MarkInCanadaFromUK

I had the rear motor bushing issue where it came out after 2 flights, very much a pain un-screwing it pushing it back in etc, I ordered a new one and still flew it while I waited. I noticed the blade was getting more out of trim with the gain, and very unstable, i was thinking I had somehow got worse flying it as time went on...(like my golf! ), when I replace the motor today - WOW all is back to normal! It just shows how easily those motors wear out and how much effect a poor motor has on stability. - I may have cooked it using the 1800 Lipols? It did have the heat sinks on....

That was the good news.. I have noticed now that when I plug in I get a flashing Red light (4) and then Flashing Green and then Steady Green and ready to go... It appears to be OK in flight but not sure what the Red light then Green means? Anyone seen this? This is New.

I have the Acro upgrade with 3sp lipols (1200)s . PS. I am only getting about 9 mins on my Lipols, I use them on my fixed wing (brush-less setup) and I get 18 min+ What are other people getting?

3 Weeks in and loving this heli.

So in summary....

Anyone know what the Red / Green Light is?
What flight times are you getting on 3sp lipols?

Thanks.

flaXen

Love the bushing problem... I used JB Weld to keep the bushing on my (new) motor in, after my stock one died a horrible death.

If it flies ok, don't worry about the color of the status LEDs. Flashing red means waiting to init gyro. Flashing green means the gyro is initalizing. Solid green means good-to-go, and solid red (durring flight) means the motor load is at its max. You'll see it when you full-throttle or fly w/ 3D I bet, but it's not meaningful -- as long as it flies.

I use the TP 3s 1320mAH battery using the acrobatic setup and get about 3-5 flights if the flight times are 2-3 minutes. I'd guesstimate between 9 and 12 minutes of air is what I get on a full charge. I started flying using the flat blades and the acro setup, and now I'm practicing in 3D mode w/ sym blades, but I haven't done any 3D maneuvers yet.

MarkInCanadaFromUK

Thanks so much flaXen!

I will do the JB weld option too..

Your answer matches what I'm getting, In fact it gave me the courage to make a major break through in my flying! I just started flying nose in , and performed some wide fast sweeps and even a few pirouettes! I found mixing my rudder and aileron controls I can do smooth transitions and not quite ready to loop but was OK on the Idle up for a few passes... I did notice I have far more negative collective than positive so I turned them both one turn and will see what happens tomorrow.... I actually feel I am in control now... after a few weeks I can't believe what I can do, I am in that 10% that my model shop talks about (the have a sign) 10% of people that buy a helicopter succeed and do not quit.! I set my timer for 10 minutes, when I am done I actually have to remember to blink to moisten my eyes![:-]

Good luck with the 3D and let me know how you get on!

DarkWombat

Flaxen if you're going to go aerobatic, I recommend getting a lighter-weight LiPo. Yes, you'll get shorter flight times, but it will give you much-needed lighter flying weight. Also, this is what E-Flite recommends for aerobatics. Also, I suggest you go down to an 8T motor if you're still using the one from the acro kit (which is a 9T), as this will give you more torque with the blades and will help keep the heli more stable, keep your motor cooler because it's not working as hard, and improve your flight times because you're not pulling as many amps. I would get over 20 minutes of flight time with the 1320mah batt and my 8t motor, but since things were getting heavy with all the aftermarket radio equipment I added, I was an ounce over stock gross flying weight so I went down to a 900mah LiPo (that and I managed to overdischarge my 1320 pack ) and now my heli weighs a mere 10.5 ounces, and I get just over 15 minutes of good flight performance with the new pack. That and it's MUUUCH easier to fly the heli. Also, now that I've gone to Carbon Fiber blades, performance has gotten even better. They're far tougher than wooden blades (but not indestructable!) and they're lighter too so you get better performance, more rigidity, and more durability. They're the cost of two wooden blade sets, but it'll quickly pay off after you have a couple light blade strikes that would render most wooden blades unusable. With the CF blades they don't even fray, dent, or scratch (at least in my experience so far)! They'll quickly pay for themselves.

So I recommend going down to a 900mah batt, an 8T motor and some carbon fiber blades, and you should be jammin'.

Ah, tomorrow morning it shall be time to practice intense flight and working with the Idle Up. Can't wait!

DarkWombat

Mark, addressing your 4-in-1 issue:

That flashing red light (4) is normal. At this time the gyro is calibrating, so don't budge the heli or you might screw up your gyro for that flight. If you budge the heli, unplug the battery and retry. After the 4 red flashes the light goes green, indicating that the 4-in-1 has armed the motors and is ready for flight. You'll notice that if you leave your throttle stick higher than 0 throttle, move your trim up higher than 0, have your Idle Up switch on, or do any combination of these, the 4-in-1 will blink red four times to calibrate the gyro, then the LED will be SOLID RED. This indicates that the unit is not initilialized and it will not initialize until you bring the throttle stick all the way down, have your trim at 0, and have you're not in Idle Up mode. After you do this, you'll notice it blink the green LED (if I remember) a few times and then it will be solid green, indicating it is ready. You'll have to hold this position for about 5 seconds and then it will arm the motors. If you change any of these settings while it arms, you will have to repeat the motor arming process.

Those LED blinks are just the way the 4-in-1 tells you what it's doing, and the motor arming feature is another redundancy to keep you from accidently starting up the heli. To be extra safe, I recommend that after flying (and unplugging the heli battery), move your Idle Up switch to ON, so next time you go fly it will not arm the motors until you are ready to arm them, which means after you're a few feet back and you're in position, and then you can flip the Idle Up switch to OFF to begin the motor arming process.

Also, about your flight times...are you using a LiPo charger and have your settings set right? Does it have a voltmeter, or do you have one available to check battery voltage? After the charger finishes charging, check the battery voltage. It should read between 12.4 to 12.6 volts. If it's significantly lower than this (like 11.4 volts) then you probably overdischarged your LiPo one time and now it's coming back to bite you, resulting in poor performance (overidscharging increases the internal resistance of the battery so it doesn't pump out as many volts to the motors) and shorter flight times. If this is the case, you might as well kiss your battery goodbye and look for a new one, it's done for.

Also, I find that the 8T motor gives longer flight times and more consistent performance than the 9T motor included in the Acro kit. The 8T will not have as high a head speed as the 9T because of the gear ratio, but it gives more torque, and since it's not working as hard turning those blades you'll get less amperage draw resulting in less heat, and better motor life. I am yet to burn out my 8T motor or to have any issues with it, and I've been using it for quite a while now (let's just say about 8 bad crashes, just about as many main drive shaft changes, 4 sets of rotor blades and a new tail motor). I'm getting 15+ minutes of flight time with my 900mah batt, and I got 20+ minutes of flight time with my 1320mah batt.

flaXen

DarkWombat,

Hehe indeed, I've just done this. I bought a 20C 400mAH cell and a 10C 850mAH cell (PolyQuest) and just today got to test both out. OH WOW! is all I can say for the 400. My BCP nearly came off the ground when I centered my throttle trim. It flew incredibly well and made my BCP feel as if it had no inertia (as compared to the 1320 anyway). I know this will be my performance battery -- even tho its only good for one flight.

I was so impressed with the extra responsiveness and control that I even took my training gear off for the first time since my fateful 1st flight hehe.. The 850 is only about 12 or 13g lighter than the 1320 cell, but having a second (semi) long-durration battery is welcome. The 400, weighing in at only 45g, is simply incredible.. just awesome. I think I'll pick up a few more of these suckers hehe.

Oh, and that's too bad about your 1320 overdischarging -- saionara $50 . I've been careful not to do that to mine by checking the voltage from time to time and learning to identify the "land now" performance drop. I fly for no more than 3 minutes per flight on average, which I do mostly to let my main motor cool down (think I'll take your 8t 370 motor advice! heh). I noticed my BCP loses the will to fly quite suddenly when the LiPo cell gets low. As soon as I perceive that, it's the end of the flight -- period -- and so far, no battery failures...... jynx

flaXen

So here's a pic of my JB Weld'ed bushing on the tail motor. Doesn't take much.



And now it looks like I need to tweak my heat sink back to norm heheh.

StephenT

hey,

i crashed my blade but now im having a problem. Everytime i start the motor, it turns the blades but not at optimum. Basically, you hold the blades and you can turn the motor without it turning the blades. I tightened that little collet with hex screw in it and it was already tight. you can see the shafts moving but it just wont trun the blades.

Any help is really appreciated.

Thanks,
StephenT

PJSims

Did you by chance lose or break the retaining pin on the center hub?

StephenT

no

heliNate

My Feedback: (3)

If you can turn the main shaft without the blades turning then you've got a broken shear pin. Try to pull it out and see if you just get a small piece out.

StephenT

Nate


We finally figured it out. It is what you said. Now the problem is that it is broken in 3 pieces. One on each side of the shaft and one still in the shaft. I was advised by the HS guys to put a piece of wire in place of the pin. The piece of shaft that is stuck in the shaft won't come out and the head won't come off. Should I ship this thing back to Horizon?

flaXen

Stepthen: large safety pins... that's what you need. Find one that fits snug thru the shaft and you've found your source of shear pins. I snap 'em all the time. You don't want to use a copper/aluminum/brass wire -- they're too soft. You don't want to use steel -- that's too hard and you'll break the plastic parts and/or bend the shaft and grind-off teeth if the shear pin doesn't go when it needs to. The soft iron in a large safety pin is perfect for the job.

Oh.. and the head WILL come off... First, make sure the pin pieces are out, of course (use a safety pin to push it out if you can), then pull it directly up off the shaft w/o twisting, and pull until it goes. Don't be afraid of scratching the plastic a little -- you'll have to do it one way or another, and you have to use more than a finger to do the pulling. Your main shaft, where the retaining pin goes, probably has a nasty burr on it. Sand that down before you try to pull the shaft out of the heli, if you needed to.

Also, don't be one of the 90% hehe... the 90% that gives up so quickly. You WILL crash. It'll happen... not much you can do about it but learn from the experience and make use of that CA glue... I plowed my BCP into the ground the other day, snapping the skid and the 2 rear skid mounts. Glued it and flew the next day.. even got a video of one of the flights. Heli's are a love/hate relationship...

chickenx5

How do i stop my BLADE CP from glitching? Sometimes when im flying it and land it, when the blade is stopped, it will go about a 1/4 throttle by itself for about 2 seconds than stop, sometimes you can see it happen in the air also. my battery is charged, my reciever is chargerd, and the antena is tight but i can unscrew it with my hand, so i don't know what can cause it. What should i do, ? it makes it nearly impossible to fly.

3dandpatternflyer

flax

It is my heli and my dad StephenT is trying to fix it. So pull harder on the head and it will come off. If I can get the head off then I can see to punch out the broken pin that is stuck inside.

DarkWombat

I've had my share of crashes too...don't give up!! I've gone through two complete main frame rebuilds, who knows how many skids and rotor blades, over 6 main shafts, two canopies, a tail motor and a battery brace and now I've installed an aftermarket radio system...but I'm still at it and I'm better than ever. The more repairing you do now, the more confident you'll be with your heli later and the more you'll understand it. When I first started out I was so paranoid that I wouldn't let the heli get above 3 feet off the ground. I couldn't hover and I could just skid. Now I understand my heli and we're good buddies, I let him (his name is Jasper ) hover about 2 feet from me, I walk circles around him, take walks in the park with him, and I even take him to school with me and fly in the mornings before class starts. Let's hope you're not as crazy as I am, but the point is that the more you respect and care for your heli, the better the experience you'll get.

Oh, and about the sheer pin, I'm using a very small, thin nail that fits perfectly. I guess this isn't the best idea though, but I've positioned the nail so that the tip of it is poking out less than a milimeter out of the hole on the other side of the plastic hub that fits over the shaft, so it's relatively easy to remove and there's a little give.

And the way I overdischarged my LiPo was from bench running the heli! I checked my voltage at 10.6 volts before I did some more motor work and revolution mixing (this was after I converted my radio system to my JR 6102) and suddenly the motor speed really started going down. I checkd the voltage and it read under 8 volts! Waited 15 minutes and it went back up to 8.99 volts by just letting it sit outside to cool down, but after that I've never trusted that LiPo and it hasn't worked as well. If I was flying with it I would have notice batt performance drop well before it went ctirical. So if you're benching your heli, be extra careful because you won't notice that performance drop soon enough before it's too late!

Anyways, good luck!

chickenx5

anyone?

flaXen

I just replied to that post in the host forum. Check it out :P

Wombat! That's a good bit of advice about the LiPo.. hadn't thought of that...

hehe my BCP damage list is pretty good, but I'm still on my first set of Tx AA's, so I know I've only got so-many flight hours... numbering less than 8 heheh. I've had to straighten my main shaft 4 or 5 times, having no replacement... It's one worn-out old fart of a gear now -- a third of its teeth are 75% gone, and the rest are between 50% and 25% -- still flies well. Hehehe I didn't get my BCP out of CP mode quick enough after it last crashed and I saw it scooting along the ground a bit as the drive gear, having no skids to protect it, happily ground itself away on the asphalt... Indeed.. I do believe it's time to replace it heh...

Oh.. and Wombat is right.. The more you crash and repair this sucker, the more you'll learn about how it works and the more confident you become at flying it. I'd say that today I'm 100x more confident behind the BCP's controls than the day I got my BCP.. the day I smashed it into the ground pretty good for the first time... hehe... Having repaired it, and still running my frankenstein'ed stock blades, I'm not afraid of crashing it again at all.. I even had a crowd of kids watching when I plowed it this last time, and they loved the show tho!

oooooh.. Coincidentally, on that last crash, I didn't have hardly any blade damage. I was running my glassed symmetrics, but what I think saved me was my modified training gear. All 4 legs went flying, and because the ping-pongs won't come off the support shaft any more, the blades must have grabbed them and all the high-energy forces were transferred to my skids (and skid mounts) instead... It was a pretty good wreck heh...

3dandpatternflyer

Flaxen


It worked! My dad pulled very with alittle twist and the head came off and he was able to get the remains of the pin out with a fine punch. Medieval technology works! Thanks alot!!! I have my future MOM looking for a safety pin..

PJSims

It's what Nate said? Wait a minute...I'm the one who suggested that it was a broken pin. Jeeze, give credit where it's due

3dandpatternflyer

pjs


When my dad read your post, he believed the pin was intact because it was sticking out both sides of the shaft. Yes you spotted the problem first and we both appreciate it . I was thanking Nate about how to get the rotor head off. BOTH You guys were more helpful than the LHS I got it from.

StephenT

Guys


Thanks for all your help! RCU these forums are great! I don't have a LHS here in Sebring. I have to travel 100 miles to Orlando to get stuff. But advice here is at my finger tips.

flaXen

hehe Anything to get a fellow noob heli pilot in the air and confident! Speaking of...

Today I flew seriously without my training gear :O Lots of fun! Heheh... I ran my super-light battery and no training gear and did a few circuits around the parking lot and practiced more hovering. I actually had a hard time getting it to land 'cause it was so light, but all went well and it was a great day to fly -- no wind for a change! hehe

StephenT & 3D -- 'grats on getting that head off! Now for the repairs! Good luck, and good flying! Just ask if you have any other maintenance questions.

rcflyerdave

the head will be hard to get off if you over tighten the main shaft coller as to gouge it a little.sand it when you get it off

DarkWombat

Oh wow this morning was a doozy. I had a great flight for 8 minutes, practiced more hovering and slow flight in the field, and then I decided I was ready for it and I got the heli up about 20 feet in the air and jammed the throttle and forward cyclic. Wow, that heli takes OFF! It was across the field in about 5 seconds, traveling at around 25-30mph I think, it gained easily another 30 feet of altitude and this was all at 80% throttle (my pitch curve for normal mode limits max throttle at 80%). Steered it back and brought it home, took another 2 passes and was totally amazed. I then brought it back a final time, hovered it right in front of me and then landed spot on. Beautiful!

I decided to practice a bit more, so I brought the heli up again and went for another high-speed pass, things were looking good but it was getting harder to control (winds started to pick up a little and I was wearing out the battery) so I started bringing in the heli to land it again, and I noticed about 3 people walking across the street, totally amazed at this little heli. I glanced at them for no more than 1 1/2 seconds. When I looked back at the heli, it was doing the dreaded forward nose dive of doom. I panicked and pulled back on the stick while cranking the throttle to even out, but it was too late. Once again, the heli nosed in. However, this time I was lucky, since I pulled back early enough the left skid took most of the impact while the blades slowed down (when I realized it was gonna crash I throttle down immediately) and the blades had enough time to fold instead of damage anything. I also broke the ball on the blade grip that attaches to the pitch link, so I have to repalce that now too.

Anyways, as amazing as this heli is, it's a lesson for you all: DON'T TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE HELI! It only takes one second, even a fraction of a second, in which you take your eyes off and you lose it. That's all. And it only takes one blade hitting the ground or something else one time to break your heli or cause you to lose all control and crash. I know I've learned from this lesson, and I was lucky (and this was my third nose-in crash so I had a better sense of how to pull out of it) that this time I didn't snap any rotor blades, break my canopy or screw something else up.

So that's that. I tried using the Idle Up but my settings were off for the tail motor mixing for this mode so the heli made nasty right spins so I had to go back to Normal mode. I'm going to check those mixing settings again and work out the kinks there and soon I'll be flying in Idle Up mode and working on Idle Up to Normal mode transitions. Next thing after that is actual aerobatics!