matt491

Hey everyone,
Well, as you can guess from the title,I own a blade 120SR and LOVEit.It was a great helicopter to learn on and I'm still learning on it. Ican hover it with ease and fly it slowly around the house through doorways and such without hitting things (whichI'm quite proud of, anyone who owns one of these knows it can be twitchy..)
Here's my question.I'm starting to do my research into my next rc helicopter. I'm thinking of going collective pitch and maybe outdoors only. I wouldn't complain if I could find a smaller helicopter I could fly indoors too, but outdoors only wouldn't be bad with the spring coming up soon.

For those who own and know blade heli's, what do you thinkI should do? I don't know if Ishould make the jump to a blade 400. The Blade SR and blade CP pro2 are VERY close in price. I like what I've read and seen in videos on the blade SR, butI don't know if it'll be a big enough jump,I'm fearful Imay get bored of it fast? It seems very similar to the 120sr that I currently have, just bigger.

Should I make the jump to a CP pro2? What're everyone's thoughts? (i'm also open to other brands,I just know and trust blade the best)

macz

you'll get a lot different opininions I had a blade SR sorta intimidating at first head speed is very fast...Didnt really have anywhere to fly it...I now have a walkera cb120d03..its a collective micro flybarless I say go that way it has a 3 axis gyro sorta like auto pilot...less parts to fix if u crash and its as stable as my blade msr and its a collective pitch just alot faster due to head speed..I think flybarless is the future..let the electronics do the the work will teach you better flying...look at the walkera helis...all aluminum heads Ive had a few walkeras and they are very well built.

trickdriller

I'm approaching the same situation. I was thinking about the 400, but the more I read the more I find that the t-Rex is a better heli: much more stable. Howerver, it doesn't come with the awesome radio. I may go with the 400 simply because of that. And I know there will be no getting tired of it as I understand it is really quick and can do all the 3d maneuvers you could want. PLUS, you get E-Flight's awesome customer support.

Take a look at the reviews of some bigger CP's on this site. They really are quite helpful.

Rob2160

The DX6i radio is quite good but I am going to try my best in this post to talk you out of getting a blade 400.

You can get a TREX clone that is 10 times better, for the same money - eg this one http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=10900

It has an all metal head and tail and a carbon fibre body.

The Blade 400 has a very weak plastic head and a weak plastic tail - a single crash in the blade will cost more to repair that the entire TREX kit I listed above.

My Blade 400 had massive tail vibrations and was almost impossible to eliminate.. The TREX clones are silky smooth.

Also, the Blade 400 has cheap servos that often fail and cause crashes (it happened to me)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgoztDiEZ7k[/youtube]

and this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi0rGusd8ig(his vidoe gets clear after a few seconds)

Also the Blade 400 has a cheap gyro and only a 25 amp ESC which have also been known to fail..

In your clone you can put excellent HS65 Hitech servos

A 40 Amp Hobbywing ESC (Super quality and reliable)

A much better gyro eg the Hobbyking 401 ($12)

etc.. and you will have a far superior helicopter..

Compare my Blade 400 here (before the faulty servo destroyed it)

to the Hobbyking 450 GT...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIq3EhMwe9Y[/youtube]

the 450 GT is much more powerful, more stable, more manouverable and just MUCH BETTER!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBOgMJRfopg[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Aemqguvks[/youtube]

Did I mention.. DON'TBUYa BLADE 400.. you will regret it..

You'll end up with a TREX or aclone later anyway and then kick yourself for not just getting the TREXfirst...

Trust me!

I actually like the canopy look of the blade 400, so I put that one on of my clones and it looks just like a blade 400 in the air.. it just flies much better...



This helicopter kit actually cost me just $10 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11446

I bought two kits so I have a full set of spares now also..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ_gMLF-Ssk[/youtube]

Bill Truax

Hi, I am Bill
I have a blade 400 and can confirm that it will bruise easily, I crashed and ended upwith a bent steel pin in the rotor set up and
destroyed the wooden vinyln covered rotors and it also required an upgraded tail servo. I purchased all carbon fibre blades
The strenght for  Blade for me is that the hobby shop carries  the spare parts

The blades come assembled, the Trex does not.  I  believe the Trex is a better unit

Have you checked out the reviews on  the  specific heli that you are interested in
This is a good place to start
You will find out that the CP pro is  quirky, needs upgrades and if crashed will probably have a bent rotor shaft and other problems
The SR seems to be a good unit and a fairly good choice at less than half the price of the 400
The 400 is a full 3D machine and can do all of the tricks

Have you tried a flight sim?   This might be a strong choice with the DX6i radio

The ultimate solution is the sim and then do not crash your heli

All helis will damage and the bigger they are the more damage you will do.

Good luck and fly well

Bill

Flying Fiz

Hi Matt,I agree with everything that Rob 2160 said. I have a blade 400, and a HKGT 450, among a lot of other helis.The HK 450 GT is a much much better heli than the blade 400, it is stronger (by a country mile) it is much more stable. If your not experienced with CP helis you would need to replace a lot of the standard gear on the blade before you attempted to fly it. Just one hard landing, which is something that newbies do a lot with CP helis first up (throttle down to avoid damage as with your blade 120 sr on a CP heli and it pulls negative pitch and slams it in the turf) with the blade 400 you will be in for some serious and slow repairs. The HK 450 does not seem to get damaged anywhere near as much. A hard landing and maybe a servo ball linkage has popped off.Only good thing about the blade 400 is the DX6i that comes with it.Another heli I would strongly recommend is the Walkera V400D02 - it's a 400 size full CP heli that is flybarless with a 3 axis gyro. IMHO it is the easiest CP heli to fly on the market today. You can get it up off the ground and let it hover hands off like your 120 sr. Amazing! It then zooms across the park at a real clip, and stablises itself when you pull it up.One last piece of advice, don't even think about getting the blade SR (about a 300 size cp heli) that was supposed to be the next easy step into CP helis, it's not - it's a POS is what it is! me and a lot of others were very dissapointed wih it.

trickdriller

I don't mean to thread jack, but what is the deal with the clones? They seem a bit too good to be true. I mean, a full trex quality kit for $50? What's the catch?

Flying Fiz

Hi,No catch just simply less profit taken i guess. I have a blade 400 a HK GT 450 and an Align 450 Sport. I've also ordered a HK 450 pro (same as Align pro). the HK 450 much better than the blade, but not quite as good as the Align, but not much in it. One difference is that the higher end Align electronics are quicker and smoother, when you get into serious flying, but for non 3D fliers like me if you have your HK special (with the cheap electrics) well set up and balanced they are simply amazing for the price. I bought the HK450 GT for $47.00 bought the $3.00 towerpro servos and the $12 Hobby King 401 Gyro a cheap ($25) turnigy 35 amp ESC an $13 brushless motor, so all up around $100.00 and it is better than my blade 400. For example the standard eflite servos on the blade 400 are useless and cost around $20 a pop the $3.00 HK servos perform like $40 servos. I think HobbyKing and the like are now selling so many helis world wide they can keep the price down and utilise the obvious econonies of scale. I would think they probably sell 100 clones to every Trex or blade 400, just a guess of course, but if correct you can see why they can keep the prices so low.

Rob2160

That is exactly what I thought when I read this thread for the first time http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9990427

But I bought the $29 helicopter he mentioned and it was SUPERB!

We all grew up thinking that RChelicopters SHOULD cost Thousands of dollars (as they did in the past)

Think about this.. In 1990 my first mobile phone was the size of a house brick and cost me $1800.

Now I can buy a phone the size of a matchbox for $19 and it is MUCH better...

My first laptop in 1997 cost me $5000.

Now I can buy one for $499 that is a thousand times more powerful

The power of MASSProduction..

The Clones are EXCELLENT There is no catch.. like mobile phones and computers, they can now be MASS produced and our Friends the Chinese are excellent at doing so for very little cost.

The only thing is that you have to invest time into building them and you buy all the extras, like motor / ESC / Servos / Gyro etc seperately and that is a GOOD thing because you can put QUALITYcomponents into it..

I love my clones and they fly Brilliantly. At first I was daunted by the thought of building a heli from scratch, but I lovedit so much and they are so cheap I have built 5 more simply becuase I enjoy the entire process from start to test flight...

Here is one I finished this week... The entire heli cost me around $120 to put in the air (kit plus all electronics)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpr-R9f24ws[/youtube]

And look how well it files here..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RivwKXtVSH0[/youtube]

All my clones..( All these for less than the cost of a Blade400 and a Blade SR combined)

Flying Fiz

Trickdriller,Just a few follow up comments.When I ordered my first HK clone I was expecting to be dissappointed, but I was really pleasantly surprised. Only a couple of very minor build clitches, easily overcome.A number of people have taken apart the gyros, servos etc and claim that they in the case of the gyro that its identical to the insides of a very highly regarded gyro that is always well over $100 everywhere. So i guess they are like the no-brand supermarket products. remeber that all of this stuff is made from only a small number of factories in China.

Rob2160

ha ha.. Jinx..

Rob2160

You will enjoy the Pro.. are you getting the TT..?

I did a time lapse video when I built mine

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4w7IT-1do[/youtube]

Here is the maiden flight

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9X0rYnHEDY[/youtube]

and a few weeks later with a more powerful motor...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdZGaEe02VM[/youtube]

Flying Fiz

Hi ,

No I wouldn't torture myself with a TT, I'm going the tried and tested belt.

It should be arriving today - I could be in for a late night.

Flying Fiz

Also Rob,

My company computer doesn't allow me to look at youtube stuff, so I'll have to view your clips tonight.

Rob2160

Hey Matt,

Just re read your post and have a few comments..

It sounds like you have a great handle of the 120 SR and are ready to move onto something more challenging.

I will just clarify something.. the Blade SR is in NOWAYsimilar to the 120 SR.. It is more diffucult to fly by a factor of about 200.. It is a full CP heli and the fly bar is at 90 degrees to the main rotors (unlike the 45 degree on the 120 SR)

That means it has NOnatural stability and you are working much harder just to hover the thing..

You will master it, but it is probably a bigger jump in difficulty going from the 120 SR to the SR than it was going from nothing to the 120..

I had mastered the MSR and the 120 SR also and when I flew my first CP heli it was the most humbling experience of my life..

It wil take you a VERY long time to get bored of the SR...

You have probably read my advice above,.. but seriously.. go with a TREXclone.. it is by far the best "Bang for Buck" helicopter available and don't be fooled by the cheap price.. the quality is FAR better than the Blade products..

They handle wind.. while a 120 SR is struggling in 5 mph winds I regularly fly my helis in 35 - 45 Mph winds and they handle it fine..

EG..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqVXOV_dK8g[/youtube]

and

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4rrFLyNZ8Q[/youtube]

Go with a clone.. do your research and enjoy the building process... all the help you ever need is available on youtube videos... eg MikeysRC.. ( a series of 15 videos that show you step by step how to build one)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4zJREpU7u0[/youtube]

Each video links to the next..

Flying Fiz

Matt, trickdriller,Two corrections to my post with details of components,1. I used Hextronic HXT900 servos, really good, and exceptional for the price (can't tell the difference between these and Hitec servos. 2. The Turnigy ESC (which has performed flawlessly) was only around $20 bucks.

Rob2160

No worries..

I built my pro in one sitting.. from 7pm until 4am and flew it the next morning.. I love these clones... Hope it turns up for you and enjoy!

Flying Fiz

Rob,

Did you go the TT with the pro? 

Maybe (unlike me) your good enough to land it like a feather every time, as I understand that is what the TT's require.

Rob2160

Yes I did get the TT.. It is more likely to sustain damage with a tail rotor strike but definatley does not require feather landings..

On most flights the tail will land in some longish grass and it just trims the grass like a whipper snipper with no damage at all to the tail drive

I have even planted it reasonably firmly on the ground a few times where the tail rotor cut a 1 cm deep channel in dirt and there was still no damage..

I agree the belt is probably more forgiving, but I have hundreds of flights on the TT now and have never had to replace anything due to these minor tail rotor strikes.

Plus the parts are all readily available and extremely easy to change anyway..

I have a stock of one each ofthese items (just in case - but I've not needed them yet)

(full tail assembly) http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11584

Front assembly http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11585

Rear assembly http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11553

Flying Fiz

Thanks, that's good to know, maybe next model will be a TT.

I also do a bit of lawn mowing on most landings as I alway like to fly over nice thick grass.

last time I mowed the lawn with the Blade 400 however I did a set of tail rotor gears. I think I'll repair the blade 400 and sell it.

I also strongly agree with your earlier comments about the blade SR -V- the blade 120SR, absolutely chalk and chese in how different they are.

The little msr and 120 sr are both super easy to fly and are self correcting but I don't like the pendulum effect they tend to have when you ease off on a stick input, other than that thery are great fun.  The SR was the biggest dissapointment in helicopter land I've come accross.

Rob2160

Yes, the TT is pretty cool.. it sounds very different and that is what I like about it, but I don't think there is any real difference in the way it actually flies.

My Blade 400 was a huge disappointment... I remember almost crying over it when the servo failed and it crashed.. But that disappointment prompted the research that led to the 450 clones so it had a positive ending anyway..

People just think these helis are easy to fly.. I fly in a park opposite my house and the neighbours all watch.. Over Christmas 3 different dads bought helis for their kids and I watched them all get destroyed on the first flight attempt.. (mainly co axial)

I know what you mean about the pendulum stability and I agree.. but they served their purpose at the time as a stepping stone.. and were plenty challenging at the time..(six months ago I remember struggling with the MSR) now I sit down in my lounge and fly it from room to room nose in nose out and it can still be fun..

Sorry you had a bad experience with the SR.. Mine was ok.. it had a slight tail wag but I fixed that by remounting the gyro on top of 3 pads of foam and reducing the gain as much as possible..

After my servo failure in the Blade 400 I think I had a tiny glitch in the SR servos so I didn't take any chances and replaced them with Hitech HS65 MGs.. (an expensive upgrade for a small heli but it has been great ever since)

It is definatley less capable than the 450's and barely struggles around a loop but I occasionaly fly it on calm days just for a change..

The different coloured canopy and fins made a huge difference.

matt491

WOW! I go away on business for two days and come back to a lot of reading, but a lot of GREATinfo!
Looks like when I'm ready to move up to a larger CP heli, I'll be doing a t-rex clone build. Although the idea of a build really does scare me a little as I know nothing about building these things.I just started flying them two weeks ago!
Here's my plan so far. I'm selling my 120SR and getting an MSR as I think it'll be easier to control and practice with in the house.

I did purchase a simulator as everyone recommended, I got the phoenix flight sim. Here's where I think I may have messed up..

I bought the ready to go out of the box version with the DX5e remote. Sounds like I should have just got the version with the software ONLY and purchased a DX6i seperately.....correct? Man I hate wasting money... everytime I thinkI have a solid plan, turns out it wasn't so solid. My plan was to buy the phoenix with the DX5e(whichI thought was a good remote) and then get the BNF MSR and bind it to the DX5.

Will I be okay for now with the DX5 or should I try and sell it and pick up a DX6?

Rob2160

Hi, hopefullyi can help...

The MSR and the 120 SR basically fly the same.. the MSR is a bit easier and more robust.... I have a video below where I deliberately crash it to show how strong it is..

As for radios.. the 6 is definately better than the 5 in so many ways, but one important difference is the smoothness of the joysticks.. the 6 feels silky smooth (to me) and the 5 feels spongy and imprecise ( I have tried 3 different DX5s and they were all the same)

I have used both with the MSR and the 6 wins hands down..

The DX5 is perfectly capable of flying the MSR but I noticed the tail rotor felt less responsive on the 5 by about 50% (IE significant)

If you can stretch for the 6 you won't be sorry, and it has 10 model memories so it can be used as your fleet expands.. ( it will )

Two more things..

1. If you get the MSR and a DX6i make sure you bind it in AIRPLANEmode.. the biggest mistake people make with the DX6 and an MSR is to bind it in a Heli mode..

The Blade company actually states in the MSR manual (and the 120 SR manual ) that it should be AIRPLANE mode..

2. I completely understand your hesitation at the challenge of a complete build.. but watch a few videos.. read some articles. plenty here at www.rchelicopterfun.com

let it sink in for a bit.. if you need advice of what parts to buy and what works then I'm always happy to send you a complete shopping list (all available at hobbyking.com)

I was very hesitant at the beginning but after my first heli flew and was clearly much better than my Blade 400 I just wanted to build another, and another and another... It is fun in itself to maiden flight something you put together from scratch..

Hope that helps..


the MSR vs the 120 SR

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkEJf0e5lUE[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYJVoUmPqY[/youtube]

matt491

You really know your stuff. I'm sure I'll be messaging you a lot over the next few months.
I don't mind spending a bit of extra money and getting the DX6i if it's THATmuch better. Ican always sell the DX5 online (no clue what it's worth, butI'm sure my local hobby store will).
My only hesitation with the DX6i is it seems VERY complicated with the programming and all....it makes me really nervous as I have NO clue about any of that stuff yet. If someone asked me how I got it to hover, my response would not be "aileron this and rudder that" it would probably be, "play with the sticks until it stays in one spot". I watched a video or two of some people editing the profiles on a DX6i and with all the options and numbers and what not, it seems a bit daunting!

Anyone know if I'll need an adapter to get the DX6i to work with the phoenix rc sim? I purchased the newer version that didn't require an adapter for the DX5e.

Thanks again for all the help, you don't know how much I appreciate it.

Rob2160

Glad it was helpful..

I hear you also with the programming of the DX6i but you will need that for any 6 channel heli anyway..

The DX6i has nice graphs for throttle and pitch curves, which are actually not too intimidating when you see how they work.. again, I'm more than happy to assist if and where necessary..

I'm off to bed.. its 2am here in Perth.. best to ya..