rotarydoc

Hi all,

Just got home from the LHS a little while ago, with a brand spanking new Blade 400! All I can say is WOW!! I am impressed with it's size, it's quality and attention to detail, and overall appearance, packaging, manuals, and everything else...

I can't find anything I don't like yet! What an improvment/step up from the CP Pro!

I am charging batteries, I am even impressed with the balance charger, had no idea it was that much more sophisticated over the CPP one, and even has a cooling fan! I just got done looking over it carefully, and checking all the fasteners for torque, loose screws, etc....all appears to be in very good shape, no problems found so far... haven't hooked up a pack to check all the servos, cyclic, tail rotor, etc, yet...

Per someone's tip, I clipped the little spur off of the bottom of the tail stabilizer...so it won't snag on stuff as much.

If this thing flies even half as good as it looks, I'll be hooked!

Anything else I need to look over that comes to mind on this brand new bird?

Can't wait to fly it tomorrow, but I'll probably spool it up just a little in the house later on when I get the batteries all charged...just to check motor/ESC operation, etc, not to even attempt to hop or hover it at all...gotta wait until I have LOTS of room for that!

Thanks, and I welcome all suggestions and comments, I value your opinions very much!

Glenn

PaulG-RC

I'm also impress with the blade 400.
Yesterday I finally got out in the park with my brother and his new Blade 400 that I sort of altered a bit since he really liked my T-Rex

Anyway he found it to be much harder to fly then expected after flying the Lama v4.
on the third battery after he had been trying to hover I took over to do a circuit and it flew ever so nice.
Doomed [&:] after 6 full circuit I sort of lost track of time and at one point it lost power to the point that it was in a nose down approach and I could not level it so I had just enough time to cut the power and landed on the hard side [] bent the main shaft,feathering spindle a boom support and stripped the elevator servo, the blades are ok ..that I was amazed.
Now I installed 3 HS55 servos and still need to pick up the main shaft and spindle to complete the repair.

It will fly again soon but I will be very carefull on the timer.

rotarydoc

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply, and interesting, but sad story on the crash! I am hoping that the B400 will be quite a bit more stable and a little easier to fly than my current heli, a CP Pro... almost everyone says it will be more stable, and more fun/satisfying to fly.

I suppose I will find out soon enough...going to go flying tomorrow with it, and see how it does...I am not an experienced pilot by any means, just doing basic hovering and a bit of forward flight, tail in, and nose in, back at me, with the CPP.

I'm sure it's going to take a couple of packs just to get a feel for it and trim it out, I am not expecting too much on the first couple of flights!

I'll be your brother did find it a tad more difficult than a coaxial...a totally different world!!

Take care, and thanks again for the reply and story, happy flying!

Glenn

evdreamer

With the motor unplugged push the tail really fast and see what way the tail blades pitch to. Check gear mesh and the tightness of the belt. After a couple of flights check the belt again to make sure it has the same tightness. Chcek for blade tracking and binding. It wouldn't hurt to rebind it. Check the head setup. It isn't that much different than the CP pro for concepts, but there are more parts.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey Nick,

Thanks for the setup tips, I just got done spooling it up just a little on the kitchen floor...all seems good so far, I have correct rotation of everything, correct cyclic inputs, throttle cut works, I got the sequence of the ESC/gyro intialization down, and I did check the gyro/tail rotor action, and it's working like the book says, a quick left yaw moves the tail with right rudder...and the belt tension looks good so far.

Looks like I got a good one to start, hopefully it will fly well tomorrow...I just hope there's not much wind, I would like to try it out first outside, before I take it to the shop. I only have two batteries, so all I'll probably get done is just some initial set up and trimming out, and maybe a little hovering in.

I got my homemade training gear trimmed to fit properly, I just hope it holds up, I only used 1/4 inch dowel rods...I'll have to try to take it easy on the hard landings for a bit, until I get the gear from Heli Hobby next week...

Well, wish me luck tomorrow, I may post before I go out, if I have any other questions...

How is the Belt CP rebuild coming along?

Take care, and thanks!

Glenn

SeaComms

Good luck Glenn with the maiden flights

I would also recommend tonight to have a look at the head setup, specially the pitch settings - I found mine were a fair way out, giving me -6 degrees pitch at low throttle in normal mode as oposed to -2 degrees like it should be.

Also, I would recommend adding some expo to the aile, elev and rudder to start, say +25% just to tame it down a little. I have also adjusted the pitch and throttle curves to 'flatten' them out a little to smooth out the pitch changes while I get used to it.

Have the fingers crossed for ya, Dave.

Coyote64

I agree soften it up through the expo to ease yourself in.

Order metal geared servos because your going to need them, its inevitable, even though i too am very impressed with it, i would be a liar to say that the stock eflite servos are fine. They arnt they are junk, strip too easy so upgrade to metal ( i used hitec ) even though they are a lot more expensive its money well spent. If you do dont forget to reverse all the servo settings in dx6i

Apart from that though its a great little heli that is worth the money just for the radio gear alone

Happy flying

jp473

So true!

rotarydoc

Thanks guys,

I did indeed soften up the expo on the aileron and elevator, I'll see how tail is when I start out...I was a step ahead of ya, I did that last night! I just got done taking about 25 digital pictures of the head, tail rotor setup, and almost every angle of the heli for future reference, WHEN I do crash! (not if!!)

seacomms, I also just got done checking the blade pitch in normal mode, and it's not perfect, but very close, I have about 0 pitch on the low side, and about 10 on the high, I'm gonna start with that...the only thing I haven't done yet is check tracking, I'll take a look at that a a bit later, after it's had a couple of batteries through it, and everything gets "seated in" so to speak.

Yea, everything I have heard says the servos are trouble, sooner or later...is it usually the gears that strip when they go? Should I grab the two gear sets they have at the LHS tonight in the meantime, until I get metal gear servos? The only thing that scares me is the possibility of a servo failure CAUSING a crash, instead of the other way around...

Just got done test fitting the homemade training gear, it looks like it should work fine, don't see any issues with that, except that the center block is bigger than I would like, I don't THINK it will be too much weight for the 400 to lift comfortably??

Having a minor issue with the balance charger, I am trying to top off the pack that I spooled up the heli with last night, and it's just not finishing the charge, it's been going for an hour and about the same last night...the cooling fan is cycling on and off, but the lights refuse to go out...dunno what's up with that? Maybe because I didn't fully discharge the pack first? Just took it off the charger this minute, and the voltage is 12.55...should be OK...

Anyways, I have zero wind outside, I guess someone up there is looking out for me! So off I go!

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement!!

Glenn

evdreamer

Good luck. I think once you get past the different sounds from the CP Pro and get a couple of hovers in you will do just fine. I am pretty much done on the Belt CP except for the head assembly. I am still waiting on parts that should be here next week. Your battery is pretty close to being fully charge. That is 12.63V. You could get those gears, they would be cheaper than new servos. If you still think the servos will fail in flight go ahead and upgrade.

I just got my blades from GrandRC. And it only took 3 days from California. Now I need my other parts. Four days and counting.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey Nick,

Thanks for the reply. Well, in a word, I am IMPRESSED so far, I basically hovered and trimmed it out, and cut it pretty short, didn't want to stress the batteries too much, I kept it at about 6 1/2 minutes, and some of that was on the ground, not even flying.

The thing is fairly intimidating, compared to the CPP! Once I got it stable and out of the rotor wash, it was extremely stable, even though the wind had picked up quite a bit. I can now clearly see the advantage of a belt driven tail, this thing has lightning quick tail response!

I also now see how a heading lock gyro is SUPPOSED to work, my goodness, the tail on this thing is dead locked, 100% of the time, none of the drifting I have more or less been compensating for on the CPP. I am just thinking that it's more the motor driven tail than the gyro itself on the CPP...I don't know.

I went to the LHS and got another 2100 Mah pack, now I have 3...I almost have to have that many to get any practice with the heli.

I just measured the voltage on the pack I ran earlier, and it's at 11.8 volts after the flight, that should be a pretty good cushion, yes?

Getting ready to head up to the shop, and fly it around inside, the wind has picked up considerably since early this morning...I feel more comfortable with it in calm conditions, at least for now, until I get a little more used to it.

Well, after I ran the two test packs on the B400, I was testing the CPP, and promptly crashed it. I have done very little outdoor flying with it, and I guess I got a little carried away, and the next thing I knew it was going backwards, tilted to the right, and what do I do? Give it more right aileron!!! DUH! Part of the learning curve I guess. It's not too bad, looks like it's limited to the blades, and the landing gear. I spun up the shaft without blades, and it seems to run pretty true...

Live and learn, and I guess if that's my first crash, I'm not doing too bad...at least it wasn't the BLADE 400 !!!

I also think that having the B400 now has made me a little more complacent on the CPP's safety!

Get back at ya later on , Glenn

evdreamer

My voltage after a flight is around 11.2V so you have plenty of cushion. The belt drive is night and day over a tail motor. I also have three batteries for the Belt CP and I can get 5-7 flights a day with good weather. That makes the learning curve a lot shorter.

Nick

Coyote64

Yeah id get a few sets of spare gears, its always them that strip, but get metal as soon as possible to save $ in the long run.

I havent heard of servos failing under flight conditions, its just when they crash they strip. But if you dont spot it then your in bother in flight. This should not happen if you do normal start up checks of testing servo travel before taking off and your visual check.

Swapping the gear is really easy just 4 very small screws on servo case and the shell comes off and the gear just pull off. If you go down this route

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

I might already have servo problems...let me run this by you. Just got back from running 3 packs through the B400, this thing flies like a dream compared to the CPP!!! Unreal amount of power, tail control, and stability, once I got adjusted to the large amount of noise and airflow. This thing is very, very addicting!

Now, here's what happened...the first two packs went down without a hitch, no issues, just doing minor trimming etc. When I put the 3rd pack in, and (admittedly did not check all the servo travel, swash, etc...I need to start doing that) and went to lift off, something wasn't right...on closer inspection, the swash was tilted backwards, causing a rearward tilt on the rotor disc on takeoff...darn good thing I noticed it, I could have had a face full of rotor blades!!

Got it back on the bench, looked it over, no damage, I had not had a crash, just one sort of hard landing, but not very bad, really. Looked over the radio settings, all was good. The swash was still tilted back a good amount with all the trims centered. The only thing I could figure to do was to center the servos/trims, and reposition the elevator servo arm on the servo to get the swash level again. So, that's what I did...and it is fine now, flew the whole pack through it, no issues?

Do I have a servo failing already?

I guess I should start researching metal gaer servos? Hi tech seems to be the popular replacement, any idea of the model number or cost? Do I need to get a set of all 4?

Thanks again guys!

Glenn

PS I LOVE THIS HELI !!

Wolfpackin

Be very careful with what you just did!

If you did strip a tooth or two in the servo and then retrimmed the servo away from that failure, you might not have a problem until you make an aggressive input that turns the servo gear back to the problem area. If that happens you will have an in flight failure.

I would suggest that you pull the elevator servo and open it up. Chances are if you stripped a gear it will be the second one down from the top. So you won't really have to disassemble much. Just open the servo and pull the top, drive, gear off. Then take a close look at the next gear.

You can do it, it's not hard but will save you a tremendous amount of grief if it prevents a failure.

Coyote64

Yes sounds like a stripped servo, you should not fly until you strip the servo down and look formissing teeth. A stripped gear replacement is cheap compared to crash resulting

The servos from Hitec are HS65MG

Best to swap all four, but reverse all settings as eflites are all backwards compared to others

They cost me £20 per servo ($40 ish) american

Yes they are expensive but basically indestructable

Wolfpackin

The HS65's are not digital and are great for cyclic.

I would go digital on the tail servo:
Cheap but pretty good- Spektrum DSP75 $20
Moderate and better- Futaba S3154 $35
Getting up there, really good- Futaba S9650 or S9257 $50ish
Big bucks, excellent tail servo- JR 3400G $75

rotarydoc

Hey Coyote and Wolf,

I have to agree, something must have happened inside that servo to cause it to have to be reset like that. I went up to the LHS, and got a couple of sets of gears...I'll be changing/inspecting those tonight. He also had the HS63MG's in stock. They do go for about $40 each at the store, I probably couldn't do to much better mail order.

Now, I have a couple of questions regarding replacing the servos with the Hitec ones... are the connectors going to fit in the Spektrum receiver without modification? In other words, are they a direct plug in, except for the reversing in the radio? Do the servos themselves need any mods to fit in the B400 frame? Are the servo horns from the B400 going to fit the hitecs, or do I need to use/modify the ones that come with the hitecs? And finally, is there going to be alot of setup involved in getting the heli back to it's current (excellent) flying form? In other words, am I looking at a lengthly setup involving adjusting linkages, ball ends, sub trims, main blade pitch, etc. to achieve a level swash and stable heli once again?

LOL, I can see why evdreamer has his statement about how money keeps disappearing since he started this hobby!! I just bought the heli last night, and two Eflite 2100 mAh batteries, now I'm looking at right about another $130 !!

That's OK, from what I have seen of this heli so far, it's well worth it, I just wish I had gone straight from the CX2 to this, and bypassed the CP Pro altogether!!

Thanks again, you guys are the greatest!

Glenn

Wolfpackin

Yes.

Yes, but actually most modify the mounting area so the servos fit. They're a little too big.

No, yes. You'll use the Hitec horns and will probably have to cut off the extra length and possibly the extra arm(s) if you don't use the single arm.

Ummm, kinda. If you do it right you'll probably find that the heli gets even better than it was. But it is a bit of work.
I can't two finger type the whole thing. My best advice is to watch the Finless Bob video's on Helifreak, CCPM Setup Part 1 & 2.

jp473

I put HS56HB (about $22.) in my B400.
Not metal but a much tougher plastic.
The servo mount has 2 tabs on it.
Just clip one off and they pop right in.
You can upgrade with a metal gear swap later if you need to.

rotarydoc

Thanks for the info as always guys!

However, this thing REALLY has me scratching my head!! OK, I took the stock servo apart, and checked the gears...they are definately NOT stripped. I put new gears in the servo anyways, I already bought them, might as well...

Centered the trims, and the swash, and reinstalled the servo, and the elevator arm. All is good...

Check cyclic, elevator, aileron, everything is rosy...

Power everything down, good to go, right?

Power it back up to check one more time...and the swash immediately goes way FORWARD this time, and is stuck there...when I say stuck, the elevator still works, but when returned to center the swash is stuck way forward. It has much less travel to the forward position, and plenty to the back...when it's pushed forward, the elevator arm travels so far, it hits the canopy mounting post...

I believe this is strictly an electrical failure of some sort, the mechanical aspect of the heli didn't change by powering down/up the heli...

When I look back on when this started, the heli was flying fine all the way to the end of the 2nd pack of the day...when I put the 3rd pack in, it immediately started acting up...

It's like the servo loses it's centering, and gets way out of whack...

I hope it's not a TX/RX issue, but all else is fine except the elevator servo...

The biggest problem is, it is very intermittent, now I can't make it act up at all...

I'm contemplating going to the LHS and getting a new stock servo, to see what happens...

I don't know what else to do, I would really like to fix this issue, rather than throwing a whole new set of servos at it, and possibly still have the same issue, ya know?

I think getting a new stock servo might be my best (and cheapest) bet... I know this thing is under warranty, but what am I going to do, send the servo in and wait 3 weeks for a new one?

I don't know what the LHS that I bought it from will do to help me out, I guess I should at least ask them...

I don't mind spending the $16 on the new servo, if it takes care of the problem, and I'm sure I will still eventually go with the HS65's later on...

As always, thanks guys!

Glenn

Wolfpackin

Glenn,

That's probably what I would do.
It's the cheapest solution, to get another stock servo.

If that fixes your problem I would call Horizon on Monday and tell them exactly what happened and that you bought a new servo and the problem went away. At the very least they should send you another servo and you'll have a backup.

You could also talk to your LHS and see what they'll do for you. If they're a good shop they should give you a new servo and deal with Horizon directly. At least that's what I hear...LOCAL hobby shop for me is non-existant, unless you consider 100 miles local.

I have dealt with Horizon on many occasions and they have been great.
If you get a tech that's not being cooperative, hang up and call back. Make sure you're not talking to the same guy and tell them you are completely unsatisfied with the last tech you spoke with and tell them your story again. It's all about buzz words and insisting that you did nothing to cause the problem and you're sure it's a defective part.

Then when you're ready and have a better understanding of CCPM setup, go ahead and get upgraded servos.
I know it's a lot to take on at this point in your heli career.
It will come!

evdreamer

Glenn,

I went into the LHS one day and thought the CX would be fun. Had a few crashes, then I discovered RCU. I asked a few questions started experimenting with the CX then later experimented with the CP Pro. Then I got the Belt CP with no intent on upgrading it then ended up doing it anyways. Now I misplaced a lot of money, but I am having a lot of fun and met a lot of great people.

Nick

SeaComms

Hey Glenn, that is ts exact same failure I had on the Aileron servo. It changes its centre position at random. If I put a load on mine it would drive bout 1/4 turn too far and create this as its new centre. I could get it to do the same if I pressed down on the servo at the horn mounting screw (with it sitting on the bench).

HS-65's are now installed........

rotarydoc

Hey Dave,

I was scanning some of the other forums, and came across your post regarding installing the HS-65's....seems there is a fair amount of modification to get them to fit...I also stumbled across another thread and learned about the JR mini heli servo set, which uses JR DS285 servos, which are apparently a drop in install on the B400...

But, they still use nylon gear sets, so someone else posted that they make them in a metal gear version, which would, I would think, would be more desirable in the long run...

The dimensions on the specs for the DS285MG (metal gear) look very promising, they are about .020 wider than the stock Eflite, but it looks like there is just about that much extra room in the rear servo mounting area...

They run about $48 each, not much more than the Hitecs...

Any commnents, ideas, suggestions?

I am most likely going to go the the LHS today and get a stock Eflite servo for the time being, I still have not been able to reproduce the strange servo quirk, I don't want a servo induced crash this early in my B400 experience!!

As always, thanks so much everyone!

This forum and it's members are the greatest, don't know what I'd do without you guys!

Glenn