E-Flight Power Sources Ask questions or read about power sources as they specifically relate to e-flight including Lithium-ion, Li-Poly, Nimh and Nicad battery packs.

Don Lien FW190 Electric Conversion

Reply
Old 02-21-2014, 06:54 AM
  #1
voodoodb
Thread Starter
 
voodoodb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flora, MS
Posts: 532
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Don Lien FW190 Electric Conversion

Need some input on an electric conversion for the Don Lien FW190. Plans show a Webra Bully 35cc on nitro. Since it will need a ton of weight up front I was going with a Quadra 50, but I will have to ruin the cowl to fit it. I'm thinking my best bet is to go electric now to keep the clean lines. W/S is 80" and should come out around 22 lbs. I would like to get at least 7 or 8 min flight and use around a 20 or 22" prop. Can someone give me a little input? Have been reading the 3d sites but am not sure these setups would be what I need for a scale warbirds.




Thanks
Doug
voodoodb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2014, 03:58 AM
  #2
chuckk2
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 1,247
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Test results for the glow version. (Starting place to get a handle on possible electric motor size, etc)
http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...ully%2035.html

A 22Lb plane at 150W per pound = 3300W, or about 4.4 HP (This supposedly allows some 3D flight)
100W per pound might be enough for typical scale like flight.
I suspect that that the FW 190 using the Webra 35 (~2.1cu inch) was a bit underpowered by my standard
(~1.2:1 power weight)
The other factor is that the larger motors are typically low KV motors, so the voltage and number of battery cells
gets into more costly ESC's and batteries. I'd likely start with 7-10 K RPM as a planning number to determine voltage, etc.
APC/Master Airscrew's web site somewhere has documented a method of calculating maximum safe RPM for a prop size.
E-Calc (propeller) can be used to help solving the various problems and calculations involved.

The club has a couple of members that have electric powered models in the general weight class you are dealing with.
They fly in aerobatic/3D competition, and use custom built motors. The costs of motors, ESC's, and Lipos is higher than I care to get into!

Last edited by chuckk2; 02-22-2014 at 04:01 AM.
chuckk2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 10:27 AM
  #3
aeajr
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,546
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Here is a fuel to electric conversion chart offered by Electrifly that may help.
http://www.electrifly.com/powersyste...brushless.html

A better approach is to use this calculator. Even if you don't want to use their motors this can give you an idea of the specs you will need.
http://www.electrifly.com/config/index.php

I don't fly anything that large but I have found the rimfire motors to be pretty good. At 22 pounds you are probably looking at a 2200 watt motor for good general flying and aerobatics or about 3300 watt if you want advanced aerobatics and vertical climbs.

Last edited by aeajr; 02-25-2014 at 10:38 AM.
aeajr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2014, 10:47 AM
  #4
aeajr
 
aeajr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,546
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Ran your numbers using Aerobatic as the target for performance on this calculator using 22 pounds and 22" as max prop size.
http://www.electrifly.com/config/index.php?step=1


Power systems for these types of planes are much more powerful that those used in Sport models. These power systems deliver nearly unlimited aerobatic capabilities, with nearly unlimited vertical flight. Power consumption is high. The size and weight of the power system is a significant part of the aircraft flying weight. Higher quality batteries are recommended for these systems.


and got two recommendations:

For 9S pack 33.3V - Need more flight time, parallel another 9S pack but be sure to account for the weight.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH]Best Combination
[/TH]
[TH][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Performance
[/TD]
[TD]Aerobatic
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Motor
[/TD]
[TD]63-62-250 / GPMG4795
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Gear Ratio
[/TD]
[TD]N/A
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Gear Drive
[/TD]
[TD]Not Required
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Propeller
[/TD]
[TD]20x10 in., Electric
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Battery
[/TD]
[TD]6400 mAh, 33.3v
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]ESC
[/TD]
[TD]SS-100 / GPMM1870
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]ESC Motor Adapter
[/TD]
[TD]Not Required
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Motor Mount
[/TD]
[TD]X-Large / GPMP1265
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Current Draw
[/TD]
[TD]66 amps
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Speed
[/TD]
[TD]61 mph
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Thrust
[/TD]
[TD]283.6 oz.
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Weight of Power System
[/TD]
[TD]63.6 oz.
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Flight Time at Full Throttle
[/TD]
[TD]3 minutes
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Watts per Pound
[/TD]
[TD]99.91
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


For 12S pack - need more flight time, just parallel another 12S pack


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH]Best Combination
[/TH]
[TH][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Performance
[/TD]
[TD]Aerobatic
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Motor
[/TD]
[TD]63-62-250 / GPMG4795
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Gear Ratio
[/TD]
[TD]N/A
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Gear Drive
[/TD]
[TD]Not Required
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Propeller
[/TD]
[TD]18x8 in., Electric
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Battery
[/TD]
[TD]6400 mAh, 44.4v
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]ESC
[/TD]
[TD]SS-100 / GPMM1870
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]ESC Motor Adapter
[/TD]
[TD]Not Required
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Motor Mount
[/TD]
[TD]X-Large / GPMP1265
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Current Draw
[/TD]
[TD]66 amps
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Speed
[/TD]
[TD]66 mph
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Thrust
[/TD]
[TD]315 oz.
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Weight of Power System
[/TD]
[TD]63.6 oz.
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Approximate Flight Time at Full Throttle
[/TD]
[TD]6 minutes
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]Watts per Pound
[/TD]
[TD]126
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Last edited by aeajr; 02-25-2014 at 10:50 AM.
aeajr is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 04:18 AM
  #5
Certifiable
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

ALL e RC is clearing out Hyperion ZS motors for half price. You should be able to repair them in the future using Scorpion bearings and shafts, since they are basically the same motor built in the same factory and Hyperion says they are similar, not DrMotor or similarly impaired visual observers oblivious to nonvisual issues. I saw one for big planes for about $90 that originally was priced at $250 or so. They also had a similarly sized Atlas speed controller at about half of retail, which is exactly the same as the equivalent Scorpion controller. I think Scorpion decided to stick with motors and speed controllers and Hyperion decided to stay with batteries and chargers. I own several Hyperion motors and they are real quality units, and nobody says that Scorpion is junk. I had a couple of my Hyperion motors apart to change from frontmount shafts to backmount shafts, and everything is super precision. There is a sky blue epoxy compound between some magnets in order to dynamically balance the outrunner bells. Top quality Japanese bearings are used, 200C magnets and wire, etc. Typical efficiency is around 90%, the highest in the brushless motor business, as good as Neu Motor or Kontronik.
Certifiable is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:26 AM.