Formosa flight problem
05-03-2005, 06:11 PM
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Formosa flight problem
Need some help . flew my 1st formosa last weekend flew smooth , no stalling , plenty of
power , really nice plane. Stupid me forgot to check my linkage and lost eleavator control
on 2nd flight , sorry to say it is no more . I have built another plane identical to the 1 st one
went to fly it and seems really unstable , wants to roll over , flares up stalls .
I checked all the surfaces for warpage, none I checked the balance point 2 times it balance at
90 mm from the leading edge of the wing , just as posted in the manual .
Im using a brushless hacker outrunner motor and thunder power lith setup , the first plane flew
nice verticle and aerobatics , very smooth and resonsive. this 2nd plane is the complete opposite , have to work like crazy to keep it flying correctly .
Im new to this hobby and have built 5 planes , good solid flyer on overhead wing aircraft ,
can do aerobatic flying. I know the lower wing aircraft have a better response and higher
stall speeds , but what is the difference between these planes? The new plane is about 1 ounce lighter , same motor , battery etc .
If anybody has some ideas that would be great.
I was so excited that the 1st plane flew so nice and that I could fly it , but now am frustrated
with this new plane , on the edge of crashing . As far as I can tell the trim setup is the same from both aircraft .
TODD
power , really nice plane. Stupid me forgot to check my linkage and lost eleavator control
on 2nd flight , sorry to say it is no more . I have built another plane identical to the 1 st one
went to fly it and seems really unstable , wants to roll over , flares up stalls .
I checked all the surfaces for warpage, none I checked the balance point 2 times it balance at
90 mm from the leading edge of the wing , just as posted in the manual .
Im using a brushless hacker outrunner motor and thunder power lith setup , the first plane flew
nice verticle and aerobatics , very smooth and resonsive. this 2nd plane is the complete opposite , have to work like crazy to keep it flying correctly .
Im new to this hobby and have built 5 planes , good solid flyer on overhead wing aircraft ,
can do aerobatic flying. I know the lower wing aircraft have a better response and higher
stall speeds , but what is the difference between these planes? The new plane is about 1 ounce lighter , same motor , battery etc .
If anybody has some ideas that would be great.
I was so excited that the 1st plane flew so nice and that I could fly it , but now am frustrated
with this new plane , on the edge of crashing . As far as I can tell the trim setup is the same from both aircraft .
TODD
05-03-2005, 10:54 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Not sure this helps if you built the plane correctly but I had similar problems on a frequently crashed Formosa. The last crash (wrong model selected on radio and reversed elevator...grrr) caused the fuselage to warp putting the wing's incidence way off and the thrust line of the motor up instead of the usual slight down. Trimming and CG wouldn't help til I finally broke off the front plastic mount tabs for the wing and reglued to get the incidence closer.. also had to redo the motor mount to get the thrust angle correct. Those fixes helped but I ended up retiring it because it just wouldn't fly the same.
Went back to my first Formosa for awhile and it was better and like I remembered but it had its own battle damage. I'll try again when the Formosa 2 comes out.
Maybe try moving the CG forward some more or sight down the fuse and along the side to be sure the wing and elevator are in pretty much inline and you have some down and right thrust from the motor.
Went back to my first Formosa for awhile and it was better and like I remembered but it had its own battle damage. I'll try again when the Formosa 2 comes out.
Maybe try moving the CG forward some more or sight down the fuse and along the side to be sure the wing and elevator are in pretty much inline and you have some down and right thrust from the motor.
05-04-2005, 02:49 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Good advices on CG and incidense there.
I have found that the lazy, slappy aileron-linkage causes my Formosa to be hard to handle. The ailerons don`t center properly so I have to chase the plane to make it fly straight. A stiffer linkage or 2 aileron-servoes would help a lot.
I have found that the lazy, slappy aileron-linkage causes my Formosa to be hard to handle. The ailerons don`t center properly so I have to chase the plane to make it fly straight. A stiffer linkage or 2 aileron-servoes would help a lot.
05-10-2005, 09:09 AM
#4
RE: Formosa flight problem
Check the vertical stabilizer on that 2nd model. Some modelers have found the vertical stab to have a rudder component and explain the roll event as you explained. The flimsy ailerons would not explain the roll and you are perhaps keeping the nose up with elevator and kicking the rudder to avoid the roll and it stalls.
The other check is the wing assembly. See about wrapage. You may have one side wing tip with wash out and the other with none or a little wash-in.
Hope this helps!
Carlos
The other check is the wing assembly. See about wrapage. You may have one side wing tip with wash out and the other with none or a little wash-in.
Hope this helps!
Carlos
08-20-2005, 03:59 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Speaking of flimsy ailerons... I have flown my formosa only 4 or 5 times with little or no joy. It flies around ok, But i want something more aerobatic. Not necessarily full out 3d but i'd like to be able to do a roll in a hover. I had my ailerons set at max and the roll rate was pretty lame.
In stock configuration doing a roll while hovering on the prop is impossible, because in a vertical hover airspeed is 0 the only thing you can use to move the plane in a hover is the thrust from the prop being deflected by a control surface. Once you are hanging from the prop you can turn the ailerons all day it isn't going to roll because in stock form the ailerons start a few inches from the center of the plane and the prop thrust passes in this channel without touching the ailerons.
I'm sure this is characteristic of a f3a plane but I'm not into that, what i wanted was a highly responsive and maneuverable lightweight aerobatic plane that can fly in wind and travel at a decent speed. It is not that responsive, at least not the roll rate. I am hoping the following mod will allow the plane to keep it's ability to fly true and fast while making it roll a bit faster and make it allmost 3d capable.
I have made some modifications that i will not be able to test for another couple of weeks. I'd like to have your thoughts on this;
I extended the ailerons by cutting out the wing parts between the ailerons and the fuselage and epoxied them onto to the existing ailerons and adding 2 hinges to secure the new control surface part to the wing. There is also a part sticking out of the side of the fuselage that extends over the wing in a streamlined fashion, this prevents the ailerons that now go all the way to the fuselage from moving upwards, these parts were cut flush and sanded. While cutting the new aileron section i was carefull not to disturb the control rod anchor point (black tube covering rod forming hinge)
If this works to my satisfaction i will make completely new ailerons with balsa that extend from fuselage to wingtip.
tell me how you think this is going to turn out...
In stock configuration doing a roll while hovering on the prop is impossible, because in a vertical hover airspeed is 0 the only thing you can use to move the plane in a hover is the thrust from the prop being deflected by a control surface. Once you are hanging from the prop you can turn the ailerons all day it isn't going to roll because in stock form the ailerons start a few inches from the center of the plane and the prop thrust passes in this channel without touching the ailerons.
I'm sure this is characteristic of a f3a plane but I'm not into that, what i wanted was a highly responsive and maneuverable lightweight aerobatic plane that can fly in wind and travel at a decent speed. It is not that responsive, at least not the roll rate. I am hoping the following mod will allow the plane to keep it's ability to fly true and fast while making it roll a bit faster and make it allmost 3d capable.
I have made some modifications that i will not be able to test for another couple of weeks. I'd like to have your thoughts on this;
I extended the ailerons by cutting out the wing parts between the ailerons and the fuselage and epoxied them onto to the existing ailerons and adding 2 hinges to secure the new control surface part to the wing. There is also a part sticking out of the side of the fuselage that extends over the wing in a streamlined fashion, this prevents the ailerons that now go all the way to the fuselage from moving upwards, these parts were cut flush and sanded. While cutting the new aileron section i was carefull not to disturb the control rod anchor point (black tube covering rod forming hinge)
If this works to my satisfaction i will make completely new ailerons with balsa that extend from fuselage to wingtip.
tell me how you think this is going to turn out...
08-20-2005, 05:46 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
aflipz - don't bother, you will then have problems with elevator throw and also later rudder throw. I think you are better off getting a nice pattern 3D plane like the Fliton Prodigy or some other cheap but good China made planes. I have flown one cheap China plane that was wonderful to fly. Maybe something from www.3dhobbyshop.com? What I had was the Hot Point, got it in Singapore, check out the aeroplane section ... www.jethobby.com.sg
08-20-2005, 11:51 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
You mean once i have enough aileron i'm gonna want more elevator and more rudder? I'll just have to see. I allready did the mod i was talking about before posting that message i just wanted opinions and also maybe find out if someone else did this. I'm not really all that attached to this plane but if i can make it more fun to fly that's great...
Look at the formosa 2, it's ailerons are longer, they go all the way like mine now do.
Thanks for the links. by the way this plane looks great;
http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/e...n=show&pid=208
does anyone know if it come covered like that or is it all white?
Look at the formosa 2, it's ailerons are longer, they go all the way like mine now do.
Thanks for the links. by the way this plane looks great;
http://www.jethobby.com.sg/cgi-bin/e...n=show&pid=208
does anyone know if it come covered like that or is it all white?
08-20-2005, 09:10 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
aflipz - for 3D you want the ELE to be about 50% of the total stab, as for RUD you want about the same too for it to be really effective, still I have seen a photo somewhere and the Formosa was prop hanging. Maybe the ELE and RUD is effective enough.
I am not sure who might sell the Hot Point in the US ... there are 2 versions, one in white and the other like tracing paper. It does a great KE, a little coupling only. Also she will hang happily. I powered her with a Himax 2816 and there was tons of power, CG was not an issue at all. This one is a keeper if you can get it, cheap and good.
I am not sure who might sell the Hot Point in the US ... there are 2 versions, one in white and the other like tracing paper. It does a great KE, a little coupling only. Also she will hang happily. I powered her with a Himax 2816 and there was tons of power, CG was not an issue at all. This one is a keeper if you can get it, cheap and good.
08-20-2005, 09:20 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
I am able to hang the formosa from the prop no problem, I can use elevator and rudder to keep it pointing up BUT i cannot do a roll on prop because the ailerons do not redirect the thrust from the prop... But yah i could keep it hovering all day, just couldn't get it ti do what i want it to while hovering...
08-21-2005, 01:49 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
i've been trying to get some of my buddies to follow me to the field with their video cameras. It seems to most of my friends think this hobby is too geeky and my invitation is allways welcomed with the enthusiasm a child would have towards going to a strangers funeral.
I need new friends...
Right now, i am slowly preparing the formosa for flight but it'll take at least a week, i have many parts on order. It is grounded because i had pulled all the electronics from it and mounted them in another plane wich i tragically lost in severe wind conditions (it was a slower plane, i still think the formosa would have made it back...)
anyway, my setup will be 3 hitec hs55, 3 cell 1320 mah thunder power pro lite, hfs-04mg rx, cc25 esc and bp21 outrunner with 8x4 prop. It should scream now. I used to have 3 cell 2100 thunder power, futaba rx, cc10 esc and a 22-1000m (rimfire) motor. It hovered at 2/3 throttle and climbed vertically but not to my liking, perhaps just switching to the 1320's would have made a big difference on that, who cares it'll be faster now. I made the venting hole in front a lot larger, increasing airflow and removing a few grams (about 9 total from different parts of the plane)
If it really really impresses me in flight i might modify the wing to accomodate dual servos and fabricate new ailerons.
I need new friends...
Right now, i am slowly preparing the formosa for flight but it'll take at least a week, i have many parts on order. It is grounded because i had pulled all the electronics from it and mounted them in another plane wich i tragically lost in severe wind conditions (it was a slower plane, i still think the formosa would have made it back...)
anyway, my setup will be 3 hitec hs55, 3 cell 1320 mah thunder power pro lite, hfs-04mg rx, cc25 esc and bp21 outrunner with 8x4 prop. It should scream now. I used to have 3 cell 2100 thunder power, futaba rx, cc10 esc and a 22-1000m (rimfire) motor. It hovered at 2/3 throttle and climbed vertically but not to my liking, perhaps just switching to the 1320's would have made a big difference on that, who cares it'll be faster now. I made the venting hole in front a lot larger, increasing airflow and removing a few grams (about 9 total from different parts of the plane)
If it really really impresses me in flight i might modify the wing to accomodate dual servos and fabricate new ailerons.
08-21-2005, 11:21 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
aflipz - we have a camera man at the field often, see the pic below! Wonderful one!!! Anyways, seriously, after this do get something better, I mean the Formosa is nice but there are other stuff out there which makes this one feel sloppy and you need not sell your kidney for it. 
08-21-2005, 02:04 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Wow dude if your getting it to hover on a stock setup you must have a very hot motor that came with the package. I'm using an EFlite speed 370 brushless and as hard as I try it will not hover very long while vertical is almost out of site.
ORIGINAL: aflipz
Speaking of flimsy ailerons... I have flown my formosa only 4 or 5 times with little or no joy. It flies around ok, But i want something more aerobatic. Not necessarily full out 3d but i'd like to be able to do a roll in a hover. I had my ailerons set at max and the roll rate was pretty lame.
In stock configuration doing a roll while hovering on the prop is impossible, because in a vertical hover airspeed is 0 the only thing you can use to move the plane in a hover is the thrust from the prop being deflected by a control surface. Once you are hanging from the prop you can turn the ailerons all day it isn't going to roll because in stock form the ailerons start a few inches from the center of the plane and the prop thrust passes in this channel without touching the ailerons.
I'm sure this is characteristic of a f3a plane but I'm not into that, what i wanted was a highly responsive and maneuverable lightweight aerobatic plane that can fly in wind and travel at a decent speed. It is not that responsive, at least not the roll rate. I am hoping the following mod will allow the plane to keep it's ability to fly true and fast while making it roll a bit faster and make it allmost 3d capable.
I have made some modifications that i will not be able to test for another couple of weeks. I'd like to have your thoughts on this;
I extended the ailerons by cutting out the wing parts between the ailerons and the fuselage and epoxied them onto to the existing ailerons and adding 2 hinges to secure the new control surface part to the wing. There is also a part sticking out of the side of the fuselage that extends over the wing in a streamlined fashion, this prevents the ailerons that now go all the way to the fuselage from moving upwards, these parts were cut flush and sanded. While cutting the new aileron section i was carefull not to disturb the control rod anchor point (black tube covering rod forming hinge)
If this works to my satisfaction i will make completely new ailerons with balsa that extend from fuselage to wingtip.
tell me how you think this is going to turn out...
Speaking of flimsy ailerons... I have flown my formosa only 4 or 5 times with little or no joy. It flies around ok, But i want something more aerobatic. Not necessarily full out 3d but i'd like to be able to do a roll in a hover. I had my ailerons set at max and the roll rate was pretty lame.
In stock configuration doing a roll while hovering on the prop is impossible, because in a vertical hover airspeed is 0 the only thing you can use to move the plane in a hover is the thrust from the prop being deflected by a control surface. Once you are hanging from the prop you can turn the ailerons all day it isn't going to roll because in stock form the ailerons start a few inches from the center of the plane and the prop thrust passes in this channel without touching the ailerons.
I'm sure this is characteristic of a f3a plane but I'm not into that, what i wanted was a highly responsive and maneuverable lightweight aerobatic plane that can fly in wind and travel at a decent speed. It is not that responsive, at least not the roll rate. I am hoping the following mod will allow the plane to keep it's ability to fly true and fast while making it roll a bit faster and make it allmost 3d capable.
I have made some modifications that i will not be able to test for another couple of weeks. I'd like to have your thoughts on this;
I extended the ailerons by cutting out the wing parts between the ailerons and the fuselage and epoxied them onto to the existing ailerons and adding 2 hinges to secure the new control surface part to the wing. There is also a part sticking out of the side of the fuselage that extends over the wing in a streamlined fashion, this prevents the ailerons that now go all the way to the fuselage from moving upwards, these parts were cut flush and sanded. While cutting the new aileron section i was carefull not to disturb the control rod anchor point (black tube covering rod forming hinge)
If this works to my satisfaction i will make completely new ailerons with balsa that extend from fuselage to wingtip.
tell me how you think this is going to turn out...
08-21-2005, 04:10 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Oh, i meant stock aileron configuration. I never tried the stock power system, it's still in the bag with the included props and gearbox. I was using a great planes rimfire 1000kv with 3 cell 2100mah lipo, 9x3.8 prop and cc phoenix 10 esc. Sorry i wasn't more clear. I really meant stock airframe not power system.
08-21-2005, 06:10 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
ORIGINAL: tIANci
Anyways, seriously, after this do get something better, I mean the Formosa is nice but there are other stuff out there which makes this one feel sloppy and you need not sell your kidney for it.
Anyways, seriously, after this do get something better, I mean the Formosa is nice but there are other stuff out there which makes this one feel sloppy and you need not sell your kidney for it.
08-22-2005, 07:09 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
aflipz - For a kidney that has no form of affliction I think you can really buy the Fliton Extra 330 and EP it. That is definately worth losing a kidney for! Okay ... seriously ... for something nice ... try the Fliton Prodigy ... mine is just ready and will maiden soon. See the attached pics. Its a beauty ... with my Himax 2816 it will be awesome.
time pilot - go for the Formosa first ... I love the Hot Point that I bought but not sure who sells it in the US. The HYPERION at www.3Dhobbyshop.com looks great but I find it really expensive. Maybe you can go for the Prodigy or the Quiet Storm if money is not really an issue.
time pilot - go for the Formosa first ... I love the Hot Point that I bought but not sure who sells it in the US. The HYPERION at www.3Dhobbyshop.com looks great but I find it really expensive. Maybe you can go for the Prodigy or the Quiet Storm if money is not really an issue.
08-30-2005, 02:53 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Nah, no one wants my kidneys, they got pickled by a little too much booze...
I'll have to think cheap... 89$ for an arf without power system is fine by me though.
I really want something that i think doesn't exist. At least not yet.
I am dreaming of a not flat foam plane, park flyer size, that weighs about 12-14 oz, can reach level airspeed of about 60mph wot (to come back against wind, in order not to loose my plane again), BUT can hang on prop at 1/2 throttle, do tight 3d stuff like knife edge loops etc and stay in the air for 20 minutes if flown conservatively. It must be able to slow down for landing, have the ability to use landing gear or remove them and belly land to further reduce the weight. It's got to have a sick roll rate but be smooth and steady.
Really i want it to fly something like my stiffened, brushless u can do 3d ep did, but it must also fulfill my need for speed.
I'll have to think cheap... 89$ for an arf without power system is fine by me though.
I really want something that i think doesn't exist. At least not yet.
I am dreaming of a not flat foam plane, park flyer size, that weighs about 12-14 oz, can reach level airspeed of about 60mph wot (to come back against wind, in order not to loose my plane again), BUT can hang on prop at 1/2 throttle, do tight 3d stuff like knife edge loops etc and stay in the air for 20 minutes if flown conservatively. It must be able to slow down for landing, have the ability to use landing gear or remove them and belly land to further reduce the weight. It's got to have a sick roll rate but be smooth and steady.
Really i want it to fly something like my stiffened, brushless u can do 3d ep did, but it must also fulfill my need for speed.
08-31-2005, 11:16 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
not really, if the shape of the wings and fuse doesn't change it won't be any more aerodynamic than the foam model even if it is made of carbon. It would not fly any faster. Speed envellope is about aerodynamics 1st. Stiffness only allows handling of higher speeds, not getting there.
08-31-2005, 12:25 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
ORIGINAL: aflipz
I am dreaming of a not flat foam plane, park flyer size, that weighs about 12-14 oz, can reach level airspeed of about 60mph wot (to come back against wind, in order not to loose my plane again), BUT can hang on prop at 1/2 throttle, do tight 3d stuff like knife edge loops etc and stay in the air for 20 minutes if flown conservatively. It must be able to slow down for landing, have the ability to use landing gear or remove them and belly land to further reduce the weight. It's got to have a sick roll rate but be smooth and steady.
Really i want it to fly something like my stiffened, brushless u can do 3d ep did, but it must also fulfill my need for speed.
I am dreaming of a not flat foam plane, park flyer size, that weighs about 12-14 oz, can reach level airspeed of about 60mph wot (to come back against wind, in order not to loose my plane again), BUT can hang on prop at 1/2 throttle, do tight 3d stuff like knife edge loops etc and stay in the air for 20 minutes if flown conservatively. It must be able to slow down for landing, have the ability to use landing gear or remove them and belly land to further reduce the weight. It's got to have a sick roll rate but be smooth and steady.
Really i want it to fly something like my stiffened, brushless u can do 3d ep did, but it must also fulfill my need for speed.
BTW, what do you guys think about the Sabre?
http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=451
08-31-2005, 02:12 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
Holy C$#@ i hadn't heard of that one, it looks like it's exaclty what i'm looking for... ok not much for looks but damn!
08-31-2005, 03:32 PM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
ORIGINAL: aflipz
Holy C$#@ i hadn't heard of that one, it looks like it's exaclty what i'm looking for... ok not much for looks but damn!
Holy C$#@ i hadn't heard of that one, it looks like it's exaclty what i'm looking for... ok not much for looks but damn!
09-12-2005, 07:45 AM
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RE: Formosa flight problem
I thought you had to have something in there as mine will barly hang with an EFlite 370 and 3s2p 1300's. Love that setup though as it is fast and responsive. My vote is for you to sell that kidney and buy the outher plane.
