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  1. #1
    suzonka's Avatar
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    Is this Article correct on rudder input

    RC Scale Aerobatics - 2013/04
    John Glezellis Proper rudder usage is the key to success 119,120,121 Model Aviation - ... [see inverted ]https://library.modelaviation.com/ma/2013/4/rc-scale-aerobatics-201304

    John Glezellis Proper rudder usage is the key to success 119,120,121 Model Aviation - ...

    Question,
    The part in this article about flying [ inverted ] so the rudder is opposite to the stick movement, I was wondering about the pilots who inject a mix of rudder and aileron when they have a yaw issue with their model , well if this mix is locked into the radio mix and you fly inverted, will the mix of the rudder still be OK with the ailerons, how ever opposite on the yaw with the rudder? please clarify this thank you


    here is the model aviation magazine site April page 119 https://library.modelaviation.com/ma...obatics-201304

  2. #2
    Moderator BarracudaHockey's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    If the question is "is the article correct" and John wrote it, chances are the article is correct. You could always write him a note directly and ask him though, stuff slips by on articles and once it's in peoples living rooms it's hard to correct.
    Andy - Helicopter Forum Moderator
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  3. #3
    suzonka's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input


    ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

    If the question is ''is the article correct'' and John wrote it, chances are the article is correct. You could always write him a note directly and ask him though, stuff slips by on articles and once it's in peoples living rooms it's hard to correct.
    Thanks, I tried johns email from the article and it wont go through however I did post it on the feed back questions on his you tube flight.

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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    Hi Guys,

    Actually, I've updated my e-mail to jglezellis@gmail.com if anyone has any questions as I don't monitor the forums on a daily basis.

    If I understand the question correctly, suzonka is asking about rudder to aileron mixes and if it has an impact in other areas of a given flight whenever the airplane isn't in knife edge. If one is using a large amount of mix, the answer is yes. However, most airplanes require up to 10% as a max, so honestly, a human pilot may not be able to even feel it if it is at this percentage or lower. If a larger percentage of mix is needed, the pilot should look at the settings for the aircraft (center of gravity, incidence, and so on) to see what can be adjusted to change this. Let me know if this answers the question.

    Best,
    John

  5. #5
    MajorTomski's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input


    ORIGINAL: suzonka

    the key to success 119,120,121 Model Aviation - ...

    Question,
    The part in this article about flying [ inverted ] so the rudder is opposite to the stick movement, I was wondering about the pilots who inject a mix of rudder and aileron when they have a yaw issue with their model , well if this mix is locked into the radio mix and you fly inverted, will the mix of the rudder still be OK with the ailerons, how ever opposite on the yaw with the rudder? please clarify this thank you

    I think you may have two issues confused.

    Yes his article is correct in that it is trying to get the pilot to understand that depending on the aircraft's orientation your stick input may be reversed to what you think it is.

    His example is watching the plane on a vertical line and it dirfts to its right. If the canopy is facing you, then you add left rudder to correct for the drift. If the bottom is facing you then you add right rudder to correct for that same drift.

    Your question doesn't apply to the situation. Rudder mix is one way to compensate for adverse yaw due to aileron input. That rudder input only happens when aileron is applied. IN the authors article we are only adding rudder to compensate for yaw/drift. Ailerons don't come into play, so the rudder mix is not an issue.
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  6. #6
    suzonka's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    ORIGINAL: jglezellis

    Hi Guys,

    Actually, I've updated my e-mail to jglezellis@gmail.com if anyone has any questions as I don't monitor the forums on a daily basis.

    If I understand the question correctly, suzonka is asking about rudder to aileron mixes and if it has an impact in other areas of a given flight whenever the airplane isn't in knife edge. If one is using a large amount of mix, the answer is yes. However, most airplanes require up to 10% as a max, so honestly, a human pilot may not be able to even feel it if it is at this percentage or lower. If a larger percentage of mix is needed, the pilot should look at the settings for the aircraft (center of gravity, incidence, and so on) to see what can be adjusted to change this. Let me know if this answers the question.

    Best,
    John
    yes this is what I wanted to know , so if I understand it right , if the yaw is to much in the wrong pointed position say left aileron bank then the rudder mix should be decreased and when not inverted it could be increased manually for that second of time ? or vise verse , mix the rudder ailerons normal upright position the when inverted add the opposite rudder to correct any yaw for that second of time .
    the reason I wanted to know this is because not only I do this mix however a lot of club members use this type of a mix Rudder aileron to correct the yaw yet they never think of it when as to be in an inverted position . perhaps its something you should Not rely on the mix that is and just get use to manually using the rudder both upright and inverted. what do you suggest? and thank you

  7. #7
    MajorTomski's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    BUT...the article has nothing to do with mix!

    The article is only addressing the use of rudder, and only rudder, in correcting for non-straigh lines in a pattern event.

    suzonka, once you have your mix set, so that the airplane has no adverse yaw when you apply ailerons, then that's it leave it there. The ammount of rudder mix due to adverse aileron yaw is the same right side up or upside down.

    The reverse rudder written about in the article only applys to when you add ONLY RUDDER to correct a yawing pattern line. It has nothing to do with the preset mixes.
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  8. #8
    suzonka's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    ORIGINAL: MajorTomski

    BUT...the article has nothing to do with mix!

    The article is only addressing the use of rudder, and only rudder, in correcting for non-straigh lines in a pattern event.

    suzonka, once you have your mix set, so that the airplane has no adverse yaw when you apply ailerons, then that's it leave it there. The ammount of rudder mix due to adverse aileron yaw is the same right side up or upside down.

    The reverse rudder written about in the article only applys to when you add ONLY RUDDER to correct a yawing pattern line. It has nothing to do with the preset mixes.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++
    Now I fully understand the article , and how the rudder used manually can correct a non straight lines in pattern . how ever what I did want to prove out that when setting the rudder with a mix with ailerons for an ad versed yaw ,try this set your ailerons to right bank or turn now move the rudder to the right as to correct the yaw , while holding the sticks like this turn the whole plane inverted and now look at where the rudder is facing , it will be opposite to correct any adverse yaw . so if I like to go inverted a lot I would not set a mix of rudder and aileron , and If I hardly went inverted , then I would use the mix to only correct any ad versed yaw. I know it is kind of confusing , just trying to bring a point to pilots who like to use this mix and aren't aware of whats really going on when inverted.
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  9. #9
    Moderator BarracudaHockey's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    The second (right hand) picture has left rudder......and the plane will go to it's left.
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  10. #10
    suzonka's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

    The second (right hand) picture has left rudder......and the plane will go to it's left.
    your right i should have had the rudder going the opposite direction
    I re drew it check it out- thank you

  11. #11
    suzonka's Avatar
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    RE: Is this Article correct on rudder input

    ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

    The second (right hand) picture has left rudder......and the plane will go to it's left.

    you are right I should have drawn it the opposite direction so I redrew it check it out thanks


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