Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
05-02-2005, 05:30 PM
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Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
I was thinking that I would start to switch over to lipos with the curcuits that balance the cells and prevent overcharging. I think there are a couple different brands. But I can't remember all the brands and sizes, I like to fly 1320 TP's currently, I think there is an Electrifly 1250 that looks ok. Has anyone tried these things?
It also seems as if the lipo makers are trying to confuse us yet again. Some of them come with built in circuits, and others just come with taps and expect the charger or an adaptor to figure it out. Yet they all claim safe charge.
It looks like Appogee and Thunder Power are using the Taps. While Electrifly and Ultra come with the circuits. Can anyone shed some light on this?
It also seems as if the lipo makers are trying to confuse us yet again. Some of them come with built in circuits, and others just come with taps and expect the charger or an adaptor to figure it out. Yet they all claim safe charge.
It looks like Appogee and Thunder Power are using the Taps. While Electrifly and Ultra come with the circuits. Can anyone shed some light on this?
05-05-2005, 08:00 AM
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RE: Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
I wouldn't say that the manufacturers are intentionally trying to confuse us. Don't forget that we're still in the early stages of the war for manufacturer dominance in LiPoly technology. Every manufacturer, to rob an expression from Greg Covey, thinks they're the center of the universe, and that their way is the best way to handle the technology. It's going to be a few more years before de facto industry standards develop. Heck, individual manufacturers are experimenting with different ways to balance the cells and provide protection, and putting them on the market to see what sells.
There's no one best way to create a "safe charge" situation. If you check cell balance on a regular basis on tapped packs, and balance as necessary, they're no less safe to charge than one with built-in protection circuitry, for example.
The best advice I can give here is to read and make sure you know that what you're buying is what you want. If you want built-in balancing circuitry, make sure the pack has it before you buy. Where your dollars are spent will determine how the technology is developed in the future. If built-in circuits cell, and taps stay on the shelves, then tapped packs will become a thing of the past, for example.
There's no one best way to create a "safe charge" situation. If you check cell balance on a regular basis on tapped packs, and balance as necessary, they're no less safe to charge than one with built-in protection circuitry, for example.
The best advice I can give here is to read and make sure you know that what you're buying is what you want. If you want built-in balancing circuitry, make sure the pack has it before you buy. Where your dollars are spent will determine how the technology is developed in the future. If built-in circuits cell, and taps stay on the shelves, then tapped packs will become a thing of the past, for example.
05-05-2005, 09:41 AM
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RE: Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
ORIGINAL: Matt Kirsch
I wouldn't say that the manufacturers are intentionally trying to confuse us. Don't forget that we're still in the early stages of the war for manufacturer dominance in LiPoly technology. Every manufacturer, to rob an expression from Greg Covey, thinks they're the center of the universe, and that their way is the best way to handle the technology. It's going to be a few more years before de facto industry standards develop. Heck, individual manufacturers are experimenting with different ways to balance the cells and provide protection, and putting them on the market to see what sells.
There's no one best way to create a "safe charge" situation. If you check cell balance on a regular basis on tapped packs, and balance as necessary, they're no less safe to charge than one with built-in protection circuitry, for example.
The best advice I can give here is to read and make sure you know that what you're buying is what you want. If you want built-in balancing circuitry, make sure the pack has it before you buy. Where your dollars are spent will determine how the technology is developed in the future. If built-in circuits cell, and taps stay on the shelves, then tapped packs will become a thing of the past, for example.
I wouldn't say that the manufacturers are intentionally trying to confuse us. Don't forget that we're still in the early stages of the war for manufacturer dominance in LiPoly technology. Every manufacturer, to rob an expression from Greg Covey, thinks they're the center of the universe, and that their way is the best way to handle the technology. It's going to be a few more years before de facto industry standards develop. Heck, individual manufacturers are experimenting with different ways to balance the cells and provide protection, and putting them on the market to see what sells.
There's no one best way to create a "safe charge" situation. If you check cell balance on a regular basis on tapped packs, and balance as necessary, they're no less safe to charge than one with built-in protection circuitry, for example.
The best advice I can give here is to read and make sure you know that what you're buying is what you want. If you want built-in balancing circuitry, make sure the pack has it before you buy. Where your dollars are spent will determine how the technology is developed in the future. If built-in circuits cell, and taps stay on the shelves, then tapped packs will become a thing of the past, for example.
If your use of the words "indistry standards" applies only to EP flight then your comments are acceptable. I wish to point out that from a battery industry point of view there are accepted Lithium battery industry standards and safety devices. You can't buy a (legitimate) cell phone, laptop, or non EP flight battery that does not comply with these standards or contain safety devices. In the early days of our EP hobby people were taking Lithium batteries and removing the safety devices to get the high discharge rates needed. The use of the term "balancing circuitry" is missleading. The only real way to balance a pattery pack for voltage and capacity per cell is when it is built. The packs with taps allow the connection of monitoring devices to insure the voltage drop per cell is within a safe range. If a voltage is detected ouside the safe range the charging process is shut down. Packs with taps allow the individual charging of each cell commonly refered to as balancing. Each cell's voltage and capacity is determined by the chemical activity inside the cell. Except by exterme measures no external activity can "balance" cells in a pack.
05-05-2005, 11:23 AM
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RE: Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
Yes, I did mean the HOBBY industry. The whole context of my post is within the hobby industry, using the terms as they're defined within the context of the hobby. (e.g. "balance" meaning making sure the cells all have the same voltage when charged). I figured that there was no need to complicate the discussion with the semantics and technicalities of the Lithium battery industry as a whole.
exeter_acres, nobody is questioning the availability of safety devices, just the fact that there are so many different ones available. Each manufacturer has their own idea of how best to make their packs "safe," if they make any effort at all. Some use taps and require manual intervention. Some have taps and require a special external gadget or charger to interface with the taps. Some use internal safety circuits. Some are designing the actual cells themselves to not allow a thermal runaway/fire situation to happen in the first place. Some have no pack-level safety considerations at all, and depend completely on the charger and end user to operate them safely.
As I said, the HOBBY industry, with respect to Lithium Polymer technology, is still working out the best way to handle the issue.
exeter_acres, nobody is questioning the availability of safety devices, just the fact that there are so many different ones available. Each manufacturer has their own idea of how best to make their packs "safe," if they make any effort at all. Some use taps and require manual intervention. Some have taps and require a special external gadget or charger to interface with the taps. Some use internal safety circuits. Some are designing the actual cells themselves to not allow a thermal runaway/fire situation to happen in the first place. Some have no pack-level safety considerations at all, and depend completely on the charger and end user to operate them safely.
As I said, the HOBBY industry, with respect to Lithium Polymer technology, is still working out the best way to handle the issue.
05-05-2005, 05:23 PM
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RE: Lipo "Safe Charge" Brands
The Great Planes packs just cut off the charge current if one cell gets too high a voltage on it... it doesn't balance the pack. I like the packs with taps, that way you can monitor the pack and balance it yourself if necessary...
