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30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

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30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Old 11-04-2006, 04:28 PM
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opjose
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Default 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!


Yeah I'm a happy camper.

I have a Super Sportster EP that I equipped with

A cheap Ebay 400w motor (BP Hobbies 2915-5D motor equivalent)
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-400W-High-To...QQcmdZViewItem
2 x 2200 mAh 11v 12c Lipo batteries = 4400mAh
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-11-1v-12C-22...QQcmdZViewItem
60 Amp ESC
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Turborix-MBC...QQcmdZViewItem

I was originally getting 6 minutes of hyper fast flight, with this combination when using a standard 9x8 APC prop.

I switched to a 9x6E APC prop and I am now getting a good 28-30 minutes of flight time before the ESC low voltage safeguard kicks in.


I did all of this on the cheap, and the combination is an excellent performer and of very good quality.

The ESC has a full range of programming features and the I bench tested the batteries and found that they are better than spec.

The motor really yanks the SS EP around the sky.


Old 11-05-2006, 10:10 AM
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Charley
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Hoo boy! What obvious SPAM. Show me a picture of your SS-EP with both of those batteries in it.

CR
Old 11-05-2006, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Spam because this stuff is cheap?

This is not spam.

I posted this so others can see how I went from 6 minute flights, that I had been complaining about, to 30 minute flights with the above configuration.

If you check my other posts on this issue you may find that I've been asking about switching from standard to "E" props.

That did the final trick.

If you are truely interested in a picture, that is not a problem. The batteries fit just fine side by side (I have them taped together) and all of this ways about 10oz less than the standard stuff.

The plane flies beautifully with this.

I also bench tested those batteries and they come out at 2350mAh at the cutoff voltage, which is pretty good.

I have no relationship with the above seller other than having purchased those items.

In turn I found the original post about the 300watt motor on another thread here, and I went with the 400 watter instead.

Next time think before placing foot in mouth.

Old 11-05-2006, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Oh and here is the picture....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/ga...berID%3D216965

Old 11-05-2006, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: opjose

Next time think before placing foot in mouth.
Foot, shmoot; I figured you might get those batteies in there standing on edge. What most made me skeptical was your claim of the big change in flight times by changing props from a 9x8 APC to a 9x6 APC-E. I figured at the very least you were exaggerating.

CR
Old 11-05-2006, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

No, no exaggerating.

I clock a full 30 minutes before the low voltage safeguard kicks in, lowering the output to the motor and forcing me to land.

This is with loops, nose straight up accellerations/flight and no attempt to lengthen the flight time.

If I were to be a bit more judicious with throttle use, I probably could increase this greatly, but in turn I don't consider that to be real world performance.

I have my radio time indicator cutoff set to 28 minutes now so I have a couple of minutes to get the plane down under full power.

The change from 9x8 to 9x6E did the final trick.

In talking with someone more experienced than I about electrics, they mentioned that I propbably saw the large increase in time because I went from a standard 9x8 prop (included with the S-600GD kit) to a 9x6E prop, and in turn the "E" series props have a much thinner cross section.

He said that this puts less of a load on the motor as it does not have to fight prop rotation as much. Coupled with the more efficient "spoon" shape of the "E" props I get the flight time returned.


At the price of those packs, I ordered two more sets, and even with shipping they are fairly cheap.

The one caveat with all of this, is that the above motor DOES NOT include the X-Mount, which I purchased from BPHobbies.

If you are interested in replicating the above, you may want to go ahead and get the motor from BPHobbies instead.

The above is EXACTLY the same as the BP Hobbies 2915-5D down to the windings. BPhobbies includes the X-Mount in their price so they come out to be almost the same final price, but quicker delivery (2 weeks from Hong Kong for the above.)


I mounted the 60Amp ESC under the motor in the nose to give it more weight towards the front.

The batteries are mounted as per the picture to get the balance right. I charge them outside the plane with an ICE charger.

I used the prop adapter from my S-600GD instead of the one included with the motor. The former accepts standard props and can be purchased seperately. The adapter included with the motor has a slightly wider diameter which may require reaming the props out a bit.


I fly the plane with it's throws set to 140% and 30% expo on high rates. Low rates set to 60-80%, expo 15%.





Old 11-06-2006, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

I suspect that what you left out is that with the change in prop there was a change in throttle management. Also, you never stated what the capacity of the battery was that you were running down in 6 minutes. It's the little things....

I bought the T-600 setup from Tower originally. It came with a Master Airscrew 10x8 E-prop. That setup wouldn't pull a sick cat out of the sandbox. I bought the S-600 motoer separately, later. It flew the model pretty well on 8 cells but the flight times were short. If you were watching the $$ you could have bought the S-600 pieces separately and saved, plus spec your prop. Funny that, at the time, the package cost more than the pieces. It's usually the other way 'round.

As I've reported elsewhere I'm using a Hyperion 3013-14 brushless, 45 amp ESC and 3150 or 3850 LiPo. I get about 20 minutes on this setup, depending on how I fly it. I spent quite a bit more $$ than you did ( that was last spring) but I bought the stuff at 3D Hobby Shop, about 30 minutes away fron the house. I saw the same setup fly in a friend's SS-EP, duplicated it and am happy with it.

Over time, I spent a bundle on motors, batteries and ESCs. But I was playing around and having fun.

Cheers,

CR
Old 11-06-2006, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!



I suspect that what you left out is that with the change in prop there was a change in throttle management. Also, you never stated what the capacity of the battery was that you were running down in 6 minutes. It's the little things....
If you re-read the first post you'll see the original configuration. The ONLY change was the prop size and type.

I also posted that throttle management had NOTHING to do with it.

Quite the contrary, yesterday I got 32 minutes from it, letting a bunch of people try their hand with this setup.

Same motor, battery, etc.

They were all quite impressed with both the performance and the longevity as we kept it up in the air for over 30 minutes non stop, handing the controller around. We were even attempting to hover the plane various times.

I was showing off with stall "flips" at fairly low altitude since the plane has plenty of power to recover... Got quite a few oohs and ahhs. It's really a very nice flyer with the proper setup.

The low voltage cutoff did not kick in.



I bought the T-600 setup from Tower originally. It came with a Master Airscrew 10x8 E-prop. That setup wouldn't pull a sick cat out of the sandbox. I bought the S-600 motoer separately, later. It flew the model pretty well on 8 cells but the flight times were short. If you were watching the $$ you could have bought the S-600 pieces separately and saved, plus spec your prop. Funny that, at the time, the package cost more than the pieces. It's usually the other way 'round.
I purchased the S-600GD setup with the ESC. and two spare props.

I went right to the brushless setup after reading about the 300 watt version of the above motor here.

I originally used one of the provided standard APC 9x8 props on this combination and also employed the prop mount from it..

The plane hauled, and had unlimited vertical. It went straight up like an overpowered jet.

But only 6 minutes of flight time... The batterys got very warm almost boardering on hot after the flight.

Once I changed out the prop, the batteries stay cool throughout.


As I've reported elsewhere I'm using a Hyperion 3013-14 brushless, 45 amp ESC and 3150 or 3850 LiPo. I get about 20 minutes on this setup, depending on how I fly it. I spent quite a bit more $$ than you did ( that was last spring) but I bought the stuff at 3D Hobby Shop, about 30 minutes away fron the house. I saw the same setup fly in a friend's SS-EP, duplicated it and am happy with it.

Over time, I spent a bundle on motors, batteries and ESCs. But I was playing around and having fun.

Cheers,

CR
Thanks to the information on the other thread I found the above. I really should have not bothered with the S-600GD combo at all. As it is I don't know what to do with it now. I purchased it and the 3300mAh battery pack, but decided against using it when I saw how heavy this all was.

I'd like to at least use it in something else... but what would accept this and give good performance?
Old 11-06-2006, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!


Ok, yer right, you did say you used the nitro 9x8 on the Lipos. My bad. But look, if the plane would go straight up with the APC 9x8, couldn't you have throttled back? Have you figured out how much current you had to be drawing at WOT to knock a 4.5 Amp battery down to BEC cutoff in 6 minutes? Oh well, that's over with now.

I know what you mean about the having all the extra hardware on hand . I have two of the SSEP stock power systems as well as the T-600 setup and the S-600 motor. I was thinking of a profile twin for the SSEP systems. Maybe a SPAD P-38? Wonder if there's one on SPADs R us.

CR
Old 11-06-2006, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Yeah I tried flying it at 40% throttle and it still was a rocket with the 9x8 APC.

The speculation was that the thicker diameter of the standard prop caused the motor to continually do more work.

I didn't measure the power consumption.

Spads'R-Us... lol.

Old 01-13-2007, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

opjose,

I was wondering if you'd post a photo of your engine mount arrangement to save me some time, as I'm using the same motor as you (actually, the BP Hobbies version). I may even order the lipos as well!

Did you do any mods to the batt hatch? Any problems with keeping the hatch secured?

Thanks...
Old 01-13-2007, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Basically I cut a piece of ply, in the appoximate shape of the cowl cross section, (but smaller) at the correct distance for the motor.

Think of an ovoid "O" solid piece of wood with a hole in the center.

I cut a .75" hole in the center. Think of an ovoid "O" solid piece of wood with a hole in the center.

Then I cut two notches on either side so that this ply mount would slide into the existing arms.

I secured it in place with BOTH epoxy and screws inserted through four small ply or hardwood "triangles" to hold it up.

There are other pictures here of this arrangement, which is where I got the idea for the mount.

It works perfectly and IMHO is better than using the Hobby-Lobby plastic mount that someone posted.

To re-inforce it even more I added one small piece of hardwood going from the top of the "O" on back to the firewall, to form a 3 point system.

Check the other threads and you'll see pictures of something very similiar, but without my third piece of wood.

The motor is secured to the wood using the X-mount and blind nuts and screws.

You want the mount to be quite sturdy as this arrangement will produce a lot of torque...

When I first tested all of this statically I ripped out the first mount I made that I had attached at two points and just screws!

Fortunately I only busted a prop.




As for the battery hatch.

I used 8 of the hobby lobby rare earth button magnents (they come four to a pack ).

I used a circular dremel grinding bit to create a hole in the top of the hatch. (see above picture but read on ) The hole was perfect for the magnet, but did not go all the way through the wood. It left a paper thin section of wood. Had I drilled or grinded further it would have gone right through the hatch re-informcement wood plate...

I then filled this with a bit of epoxy and put the magnets in place.

Once it was dry I put this back in the fuselage and pressed hard. Since the magnets were ever so slightly "raised" the left a mark in the fuselage wood where I drilled for the other four magnets.

I mounted them with epoxy as well, flush with the wood.

In effect I have high strength magnet to magnet contact, so there is no futzing around with the rubber bands.

This holds VERY well and pops off easily.

In the above picture you can see the results of my first attempt with just two magnets (this was not enough ).

Look at the back top where the hatch mounts and you'll see a small washer affixed "into" a depressed hole in the wood affixed with epoxy. Directly opposite this in the hatch cover is a magnet imbedded in the hatch wood.

This was not strong enough so I replaced this with four (actually eight four per hatch "side" ) magnets similiarly set up with NO washer... rather the magnets lightly "touch" each other when the hatch is in place.




You'll love this arrangement.

The plane flies like it has a .32+ engine in it with none of the glow mess, and better flight times.

The batteries are available from Nitroplanes as well, for about (or less!) cost, so I purchased a total of six, which gives me about an hour and a half of actual flight time!

This for practically the same price Thunder Power, etc. would charge for one set of two batteries!

Even with the smaller E prop (which I recommend) you'll find that it's a capable and FAST flyer.

It's doesn't have much drag so it's efficient and it slows down SLOWLY.


My only problem with this plane, is that it is rather light... heh...

Our airfield has an elevated runway, much like the big boys... and even though the air is relatively slow, we get a surface wind running over the top of the runway. This wind follows the countours so it turns "down" over the edge of the field.

As I cross the threshold my plane usually takes an abrupt nose dive at the worst time.

I've taken to bringing it in high and slow, then diving for the deck at idle after it crosses this line.


Anyway you are going to have a blast with it and with the 2P3S arrangement, you'll see people taking off after you then bringing their planes down TWICE to refuel while yours is still up.... resulting in the

"what DO you have in there?" comments I sometimes get.




Old 01-13-2007, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: cacti

opjose,

I was wondering if you'd post a photo of your engine mount arrangement to save me some time, as I'm using the same motor as you (actually, the BP Hobbies version). I may even order the lipos as well!

Did you do any mods to the batt hatch? Any problems with keeping the hatch secured?

Thanks...
Hay Cacti, here's a pic of my SS EP brushless setup. It's one of the pics opjose mentioned.

http://image.rcuniverse.com/forum/up...94/Sq45945.jpg

Cheers,

CR
Old 01-14-2007, 01:34 AM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Yup that's the very one!



My only addition to this excellent idea was that I added a small ply cross brace that goes between the top of the "o" (where you see the vertical line ) on back to the firewall, and some small wood screws to further brace the angles you've put in.

The SS EP is an excellent flyer with this setup.

Old 01-14-2007, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: opjose

Yup that's the very one!



My only addition to this excellent idea was that I added a small ply cross brace that goes between the top of the "o" (where you see the vertical line ) on back to the firewall, and some small wood screws to further brace the angles you've put in.

The SS EP is an excellent flyer with this setup.



There are 4 triangle stock braces on the bottom for more strength. I'ts strong enough that if you apply vertical pressure to the prop shaft, the original mount rails flex. I used balsa tri-stock and CA glue becaise I wanted the mount to tear away in the event of a bad crash, in order to protect the motor. A friend of mine retained his by running long screws back to blind nuts in the original firewall, so that he could adjust the thrust angles easily. I had to put the washers you can see at the top, behind the X-mount, to increase the down thrust after the initial flight.

CR

Old 01-14-2007, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Thanks for all your great ideas!

Charley,

Did you add the down thrust angle to neutralize nose down trim the model required after your mod? How about CG, any difficulties? What battery setup are you using? What prop? I have ordered a Watt's Up meter to use in conjunction with MotoCalc to help narrow down prop sizes, but with helpful posts like yours and opjose's, who needs it?

Opjose,

For obvious reasons I would always be concerned about the reliability of the ESC is any electric plane. How has yours performed? Are there any programmable features?

Thanks again!
Old 01-14-2007, 09:12 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: cacti

Thanks for all your great ideas!

Charley,

Did you add the down thrust angle to neutralize nose down trim the model required after your mod? How about CG, any difficulties? What battery setup are you using? What prop? I have ordered a Watt's Up meter to use in conjunction with MotoCalc to help narrow down prop sizes, but with helpful posts like yours and opjose's, who needs it?
Yes, the model climbed under full power, not much but I wanted it neutral. When I put in the mount I tried to align it so that the original thrust angles were duplicated. You need to look at the "Super Sportster EP with Upgraded Power System" thread. All your answers are in there. the Hyperion 3013-14 I used is overkill. A 3007 would be adequate. My setup is a real hot rod.

CR
Old 01-14-2007, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: cacti

Thanks for all your great ideas!

Charley,

Did you add the down thrust angle to neutralize nose down trim the model required after your mod? How about CG, any difficulties? What battery setup are you using? What prop? I have ordered a Watt's Up meter to use in conjunction with MotoCalc to help narrow down prop sizes, but with helpful posts like yours and opjose's, who needs it?

Opjose,

For obvious reasons I would always be concerned about the reliability of the ESC is any electric plane. How has yours performed? Are there any programmable features?

Thanks again!
I was indeed worried about the reliability of the ESC which is why I purposely went with the 60A esc, that is really overkill for the engine. The low cost offset the upgrade.

I've had many dozens of flights with the model and never any problems with the ESC.

The ESC has a full range of programmable parameters, including but not limited to

Cutoff voltage
Braking
Cutoff behaviour (e.g. power reduction or complete shutdown of engine power)
Motor timing
Automatic/Manual Voltage levels
etc., etc.

Re: C.G.

I originally placed the batteries as pictured about midway where the original battery would be, about 1/4 further back than in the picture, so that the C.G. would be unchanged.

Since this combo is actually LIGHTER than the originally provided motor/batter equipment, this caused the plane to nose up in flight, but still be controllable.

I ended up moving the batteries forward until they are about 1/2" back from the firewall.

This gave me the proper performance/balance.

I have a non-visible piece of velcro on the bottom of both batteries. There is another in the battery tray right at the juncture to the main fuselage.

That permits me to adjust the batteries back and forth as I see fit. Once they are in place I hold them there with the provided velcro strap.

This works well.

I doubt the plane would balance properly with only one 3S pack though.


The plane required NO "neuralization of nose down" down thrust after the mod.

Remember that additional DOWN THRUST is used to counteract DOWNWARD PITCHING of the plane when you pull off the throttle.

It is not, as many newbie RC's mistakenly assume, used to counteract nose up or nose down tendancies in flight. (that is done by adjusting either tail incidence, weight or elevator zero points/trim). Rather downthrust is used to adjust for differences in attitude when the plane goes from high to low/no power.

If you are flying a plane, level at 70% throttle and it's all trimmed out for this, then you notice that when you quickly pull off power the plane pitches UP, you need MORE "UP" thrust in the plane.

That is, the engine when it is under power, is pulling the plane down, so you must counteract this with more up thrust so that the plane initially remains level in flight until it starts slowing down towards stall speeds.

Likewise the reverse is true. This is counter-intuitive.

The idea is to get the under power behaviour identical to how the plane behaves when it still has speed but no power.

And yea I pretty much duplicated the original angles too...

I used a t-square, protractor and metal ruler to make sure that things were exactly the same.


Old 05-17-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

OK, I have a question. I am kind of new to electric power, but not planes. I looked up the motor you talked about on the BP web site and they say it pulls 29A with a 9X6E prop at 11.1V unless I read something wrong. At 29A and 4400mah battery, BP says you get a 9.1 min. flight time. To get around a 30 min flight, you would need to be pulling 8A or there abouts. What am I missing here. I have the Super Sportster and am going to convert it to brushless power. I already have a 4000mah battery and am going to order the motor from BP, but I still don't understand how you get 30 min flights. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just don't understand how you get that kind of time with those batteries and motor setup.
Old 05-17-2007, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

ORIGINAL: mred33

OK, I have a question. I am kind of new to electric power, but not planes. I looked up the motor you talked about on the BP web site and they say it pulls 29A with a 9X6E prop at 11.1V unless I read something wrong. At 29A and 4400mah battery, BP says you get a 9.1 min. flight time. To get around a 30 min flight, you would need to be pulling 8A or there abouts. What am I missing here. I have the Super Sportster and am going to convert it to brushless power. I already have a 4000mah battery and am going to order the motor from BP, but I still don't understand how you get 30 min flights. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just don't understand how you get that kind of time with those batteries and motor setup.
The motor CAN draw 29A with a larger prop under optimal conditions. I'm not getting anywhere near that draw with the 9X6E.

Heck even with a 11x7 I'm not approaching that.

With the 9X6E it's drawing less than half of that, and then of course you are not flying at full throttle all the time.

The plane is so fast with this combo that you spend most of the time running the motor at 50-60% throttle even performing stunts.

I've not flown it flat out until it runs out of power, but I would say that 14+ minutes of full throttle flight would be about right with that prop.


BTW: This plane is STILL going strong! Over a hundred flights on it now.

Old 05-18-2007, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Thanks for the reply. Like I said, I am new to elect. and am still trying to learn everything. I guess I'll find out pretty soon what is going on with this motor because I am going to order it pretty soon. Thanks for the feedback.
Ed
Old 05-18-2007, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

You'll love it.

The combination transforms the plane.

I'd suggest flying it for no more than 8 minutes on the initial flights, then bringing it down and while hanging onto the plane run it at 75% throttle until the ESC safety kicks in.

This will give you an approximate flight time.

Subtract about 15% of the total time, and you'll know how to set up your timer.

Old 05-23-2007, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

Thanks for the help. I am about ready to order the motor and am looking forward to flying this beast. Everything I have read about the SS says it is a great flying plane and to forget about the stock motor setup, so I am. I haven't even flown the plane yet and am making the mods with the brushless motor setup and all. I got a good deal on a 4000mah battery, so I am using that insteaad of the twin pack you are talking about. Gotta see if I can get this thing to ballance without adding weight to it. Thanks again for the help.
Ed
Old 05-23-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!

I had the original setup balanced as it came with the factory config.

After I found that the upgraded setup was actually a bit LIGHTER, I flew the plane this way.

It was fine. I ended up merely shoving the battery packs forward about 1/2" just to see how it would fly.

I prefer it with the batteries up against the wing tube.



Old 05-24-2007, 08:19 AM
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Charley
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Default RE: 30 minutes flight time from my Super Sportster EP!


ORIGINAL: opjose


I prefer it with the batteries up against the wing tube.
Uh, wing tube? Got your models mixed up?

I wound up with my battery as far forward as it will go and 3/4 oz of lead in the cowl, right behind the air scoop.

CR

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