dbflier

WAS: I just tried to use the my Astro Flight Lithium Charger this morning in preparation for my Sunday flying and the charger, when plugged into my battery 12 volt power source but still disconnected from the lipo battery to be charged, just went into a discharge mode while giving out a burnt smell. I’ve used this just about 10 times, charging my Apogee Lithium Polymer 6s (wired in series of 2 3s1p 2480 ma apogees and connected in parallel to give me 6s2p 4940 ma during flying) batteries using a 12 V car battery as true 12 V power source.. and never before had this problem.

Every time I now plug the charger in, it immediately goes into a discharge mode with the cooling fan running. The charger is a brand new, Model 109 which I received just a few weeks ago from Hobby-Lobby.

I've already requested for product warranty support from Hobby-Lobby and Astro Flight and will see how this goes.. While on wait any feed back on this charger, on it's reliability and warranty will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

dbflier

Got an immediate response Sunday evening and was adviced to send unit with warranty card. this is promisingly good off the bat.

dbflier

NOW! POOF AND PZZZZZ

Fellow fliers, I don't know what your experience is with this product, but at the very least, the unit I got is a bad one and I'm totaly disappointed with its "warranty" coverage. After a long wait and spending so much on special rush postal/repair charges and tax, I finally got it back today and guess what, the moment I plugged in an Apogee 5s2p for charging, it just sparked, (I can see the spark lit through the vent holes) smoked and went on to displaying a discharge mode message.

What a piece of total disappointment!!! After this, I don't think that I'd even bother spending another cent to sent it back for repair or "warranty". Just isn't not worth it. I think, I may have to write this one off , call it a total loss and charge it to my "never again" exception list.

Picture below shows the DEAD Astro at lower righthand corner... I'n now looking for a replacement, of a similarly featured but better supported and quality charger..

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Dan

Doug Sipprell

My Feedback: (2)

Really surprised to hear you have had such a problem with the AF109. I have two of them, and I use a Radio Shack regulated 13 VDC power supply, rated at 3 amps, for powering BOTH of the AF109's at the same time. At our flying site, I bring just one of the AF109's, and power it with a DuraTrax Switching Power Supply. This PS is quite a bit smaller and less in weight than the Radio Shack PS.

Sounds like you are getting some type of dead short when you tried to power up the AF109. The discharge function normally starts only if a LiPo is connected to the charger at the time you power it up. I run three chargers off the Radio Shack PS. When I turn on the Radio Shack PS, both of the AF109s are powered up. I have no LiPo's attached and the "system" is on for hours w/o incident. In point of fact, I sometimes only use one of the AF109's to charge a pack, leaving the other "on" but available.

Your photo shows a lot of equipment connected in various ways. Not sure what all you have there. Did the problem occur when you had just the AF109 connected to your power supply and nothing else (such as watt meters, DVM, etc.) connected in anyways to the unit? Again, normal procedure as I know it is to power up the AF109, then connect the LiPo.

Sorry that I can not be any real help for you.

RD

Tony Gag Jr.

My Feedback: (124)

RD,
Can you tell me what model that Power Supply from Radio Shack is? I just bought an Astro Flight 109 charger and I want to power it while I am at home without using my 12V flight box battery.

Thanks,
Tony Gagliardi Jr.

dbflier

RD, Appreciate the feedback. It was equally surprising for me as well to see the Astro 109 fail, especially when it was good and smart at charging my lipos to peak. I had at least 10 charges going before failure. I also was very diligent in making sure all recommended procedures are followed in charging and all connectors are properly oriented and insulated. So far, I haven't experience any of this type of problem with my other chargers.

Notwithstanding, when I sent the unit for warranty-support, they shrugged at the warranty coverage by conveniently assuming a shortage had happened that caused some sensor resistors to burn and had to be replaced and repaired at cost.

To me, this is a very disappointing lame excuse as typically, under the circumstance, they should just replace the defective unit. (Like my experience with Castle Creation for instance - these guys knows how to provide good customer service and backup the integrity of their ESC products with real warranty support!) Also, to my knowledge, I could be wrong here, these type of equipment have delicate surface mounted micro components that require special manufacturing equipment making it virtually impossible to repair. I would guess they made an attempt to repair the unit which at the end of the day didn't come up to original quality standards, tolerances and caused to the unit to fail again when I got it back.

I do appreciate your insights and admire your setup and I wish you all the best with your 109. I had my charging equipment similarly on top of a table before, but since I read somewhere that these equipment and lipos are better off being used on a fire resistant-proof material, I decided to move them all on the cement flooring (organized chaos, with a fire extinguisher nearby ).

So what you see on the ground are 2 p'supply (Astro 12.5 A and Ofna Power 18A), a Celectra charger, an Eliminator portable AC 110 power unit (at the field use this with P'supply, very handy!), and a 12V battery (was used for the 109 for absolutely noise free 12 V power source). I also just got 2 additional chargers - a Pro-Peak Prodigy 2 (5s 5A smart charger) and on the way, Multiplex charger with feature similar to Pro-Peak. I must say that the Pro-peak does seem to have the smart for peak charging and I'm impressed off the bat.

Cheers. Daniel

Greg Covey

Daniel,

You are not alone in your dismay over the AF 109 charger. I have had 4 blow-outs on 3 different 109 chargers. The design is eccentric and has several documented flaws. Further, it can cause serious Lithium fires by automatically changing the cell count in the first three minutes of charge (aka Mode 1). It destroyed one of my packs before I read about Mode 1 in the manual. Always return the current knob setting to minimum (CCW) before plugging in a pack.

My Lithium 109 chargers appear to blow the "sense resistor" when I use a car battery (not connected to the car) as a source instead of using a 12v DC supply (with about 5amp delivery capability). Of course, this is done at the flying field during events when charging bigger 6s packs. Astro Bob graciously repaired my 4th blow-out for free.

Why do I have 3 of the 109 chargers when I am dismayed about their design? Because for Lithium packs that do not have a node connector on them (like many of my packs) it is the best value on the market for a 9s charger that goes to 8amps.

This generation of technology has now been replaced with balacing chargers like the 6s 10amp Skyvolt charger from FMA and the soon to be released 4s Cellpro charger for about $50. Watch for the new FMA Web site to pop up in about a week with dramatic reductions in pricing across entire product lines...including Skyvolt packs and companion products.

d_wheel

"several documented flaws"

Where can I find this documentation.

Later;

D.W.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Right here:

From: "Red Scholefield" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Re: [EFLT] Poly-Quest PCM Guard, Now the 109 Charger
Date: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:17 AM

I have been able to replicate this problem but it takes some effort. First
you start with a fully charged pack and have the current setting up to 1 amp
or so. Then you can get a false cell count. There is no way I could do it by
starting with the current set to zero and slowly taking it up to the desired
level. The Astro 109 indicates cell count so watching it during the early
part of the charge would be prudent.

Red S.
Red's R/C Battery Clinic
http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com
Check us out for "revolting" information.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Wenz" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:45 AM
Subject: Was: Re: [EFLT] Poly-Quest PCM Guard, Now the 109 Charger


> This message from Dan Wenz <[email protected]> brought to you by EFLIGHT!
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
>
> > It pays to watch the 109, I have had it suddenly jump to 4cell when
> > topping off an old charge.
>
> This leaves me with an insecure feeling - has anyone else had this
> happen with the 109?

d_wheel

This doesn't really seem to be a "flaw" in my opinion. Even so, if a person can't watch the charger for the first 3 minutes, or at least check it once after the charge has been in progress for 3 or 4 minutes, they don't have the patience or attentiveness to be using LiPo packs safely and, perhaps, should consider using round cells.

Later;

D.W.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Call it what you will, my only purpose is to alert fellow modelers that the possibility of a missed cell count exists. A product presented to the public that has the possibility of being the cause of property damage, personal injury or death is by definition flawed. Fortunately the insignificance of the R/C hobby has thwarted any real scrutiny from the CPSC in this regard.

d_wheel

Red,

I am in no way attempting to diminish your valuable contribution in this, or any other, case. I am also not a “brand loyalist”, as I have 4 different brands of LiPo chargers and know that they all have their flaws.

Having been in the electronics field and dealing with many types of batteries and their chargers for over 50 years, it is apparent to me that you are well schooled in your field. I have gleaned quite a few gems of information from your web site and your contributions to message boards. For that, I thank you!

I will have to agree that in legal terms, the condition you are referring to could be called a flaw. However, and this is for those that may not be as learned as you, the voltage difference between a fully charged 3 cell pack and a discharged 4 cell pack is very close. It is understandable that any charger could be fooled into a miscount when performing a top off of a 3 cell pack. A procedure which is not recommended or needed when dealing with lipo chemistry, I might add.

The 109 instructions state that the battery to be charged should only be connected to the charger if the current knob is in the fully ccw position. As a matter of fact, it is underlined. Since you state that you could only cause the miscount to occur with this knob advanced, the user must be operating in violation of the instructions in order to suffer the “flaw”.

In conclusion, if people will follow directions; don’t “top off” lipo packs; and/or have at least enough patience to watch the charger for the first 3 minutes, this perceived flaw can be avoided.

Dbflier, sorry if I have gotten off of your original thread, but was surprised when Mr. Covey stated that there are “several documented flaws” concerning the 109 charger. So far, the one Red mentioned is the only one I have been referred to. I am using 2 of these chargers and , knock on wood, they have been absolutely perfect. I would have to believe that yours might be from a bad run, or there is still the possibility of misuse. What do you want for the defective charger? I might be willing to take it off your hands, for a reasonable amount, in an attempt to get to the source of its trouble. This kind of mystery appeals to me.

Later;

D.W.

Doug Sipprell

My Feedback: (2)

Tony:

My appologies for not getting back to you on this. I completely missed your post, and I do not always get on RCU to the extent I do another board. The Radio Shack power supply I use has recently been discontinued. It was their Cat. 22-504, 3.0 Amp 13.8 VDC power supply. They have replaced this with a better unit, capable of higher amperage. The unit also weighs less. I don't have a number for it, but your local R/S should have the item or a Cat. number for it.

I discovered the DuraTrax Compact Switching Power Supply and am using that now for when I am at our flying site (we have AC available). It would work every bit as well at home in the "shop". The unit is capable of providing higher than 13.8VDC, something the Astro AF109 will handle well wereas the Triton charger will not. Also, the DuraTrax is considerably lighter in weight and plugs directly into the 110 VAC wall socket. Frees up a little space on my charging bench. Go to www.duratrax.com and get further info on this power supply. I paid $46.00 for mine and it has been very reliable at our club site. Still use the Radio Shack unit, now powering up to three chargers, but I have to watch for the total amperge draw. Hope this helps. Sorry again for the late response.

RD

Tony Gag Jr.

My Feedback: (124)

Doug,
No problem on the response. Thanks for the info. I will be getting either the Duratrax or the Radio Shack unit for charging at home. Doug, is this the Duratrax unit you are talking about? http://www.duratrax.com/caraccys/dtxp4300.html The 7A is enough for the AstroFlight 109?

Thanks,
Tony

Greg Covey

Tony,

It depends upon your pack capacity and cell count. If you charge 3 or 4 cell 3.2AH packs, then a 7amp supply is ok.

As you increase cell count and pack capacity, the charge current goes up until you reach 8amps with a 4-cell pack, then the maximum charge current decreases to the higher cell pack but remains higher on the 12v supply current draw.

A 10amp to 15amp 12v supply is best. I use a 5amp DC supply and limit the current to about 3amps on 3-6 cell 3.2AH packs. When using a car battery, the current can be turned up to about 8amps for 4-cell packs and 4amps for 9-cell packs.

Tony Gag Jr.

My Feedback: (124)

Greg,
Thanks for the input. I am only going to be charging 3-cell 1320mah packs so that Duratrax power supply should be fine for me.

Thanks again,
Tony