rrjwilson

I am continually looking at the UAV plane models as I'd love to put my real love and a fun hobby together and build a real scale UAV.
So my concerns are more of flexibility of the platform however some of the information seems to be odd like the wing area (anyone got a ruler?)
63" MQ9 (Wing Area: 403sq in) is very capable airframe.
74" MQ9(Wing Area: 370sq in)I assume would be more capable as its wings are longer with similar lines so more flexibility for my additional parts.
98" MQ9 (Wing Area: 503sq in) I'd assume the larger dimensionswould support greater "appendages" but at 5-6lb normal flight mass it will be upto7 dependent on my daughterboards which means some serious juice and probably almost no flight time. I'm not sure at 98" i could even fit it in my shed

I have been toying with the idea of using 3D model to create sections so I can build a similar size model from scratch from carbon fibre. I'd love to see an FQ12 with twin in-runners or EDFs.

papajeff

RRJ,

Even at a flying weight of 7lbs., with a motor/prop combination that will produce at least 100watts
per pound, I really believe that the new Reaper will be able to give you the flight characteristics
that you will need for your your photographic purposes. As far as the total wingspan of 98" goes,
I would suggest to make the wings removeable as I did with my Predator. To date, I have had no
problems with any wing separation.

There is another UAV air frame that would suite your purposes better because it has a very large
fuselage interior which would hold any type of photographic equipment.The problem is that there
is no RC model available so it would have to be scratch built. It's called the Pioneer and you can
find some additional info on it and other UAV's here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...erial_vehicles

lejongleur

My Feedback: (10)

PapaJeff is as usual completely right about the relative absence of free space in a Predator fuselage.

On another note of possible interest, for something like this plane, wing loading will determine your ability to laze around in the skies for a period of time with cameras, GPS, FPV, etc equipment on board. Obviously, the lower the wing loading the better. Here are some comparative figures from my own planes, and the ones you are interested in:

Model/wingspan/wing area/weight (oz.)/loading (oz/sq.in.)

Predator/63"/403/39.6/0.10 <- Glides a long way
Predator/74"/370/50/0.135
Predator/98"/504/92/0.18 <- The plane we are talking about
Electristar trainer/63"/709/88/0.12
Hangar Frenzy/61"/1066/140/0.13
Sukhoi SU29/72"/816/175/0.21 <- A tad frightening
Eratix/52"/695/65/0.09 <- Easy to fly slowly

- My point here is to show you that the first two Predators compare with a trainer in terms of reasonably light wing loading, but the new big one (at ).18 ounces/sq.in.) will have a less favorable loading, meaning that it will either have to travel faster or have relatively more power to fly than the 63" one. The Sukhoi above, with a wing loading of 0.21 ounces/sq.in., sinks pretty fast with the power off and I am frankly rather scared by it.

So, if you are looking for function over form for a UAV, get a big ugly boxy plane with big wide wings - then you can put a lot of stuff inside and hang around the skies with minimal drama and easy landings.

Just MHO...Chris

renatoa

Your figures are wrong, at least for the second version, the 74" wingspan.
50 oz weight ?! this is ridiculous ! it is 560 grams empty as it arrives, mine is 800 grams fully equiped, i.e 28 oz.

So a wingload lower than the 63" version, assuming your figures for the first are right.
More exactly 0.076 oz/sq.in., placing it in the gliders category, which match my experience flying it.

rrjwilson

Once again PapaJeff epic information. Thank you. If you are still having problems with the GlobalHawk you might want to dribble at the futuristic design of the USAF 6th Gen FQ-12. If I had the (guaranteed) talent for scratch building I would build that with twin in-runners.

Holy crap Lejongleur. That is absolutely spot on information that I will now be able to do some fun work with.

Can anyone actually confirm the wing area for the 63" as it is smaller than the 74" with exact sme wing design according to the photos but has  30" less of surface area. I really can't see how that is remotely possible given the 11" increase in wing.

Renatoa please oh please can you tell me (and everyone else ) what you have in your 74"?
I am curious as then we have a direct comparison to the 63"

renatoa

Mine is equiped with a generic noname cheap 28xx motor, not remember kV, in the 1500ish range. It draws 17A max throttle from a 3s 1800mAh Lipo, and turns a Master Airscrew 8*6 prop.
ESC 25A noname, placed in the venting cowl.
The lipo has 150 grams, found this weight best for CG. Maidened it with a 195 grams 2200 Lipo and was way too nose heavy. Because the wings / CG is very close to fuselage center, if you add something in the nose, you must add the *same* weight as lead in the tail ! So, about 30 grams of lead were needed, placed exactly under the motor. Now, with the 1800mAh pack, the 80 grams loss is very visible in the flight behaviour.
For this reason I sugest you to load it in the middle if you want to add aerial photo / video gear. For example in the landing gear area.

papajeff

You guys are the best!

Now we got the UAV seminar going strong again! Photos......would be really appreciated!

Just so you know, this is the look that my Reaper will have. Armed to the MAX and loaded with
still and video cameras.In the review, I plan to take the Nitro Reaper to Hancock Field Air National
Guard Base, Syracuse, NYwhere the Director of the Air National Guard, the Adjutant General of New
York and the 174th Fighter Wing Commander will show me the first MQ-9 Reaper maintenance field training
detachment in the USA. I will have the opportunity to photograph the Nitro Reaper with the actual full scale
Reapers. Also, we have a plan to do some amazing videos while we are there. Hopefully, all of this will make
for an interestingand slightly unusualreview article on RC Universe.

rrjwilson

63" model next to 98" model next to 64' "model"
They could all take off together for an epic advert

This help people with this and other predator models in the future and/or any UAV folks

papajeff

RRJ,

Great Mass-Load chart and I found it to be very interesting! Thanks to you, all of us can now compute
some additional stats for our UAV's and our other planes, too!That FQ-12 is really Star Wars like and
it would be nice if some of the Mfg's would think about kitting some like that design.

videomike

Hi RRJWilson

I'm curious about your Mass Load chart, but copying from your post makes the rez to low. Any way to get a better copy?

Mike

papajeff

Mike,

I just clicked on the chart from the RRJ's post to inlarge it.....then I double left clicked on the chart and it
came up on it's own and I just clicked the print icon on the top of my AOL browser screen and got a
great copy. Give it a try.

lejongleur

My Feedback: (10)

RRJ - Excellent chart and most useful. Your motor power figures are very helpful too, but bear in mind that the Sukhoi, Eratix, Extra etc., are more likely to need 170-200 watts/pound to make them lively - for example, my Eratix had 800 watts, and the 72" Sukhoi has 2,200 or more. Conversely, when I got my Electristar trainer, its stock weight (if you used the prescribed NiMh batteries) would have been 100 ounces and a wattmeter on the stock motor setup showed 465 watts, i.e. 75 watts/pound and it flew fine (no hovering though!!)


Thanks for the tabulation!...Chris

videomike

Hi PapaJeff
Didn't think to click on the picture. Where is my head? Thanks for the help.
Is it ture that your working on a RQ-4 Globel Hawk. It would be interesting to fly a EDF glider if the flight characteristics aren't pohibative to a beginner.
I'm building a Multplex Easy Glider with a EagleTree FPV setup. I chose the easyglider because it's a beginners plane.

Mike

rrjwilson

The chart was rally just for the scale flying folks to use as a comparison it is by no means a "do this" document. Using previous knowledge from others I simply collated the information to try to help people not nose dive on first attempt

The Sukhoi has been stated as being rather a handful for flying in standard form so the real information is actually the mass loading parts. The motor stuff is just to give an idea of what would be needed for scale flying (ie non 3D gentle turning).

The FQ-12 would be kick ass but its still very hush for USAF but they'll be seen more now. Hopefully a model will be out with some EDFs or in-runners so I can build a mental version for laughs

papajeff

Mike,

You are going to really like the Easy Glider. I have the Easy Star and it's just great fun flying it! I am working
on the Global Hawk EDF UAV and I hope to have it completed in the next 60 days. Hopefully, I can get the
build thread started in about 3 to 4 weeks, but I'll let you guys know for sure. Also, I have a 2.6 meter powered
Sailplane with an EDF power pod mounted on top of the fuselage, just behind the canopy. That should be an
interesting project.

lejongleur

My Feedback: (10)

Papajeff - Glad to see (in the first picture) that your work bench is marked with a stencil saying "WORK BENCH". I always have to look around for mine for a while until I find it, so this looks like a great idea !! No more misplaced workshop equipment for you !!

videomike

Thanks for the Pictures of the Global Hawk. You should give us the Stats. I have flown the ANX floater jet, an easystar clone comes with a brushless motor and ailerons, but less wing area then the Star, flies well in high winds
The EasyGlider has a 72" wing span
41.6 dm Wing area
36/988 g With recomended motor and 1800mah Batt.
20g/dm wing load
I hope RRJ with add this to this list.

Doc Holladay

Hello friends,

I have the 63" Predator and I am having some weight problems. With the auto-pilot electronics the bird weights 2.6 lbs. I keep bending the spur rod before I even get off the ground. And I bought a V tail mixer and am getting a lot of jitter out of a servo. Any suggestions? I would really like some tips on flying the bird if any one is familiar with the handling.

Thanks
Doc Holladay

rrjwilson

I've added it Mike. Was your mass 36 Oz and 988 g because that isn't correct 36 Oz is 1020.58 g. The wing loading after this is 24.53 g/dm.
I've added the Global Hawk too.
Fixed some dumbassness The red value on the Quad motor page is for the A380 for which I do not have an accurate value so I found the lowest wing area limit.

I'll update the pic when I've changed more as its for scale flying and UAV work not a one stop reference.
Also if anyone can find an A380 model with wing area information I would be most happy as I've found a model that would make a collosus of a UAV with its wingspan and mass but without knowing its wing area I cannot even think of it. If the wing area is over 425 sq in then it is under the "suggested" 0.15 Oz/sq in so should be good.

Had to use my gaming uploader as the one on here say I have a fake file path. This is back saved for more people to be able to open it but the formating has gone a bit but otherwise its ok
http://files.ukcs.net/12830/RC_plane_data.xls

videomike

Hi RRJ
Multiplex spec are 710g as a pure glider and 810g with their " standard motor setup" . I don't know if that's realistic. Mine is still in the building stage.
Got my eagletree system up and running five minutes ago (not in plane). It includes a video cam and OSD. Will post later tonight. What do I open your link with? I would like to see the Global Hawk spc's.

Mike

rrjwilson

Figures are manufacturer quoted and any differences are due to your own choices or supplier equipment. This is again just a guide.
Multiplex?
Link is for an Excel document 97-03 compatible version so more can open it

papajeff

Hey Guys,

Here is the link for the info on the EDF Global Hawk as it is available from Sonic electric;
http://www.sonicelectric.com/Merchan...roduct_Count=4

And here is the start of my build thread, which you can see that I have kinda...sortaput on the
backburner for a while. I will get back on it real soon!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7220223/tm.htm

videomike

[img][/img] How do I upload pictures? Yes these are Multplex figures including the approximate wing load of 20g/dm

Mike

videomike

Finally figured it out

rrjwilson

Ive updated the data for the EasyGlider by using the manufacturers website. 880g motorsied flight mass, 1800mm wing span.

I've looked through RC universe and many others and lots are having teething problems with the kit. It seems to need a lot of love but once its going right it goes like a rabbit. Tempted to use that as my carbon fibre template