Struggling with single rotor basics V2
12-19-2009, 11:54 AM
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Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Dear collective, this is the continuing saga of [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6807677/tm.htm]THIS[/link] thread which detailed (in over 10,000 posts) the struggle to master single rotor basics. While this thread does address the common issues experienced while learning to fly, it ended up being meeting place for a bunch of strangers that end up as great internet friends. Please feel free to use this thread to continue saying HI, staying in touch, asking questions, posting pictures, bragging about accomplishments or even venting about rough times. We welcome everyone with open arms here.
12-19-2009, 12:06 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Update on the new Gaui 255.
Man this thing is going to be tough to build. Finding servos that "fit" is proving to be difficult.
The first set of servos I tried were too wide to fit between the AIL / PTC servo mounts. The second set fit between the mounts but the way the heli is designed, they hit the upper frame. Not too sure what servo is going to have an overhang that is going to work with this frame. May have to dremel the frame or space the servos back.
Hitec HS45HB does not fit.
MKS DS480 does not fit.
Hextronic MG14 does not fit.
Futaba S3103 does not fit.
Hitec HS65MG does not fit
Hextronic HTX 900s do not fit.
Hitec HS55 fits but is a crappy servo.
E-Flite DS75H fits but is worse than the HS55.
I am tempted to take the Hyperion DS09 SCD servos out of my FES and put them in the 255. I don't fly the FES because of the auto tip feature... hmmmmm..
Later that night..................................
I did get the DS09s in the frame but they are not an ideal fit either. Even with spacers, the servo horns are nearly touching the frame. This also puts the linkages on a slight angle. I could run a thicker spacer but I am maxed out on the bolts they provided. I am not sure why they did not make this mount adjustable like the Beam E4 or Furion.
I will be really interested in finding out what servo they did design this heli around.
After getting the DS09s in the frame I was a bit worried about having full travel on the front servos without hitting the frame when the arms are in their full up position. I set the pitch to 10° and then tried setting cyclic to 8° but the swash itself was binding on the main shaft. The swash will not physically tilt more than probably 7 1/2° before the main shaft and bottom of the swash contact each other. To insure no contact with the swash and main shaft, I set cyclic for 7°. With those settings, at full pitch and full back cyclic, the front servo arms hit the frame pretty hard. I do realize that this is an area that will probably not get used that much but it can still happen. I reduced pitch to 9° and it is a little better but still contacts. The frame or servo arms will need to be clearnaced.
Here is a picture of the area in question at 10° pitch and 0° cyclic. Add any cyclic to the mix and you are hitting.
Here is a picture of the DS09 installed. Notice how close the servo arm is to the frame even with the spacers behind the mounting tabs. This complicates the issue in the last post. If the servo sat further back, the arm would be further away from the upper radius in the frame and would have more clearance.
I am currently setting the tail up on the Gaui 255 with a Gaui GU210 gyro and Hyperion DS09 GMD servo. The tail control linkage on the 255 is pretty aggressive. Small inputs make large changes in the tail blades. I moved the ball all the way in on the servo horn (6mm I believe) and adjusted the limit pot on the gyro. It will not let me run beyond about 75% on limit.
.................................................. .....
IT IS ALIVE!!!!!
It is VERY reactive.
It is VERY fast.
It does mild 3D like crazy!
I got none of it on video...
As usual, I had camera issues. I grabbed the good video camera too but got three pitch pumps into the flight and ran out of tape.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XRSONzEuI[/youtube]
I ended up reprogramming the tail servo to 45° from the default 50° which helped get the gyro limit just above 80%. I need to get some more flights on it to evaluate the tail control and piro speed. IMO, the tail is a bit fast right now. Gain is set at 40% on my DX7 using gear end points.
Swash mix ended up at 50% AILE, 57% ELEV and 37% PIT for 7° cyclic and 9° pitch.
Right now I am tail heavy with a Zippy Flightmax 800mAh 3S 20C. When I get the XT60 connectors, I can get the Turnigy 1000mAh 3S 30Cs installed and it will balance out very well.
I was not allowed to fly it any more at the dome last night due to the carbon blades. I am going to try to paint those white today and fly it again tonight.
A couple other things to note. The blades were labeled stating that you NEED to balance them. I popped them on my scale and found one blade weighed 9.01g and the other 8.90g. There was a lot of flash on the heavy bladed that I removed with some 300 grit sand paper. This dropped the weight to 9.00g. I cut a piece of electrical tape that weighed .1g and found it needed to be at the very tip of the light blade to get it to balance like the heavy one.
The head spools up crooked but straightens out once at speed. I am not sure if the dampeners settled in transport or what. They did provide hard spacers or replacements for 3D which I might have to try.
There is a small vibration that I need to chase down which is likely in the head due to the above mentioned issue.
Things got warm after a 4 min flight. The Zippy 800mAh 20C was quite warm. I think the 1000 mAh 30C should do better. The motor and ESC were both warm but not to the point of being too concerned. It ran cooler at 100% than it did at 80% throttle.... although this could have just been the heli breaking in and getting loose.
As you can hear, the motor is LOUD!! Mine came with the mesh a little loose which I tightened up a bit after the first flight. The noise was still there. The motor appears to have the same dimensions as the 4800kv and 5600kv motors. It is the same colors and has the same laser etched logo on the bell.... but instead of having the kv of the motor etched under the Gaui logo, there is a sticker covering that area that says 3400kv. I wonder what it says under that sticker... hmmm...
The landing gear is nice and soft... It looks a lot like the 200 landing gear but larger... the big difference is in how much it flexes. I think it is going to be very resistant to breaking.
The carry case is SWEET. The canopy is so awesome looking from the front. a cross between a Beam E4 and Vibe 50 canopy. There were several guys at a time last night that would come over and ask "what heli is that???" Everybody liked it. I cant wait to get it out tonight.
Man this thing is going to be tough to build. Finding servos that "fit" is proving to be difficult.
The first set of servos I tried were too wide to fit between the AIL / PTC servo mounts. The second set fit between the mounts but the way the heli is designed, they hit the upper frame. Not too sure what servo is going to have an overhang that is going to work with this frame. May have to dremel the frame or space the servos back.
Hitec HS45HB does not fit.
MKS DS480 does not fit.
Hextronic MG14 does not fit.
Futaba S3103 does not fit.
Hitec HS65MG does not fit
Hextronic HTX 900s do not fit.
Hitec HS55 fits but is a crappy servo.
E-Flite DS75H fits but is worse than the HS55.
I am tempted to take the Hyperion DS09 SCD servos out of my FES and put them in the 255. I don't fly the FES because of the auto tip feature... hmmmmm..
Later that night..................................
I did get the DS09s in the frame but they are not an ideal fit either. Even with spacers, the servo horns are nearly touching the frame. This also puts the linkages on a slight angle. I could run a thicker spacer but I am maxed out on the bolts they provided. I am not sure why they did not make this mount adjustable like the Beam E4 or Furion.
I will be really interested in finding out what servo they did design this heli around.
After getting the DS09s in the frame I was a bit worried about having full travel on the front servos without hitting the frame when the arms are in their full up position. I set the pitch to 10° and then tried setting cyclic to 8° but the swash itself was binding on the main shaft. The swash will not physically tilt more than probably 7 1/2° before the main shaft and bottom of the swash contact each other. To insure no contact with the swash and main shaft, I set cyclic for 7°. With those settings, at full pitch and full back cyclic, the front servo arms hit the frame pretty hard. I do realize that this is an area that will probably not get used that much but it can still happen. I reduced pitch to 9° and it is a little better but still contacts. The frame or servo arms will need to be clearnaced.
Here is a picture of the area in question at 10° pitch and 0° cyclic. Add any cyclic to the mix and you are hitting.
Here is a picture of the DS09 installed. Notice how close the servo arm is to the frame even with the spacers behind the mounting tabs. This complicates the issue in the last post. If the servo sat further back, the arm would be further away from the upper radius in the frame and would have more clearance.
I am currently setting the tail up on the Gaui 255 with a Gaui GU210 gyro and Hyperion DS09 GMD servo. The tail control linkage on the 255 is pretty aggressive. Small inputs make large changes in the tail blades. I moved the ball all the way in on the servo horn (6mm I believe) and adjusted the limit pot on the gyro. It will not let me run beyond about 75% on limit.
.................................................. .....
IT IS ALIVE!!!!!
It is VERY reactive.
It is VERY fast.
It does mild 3D like crazy!
I got none of it on video...
As usual, I had camera issues. I grabbed the good video camera too but got three pitch pumps into the flight and ran out of tape.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XRSONzEuI[/youtube]
I ended up reprogramming the tail servo to 45° from the default 50° which helped get the gyro limit just above 80%. I need to get some more flights on it to evaluate the tail control and piro speed. IMO, the tail is a bit fast right now. Gain is set at 40% on my DX7 using gear end points.
Swash mix ended up at 50% AILE, 57% ELEV and 37% PIT for 7° cyclic and 9° pitch.
Right now I am tail heavy with a Zippy Flightmax 800mAh 3S 20C. When I get the XT60 connectors, I can get the Turnigy 1000mAh 3S 30Cs installed and it will balance out very well.
I was not allowed to fly it any more at the dome last night due to the carbon blades. I am going to try to paint those white today and fly it again tonight.
A couple other things to note. The blades were labeled stating that you NEED to balance them. I popped them on my scale and found one blade weighed 9.01g and the other 8.90g. There was a lot of flash on the heavy bladed that I removed with some 300 grit sand paper. This dropped the weight to 9.00g. I cut a piece of electrical tape that weighed .1g and found it needed to be at the very tip of the light blade to get it to balance like the heavy one.
The head spools up crooked but straightens out once at speed. I am not sure if the dampeners settled in transport or what. They did provide hard spacers or replacements for 3D which I might have to try.
There is a small vibration that I need to chase down which is likely in the head due to the above mentioned issue.
Things got warm after a 4 min flight. The Zippy 800mAh 20C was quite warm. I think the 1000 mAh 30C should do better. The motor and ESC were both warm but not to the point of being too concerned. It ran cooler at 100% than it did at 80% throttle.... although this could have just been the heli breaking in and getting loose.
As you can hear, the motor is LOUD!! Mine came with the mesh a little loose which I tightened up a bit after the first flight. The noise was still there. The motor appears to have the same dimensions as the 4800kv and 5600kv motors. It is the same colors and has the same laser etched logo on the bell.... but instead of having the kv of the motor etched under the Gaui logo, there is a sticker covering that area that says 3400kv. I wonder what it says under that sticker... hmmm...
The landing gear is nice and soft... It looks a lot like the 200 landing gear but larger... the big difference is in how much it flexes. I think it is going to be very resistant to breaking.
The carry case is SWEET. The canopy is so awesome looking from the front. a cross between a Beam E4 and Vibe 50 canopy. There were several guys at a time last night that would come over and ask "what heli is that???" Everybody liked it. I cant wait to get it out tonight.
12-19-2009, 01:00 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Don't know why but your photos are showing up for me. Maybe it's a temporary RCU glitch.The video is there though.
Thanks for starting the new thread.I hope the whole gang moves over.
Bill
Thanks for starting the new thread.I hope the whole gang moves over.
Bill
12-19-2009, 01:03 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Bill, thanks for pointing that out. They work on my computer. I will have to upload them here too I guess. The different forums are so picky about things and get mad about hotlinks and such.. Arggg.. can't we all just get along???
I will see what I can do to fix the pics.
EDDIE!!! WE LOVE YOU!!! COME TO THE DARK SIDE!! POST HERE!!
I will see what I can do to fix the pics.
EDDIE!!! WE LOVE YOU!!! COME TO THE DARK SIDE!! POST HERE!!
12-19-2009, 01:19 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
On another note... I maidened the MS Composits Citabria at the dome last night. I picked it up in really rough shape from a local guy with an E-Flite 300 motor, Castle 9A ESC, two HS55s and a 600mAh 3S battery. This thing was twisted up pretty bad and the hinges were done all wrong. I reinforced the fuse with a carbon rod hot glued to the outside to get the bend out and then went though the whole plane and hot glued areas that needed it. The original hinges were done flat with no bevel and loose sloppy hinge tape. I cut bevels and re-taped which tightened up the control surfaces. I had to re-glue both front wheels which popped apart and replaced a missing tail dragger with a broken tail fin off of one of my HK450s.
This plane flies awesome. I found that it needs some wheel collars to keep the wheels from rolling in too far and I had one wheel retainer fall off which I temporarily fixed with hot glue. On the last flight of the night, the prop saver rubber band broke and the plane was forced to do a dead stick landing. The plane made it unscathed till we got home and Kasia ripped the vertical stab off of it carrying it though the door!! [X(]
Tonight we maiden the Electri-fly FlyLite and hopefully get the Beam E4 back in the air.
This plane flies awesome. I found that it needs some wheel collars to keep the wheels from rolling in too far and I had one wheel retainer fall off which I temporarily fixed with hot glue. On the last flight of the night, the prop saver rubber band broke and the plane was forced to do a dead stick landing. The plane made it unscathed till we got home and Kasia ripped the vertical stab off of it carrying it though the door!! [X(]
Tonight we maiden the Electri-fly FlyLite and hopefully get the Beam E4 back in the air.
12-19-2009, 02:43 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Vote away.. I changed it to what Randy likes. It does not matter to me what the thread is called. I just want to know where my "home" is on RCU.
Thanks for chiming in Randy. I love that you are back with us!!
Thanks for chiming in Randy. I love that you are back with us!!
12-19-2009, 03:14 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
ORIGINAL: 9sec240
Let me know if that works. I swapped them from helista to helifreak
Let me know if that works. I swapped them from helista to helifreak
12-19-2009, 03:18 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
I made it! I left my "farewell" on the 'old' thread.
Ivan, that G255 has a wild sound, and looks wicked fast. Too bad you ran out of tape.
Bill: Congrats on the H550. I still want one even tho I have the gasser.
Looks like I won't be flying tomorrow, forecasting 8-14 inches of snow by tomorrow. Looks like it's gonna be a LOTRO* weekend
*Lord Of The Rings Online
Ivan, that G255 has a wild sound, and looks wicked fast. Too bad you ran out of tape.
Bill: Congrats on the H550. I still want one even tho I have the gasser.
Looks like I won't be flying tomorrow, forecasting 8-14 inches of snow by tomorrow. Looks like it's gonna be a LOTRO* weekend
*Lord Of The Rings Online
12-19-2009, 03:25 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Gary (and Scott if you find your way here) - Pottstown and Pottsville are two different places inPA. Pottstown did have a semi-professional football team, the PottstownFirebirds,but it hasn't been around for quite a long time (I think it dates back to the 70's).
12-19-2009, 03:26 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Ivan - I can tell you're pretty pumped even with all the nit pick problems with the new heli!! Still no pictures! Careful you'll be come a plank guy! I bet you had fun making the plank work! Did that slow flyer plane you wanted ever get released? (Poor Kasia! Hope you weren't to rough on her! Good thing it wasn't one of the helis, hey!)
I'm not particularly concerned about the name as long as I can still come here once in awhile & get some help & encouragemnet as you guys have done for me in the past! Thanks, BTW!.
Let the fun continue!
I'm taking the 450 to work Monday, I promised to show a couple of guys. Oh, lord, I'm worried! The space is about 25 paces between 2 steel girders & maybe 30 front to back, way bigger than my driveway but many BAD things to crash into outside that area!!! I just pulled it out of storage & checked all the screws, got the batts charged, etc, so theorically I should be good to go.
Chuck
I'm not particularly concerned about the name as long as I can still come here once in awhile & get some help & encouragemnet as you guys have done for me in the past! Thanks, BTW!.
Let the fun continue!
I'm taking the 450 to work Monday, I promised to show a couple of guys. Oh, lord, I'm worried! The space is about 25 paces between 2 steel girders & maybe 30 front to back, way bigger than my driveway but many BAD things to crash into outside that area!!! I just pulled it out of storage & checked all the screws, got the batts charged, etc, so theorically I should be good to go.
Chuck
12-19-2009, 03:29 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
ORIGINAL: broggyr
I made it! I left my "farewell" on the 'old' thread.
Ivan, that G255 has a wild sound, and looks wicked fast. Too bad you ran out of tape.
Bill: Congrats on the H550. I still want one even tho I have the gasser.
Looks like I won't be flying tomorrow, forecasting 8-14 inches of snow by tomorrow. Looks like it's gonna be a LOTRO* weekend
*Lord Of The Rings Online
I made it! I left my "farewell" on the 'old' thread.
Ivan, that G255 has a wild sound, and looks wicked fast. Too bad you ran out of tape.
Bill: Congrats on the H550. I still want one even tho I have the gasser.
Looks like I won't be flying tomorrow, forecasting 8-14 inches of snow by tomorrow. Looks like it's gonna be a LOTRO* weekend
*Lord Of The Rings Online
12-19-2009, 03:33 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
brog - thanks for the explanation. I got the LOTR but the "O" threw me. Gaming I presume?.
We got about 3 or 4 inches of wet snow. Wish I had one of those 550s or 600s to blow it off the drive but since I don't I just shoveled it.
Chuck
We got about 3 or 4 inches of wet snow. Wish I had one of those 550s or 600s to blow it off the drive but since I don't I just shoveled it.
Chuck
12-19-2009, 05:08 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Wow... that seems really tight, Ivan. I'm happy you got it flying, though and it does seem super quick. Over on the Freak, Nexgen (probably on Helista, too) said that the 550 was super easy to fly after learning on a 200. I can only imagine how much a smaller helicopter enhances the skill set. Good luck with the new bird, Ivan!
Bill... yep, that's it Pottstown Firebirds.
I used to have a friend who lived in Pottsville, and I've even been there. Granted it was late at night after driving from Norfolk, VA, but it was good drive.
Scott
Bill... yep, that's it Pottstown Firebirds.
I used to have a friend who lived in Pottsville, and I've even been there. Granted it was late at night after driving from Norfolk, VA, but it was good drive. Scott
12-19-2009, 11:42 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
ORIGINAL: dunkonu23
I don't have a problem with his pictures... Interesting...
Scott
I don't have a problem with his pictures... Interesting...
Scott
12-19-2009, 11:46 PM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
I guess I will poke my nose in here and say hello. I had followed the old thread for quite a while, although I think I only posted there twice. Scott and I have been long time friends on the Helipro Blackhawk thread. I started following the old S.W.S.R.B. thread when he told me there were some Gaui owners over there as he knows I have a 550, and he also picked up an IRCHA 425 kit for me this summer when he was there. I haven't finished it yet, but now I think I might be interested in that new Gaui 255, so I will likely follow along on here for a while too.
Best wishes to you Jeff.
Best wishes to you Jeff.
12-20-2009, 02:52 AM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Man do I have some video footage for you guys!!! It will be a little while to get it captured and put up though.
Stay tuned!!!
Stay tuned!!!
12-20-2009, 04:18 AM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Alrighty.. what do you think of this little screamer!!!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICURBOXvHtY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICURBOXvHtY[/youtube]
12-20-2009, 08:42 AM
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RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2
Ivan, nice video of the Flying Buzzsaw 300 but when are we going to get to see the new Gaui 255??? 
Looks like you're starting to become more of a Gaui fan!!
(OK, have to go clear my driveway now)
Looks like you're starting to become more of a Gaui fan!!
(OK, have to go clear my driveway now)
