GenesisFactor

blfischer- lol, so i am guessing that it wasn't you i've been talking to on ebay. Funny enough, he lives in TX too. ah well, we came to terms.

kazki- thanks for your info. i guess i will have to ditch the large motorized lens and go a different route. This saddens me. I kinda want to hack a camcorder lens as they are worlds lighter. I was told to put in a 480 engine, get a 4800 mAh batt to power the thing, and a 30C batt with a 40C ESC. does that sound about right for an extra pound?

helomix

I don't know where you got the idea I would be adding 39oz at. I had this system on a mini ultra stick powered by a park 450 and it flew fine, in fact the wing area is 50sq in smaller than the Predator. I read the Flying weight of the Predator is 1.2 lbs, and I will be adding approx. 7 oz of equipment and batteries..for a TFW of 27oz approx. After reading about the Park 480 I'm leaning towards it since the support for e-flight around this area is strong.


EDIT... I see you were replying to Genesis...sorry

OnTheRock

I just bought the FlyCamOne2 to use on my planes, at only 1.5oz I'm sure it will work just great... I know it's not a camera that will do a lot but from what I've seen on youTube it's good enough for me.

blfischer

There is a predator in Isreal loaded with the FPV equipment and he has commented that it flies great loaded up... still like a glider. He has a 300W monster in the back as well....

[link]http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679502[/link]

The scale looks and his performance report (in some other link) leaned me in the direction of the Predator. He hasn't responded to any PMs... I wanted to see if he really needed all that power. The e-flite 480-1020Kv is rated at 275W, so it should be plenty... and with glider like performance, I am thinking loiter times to be in the 15 min or more range with proper throttle management.

The motor is quite heavy, which made me think about doing some more research about motor power to weight ratios... as in 275W to 3.1oz for the 480, or 88.7W per oz ... is there a better motor out that puts out more or equal amount of power that weighs less? I am really suprised the motor makers don't market that spec... unless the power comes from the magnets and the winds so mass is a direct correlation to max watts which would essentially have all motors equal.

If you use a 4800mah 3S for a battery, you will probably need to have it power everything. There is barely enough room for a 20703S and a 8002S up front in mine. You might want to measure it before you get it. I can't imagine how it would fit with everything.

kaziki

It really comes down to watts per pound. You need to know how many watts you are going to put into the prop. That depends of course on the motor but also on the prop you use. If you plan on an all up weight of about 3 lbs, then you are going to need about 100 watts/lb to drive the load. You should still stiffen the wings, and the fuselage to handle the added stress. You would be sad if you ripped the wings off in flight.

I played with Drive Calculator ([link=http://www.drivecalc.de/]http://www.drivecalc.de/)[/link] and found that a Hacker A30-22S motor paired with a 40A ESC, a Kokam 3 cell 4000 mAh battery, and a 9.5x6 prop will give you about 1600g (54+ oz) of thrust and about 84 Kph (52 Mph) speed. The battery, ESC, and motor will weigh about 415g (14.6 oz). That's about 7 oz more than normal, so your all up weight would be about 53 oz.

It might work, but it would still be fast and twitchy.

papajeff

Kaziki is right; "You should still stiffen the wings, and the fuselage to handle the added stress. You would
be sad if you ripped the wings off in flight." Also, it would be wise to use a carbon fiber wing tube and
consider the method of removable wings as discussed in post # 116. And reinforce the fuselage at the
point of the wing tube insertion. This should eliminate the posibility of the wings folding during flight.
Scale type flight is the best way to insure that there will be no stress issues or other flying problems.
For sure this is not a 3D aerobat! Regarding power, the 200W outrunner that Nitro included for the
review has been just great with over 50 flights on the airframe. The flying weight is about 33oz.
so I have 100W per lb. which is perfect for just flying around like an old Turkey Vulture. For your
FPV use I would recommend any dependable 400W outrunner which will give you the extra power
needed for the extra weight you plan to add with your equipment. Just some thoughts to consider.

GenesisFactor

i am all ears to everyone as i am a newb at this. My pred won't ship until the 28th, so motor considerations and things of that nature, we have time to find the right balance. Right now, i'm trying to program and make things play nice. for installation.

kaziki, you're right, i am going to have to probably over power this pred at 100w/lb and use the computer to manage the system. I have a friend who loved building these things before fam too over (MIT for aeronautics). He has pledged to help me.

Papajeff, I've read through those posts twice now. I loved the neoD magnet idea. Hehe, ifyou got them at a 30+, and gave those wings a settling stop, i don't think even a crash would break them off lol. Unfortunately, i definitely have to go the CF+ nylon method. Everything (but the big lens) i am thinking about using is solid state and industrial strenght, so i'm hoping that it will survive a 52mph crash into soft ground as there are usually tested for 3-10ft or so on concrete. I am also considering adding an emergency parachute and the steering wheel mod. I will definitely replace the landing gear with something sturdier.

You said i need CF tubes and plates, i was just looking at them. What do you recommend?
http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?targe...category_id=93

These are my weights list (in oz)
14.9- CCD and compstar lens
3.2- FPV and ccd (it will get lighter with new lens)
3.0+6.6+7.4+4.6+3?- computer system and all major controlling parts+battery and power regulator these will be bottom mounted between the wings to add to reinforcements.

This is going to be a project and a half (or 4 individual projects). I am still researching gyro stabilization for the big cam.

Yes, there will be a ground station This is my summer project. Last summer was my carputer/stereo. I really appreciate any and everything you can add in with the info i have provided. You guys rocked throughout this thread with pics and vids and knowlegde, esp you papajeff and the guy in the UK and GG and a few others. You've given me the confidence to actually buy the plane without asking a question, i just hope that with questions, this sucker will fly

helomix

Thanks all for the help, I will definately look hard at the wing/fuse renforcement. I'm still up in the air as to motor size, I'm really concerned to the flying weight of Papajeff's uav, you say its 33oz so mine will be in the neighborhood of 36-38, which will be pushing the park480. Is there any reccomended 400w motors out there for these birds? Also, what batteries are you using/ I thought 2500mah would be fine but it seems that a lot of you are in the 4000mah range.

Edit: I think I have found the motor I need:
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4010A Its a bit heavy at 4.3 oz, but if I use a heavier main battery and mount the fpv batt and tx foward I should be able to balance everything out................ what do you think?

GenesisFactor

hehe i'm such a noob its not even funny sometimes lol. 5 mins ago, i found out where the ESC goes and exactly where you plug it in.

So i read earlier that there were 4 channels to this bad boy
1) throttle
2) elevators
3) ailerons
4) rudder

However, as this is a V tail craft, why doesn't that technically make it a 3 channel as it is integrating the rudder and the ailerons...or did i mix up something? I am picking up my servos today on ebay and my ESC. I posted a question about esky brushless motors, basically what is the difference between these motors cause i am missing something in the specs. I was looking at the monster 32, but the moster 10 has 375W as well.
http://www.nitroplanes.com/brmo.html

and these? and which should i think about getting?
http://www.nitroplanes.com/esky-brus...ner-motor.html
(i know that they are sold out, but there are other sites)

Thanks guys. this thing is really coming along . i can't wait to get the model in hand.

chrishornby

the V tail integrates rudder and elevator. You still need 2 channels to do that, with the mixing in the TX if it is computerised. Otherwise you need a V tail mixing gizmo. You still need 2 servos, so yes it is a 4 channel ship. 5 if you need a channel to control the camera
Chris

GenesisFactor

thanks chris! I will need this as i will be using the co pilot 4 from FMA. any suggestions? hehe and no servos for cam control...that's a stepper motor's job

I am settling on the Monster Power 15 Motor at 425W. The 25 size, with 550W is too strong, and the 10 at 375W is too weak. This is a Goldilocks thing i guess. However...since they are the same price, should I spring for the 25 and ease off on the throttle??

Thanks all for bearing with me. I'm swallowing a whole lot of info and processing it pretty fast. Its funny, a couple days ago, i knew zippo on RC anything...other than you push a stick and my heli flew this way and crashed unless i pushed another stick that way .

edit:
springing for the 550W

ALSO...is a folding prop a good choice, or am i too heavy to be considered a glider and should just go fixed?

RC_AVIGATOR

My Feedback: (1)

GenesisFator, Where are you getting your predator?

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

genesis, you had asked earlier about mounting a box on the bottom of the fuselage.

If you can look back my original carried a box for the camera between the mains on the fuselage. It flew just fine. My newer version has the camera with a tilt pan set up mounted same place. Doesn't seem to affect flight at all. Both also had much larger gear and wheels then the stock ones. And this didn't affect it either, flight wise.

As for all the motor suggestions/ ideas, just remember as Papa and Chris have spoken, the Predator is just supposed to fly about like a big old Turkey Buzzard, it's not a race horse nor an acrobat. Other then enough power to launch it, anything more may be a waste.

Papa, get ready I'm going to be picking your brain in a little while. I just bought another Magister, figured I'd try out Greg's VTOL.......with a twist of my own.

papajeff

QUOTE:
"Papa, get ready I'm going to be picking your brain in a little while. I just bought another Magister, figured I'd try out Greg's VTOL.......with a twist of my own."

Glacier Girl,

Bring it on, my friend! Greg's AMP'D #7 on the VTOL project has sure created a lot of interest. If the
weather cooperates this weekend, we plan to do some more flight testing and I will let you know how
it goes. You know, you can contact Greg with any comments or concepts that you may have. He's
always receptive to new ideas and would be greatly interested in your progress with a VTOL plan.

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Papa, already did. LOL Not to get too far off the forum here but minds a spinning already.
Thinking more realistic in appearance, big old 3 blades, one tractor/one pusher to eliminate torque condition, give better performance. I know Greg dissed the EDF usage instead of the tail prop set up. But I'm working it out now to not need either. Looking more heli orientated then aircraft to solve AOA he was running into in hover mode.

Should be a hoot.

GenesisFactor

GG, i would be really interested in seeing this project .

Thank you SO much for your info on the box. I'm really glad to hear it. Do you guys recommend folding props and retractable landing gear, or is that going too far?

The only reason i am thinking of the 550W one is cause it is the same price as the 425W. Also, i don't want to be in a position where i miscalculated the weight. i'm at 2.5+lbs equipment and am looking at another 2lbs in plane lol. I was kinda hoping htat i can throttle back a bit. If i am completely mistaken in my assumption, please, let me know now.

I'm looking for an air speed sensor, but chances are that will have to be through GPS alone. I am getting a MEMs sensor though for an altimeter.

GenesisFactor

OH, i called Nitro. It will be about a month before they get the Preds back in. RC-A, i am getting my pred off a seller from ebay, if he comes through.

papajeff

Genesis,

You just gotta post some photos of your equipment, plane (when you get it) and any photos
relating to your project. Now, with the motor you will be better off with the 550W with your
total flying weight of between 4 & 5 pounds. This way you will have at least 100W per lb.
which will be fine for the flight power that you need. I have used the Monster Power motors
and they are well made and operate properly, in addition to being a clone of the E-Flight
series of outrunners. Go for it!

GenesisFactor

hehe, i sure will post pictures. I started talking about htis project on friday and packages have been arriving every day all week, sometimes three at a time . I just ordered my first set of servos last night. My servo controller arrived today and i haven't even gotten a chance to open the sucker. I am waiting for my power adapter for the computer to come in (i can't find a 15W+ inverter that i want to cut yet...so i bought one). lol, my Excel spread sheet, with my costs and parts is getting larger and larger. Once that is up, i will have loooaaaddsss of pics and video as i run tests and get things under calibration.

YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

helomix

OK I ordered mine three days ago, and it was in stock. I will post the link as soon as mine shows shipped....just to be sure I get one Now the bad...apparently this dude knows how sought after these things are, I paid 129.00 for mine, I just checked and they are now 139.00, and still showing in stock. The upside is shipping was only 10.00. I think it should have shipped by now but the website did say allow 3-5 days for shipment, so like I said to be safe I will post the lnk as soon as mine shows shipped.

GenesisFactor

OMG...i'm gonna kick someone! The predator i had an arrangement on just got sold 15 minutes after being listed...and WHILE I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF PAYING FOR IT. GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I can only hope that the buyer will be a cool guy and step down. I have been on this thing for almost a week now!!

helomix

Uhhhh...that would be me I thought I would check e-bay like I always do and low and behold a Pred. for 50.00+20.00 shipping buy it now. I jumped on it and I never typed so fast lol. Anyway I got your message and thats cool with me, the only problem is that I already Paypaled the money to the seller. I contacted him after I talked to you and said it was fine, I would step down but I would need my 70.00 back but have not heard from either. Anyway to avoid double paypal fees you can Paypal me 70.00 and Jeff can ship the craft to your address. PM me for any other/better ideas as to how to handle this, I will do whatever I can to help out. Michael

GenesisFactor

LOL...thank GOD it was you... I would send you the money, as long as you let jeff know what was up. Thanks man. I was like...hooollyyyy crap...how did that HAPPEN!!?? Been down all day since. Anyways, you have email (i sent it through the forums) it has my paypal addy so you can send the goods. I'll send you my addy. You rock man, thanks a million for being understanding. If i wasn't such a poor college student, i would send you something nice. i think all i have extra is a servo lol.

the-borg

Just had first flight tried to add a picture of it but failed so it is in my gallery.

I think it was a bit gusty as it yaws a lot so need to try when its less windy
Stuart.

GenesisFactor

Well, thanks to helomix, no one was kicked lol. I'm still waiting for a reply . I talked to Innovative Designs (ID) and inundated me with all the info i would ever want to know about engines and ESCs and...wow

There was several errors in my initial calcs due to know knowing a few things. Feel free to laugh at me. First, i thought the flight weight was the weight of the model alone...not everything... So i took papa jeff's flight weight, added more power to push for my craziness, then the weight of all my craziness. Comes out to ~4lbs. @ 4 lbs, that gives me a new wing loading of 22.868 oz/ft^2, which, i was told is pretty good weight for a plane.

ID had some really good charts as well. They think i'll be set with a 3014-16 motor. With a 9x6E or a 10x5E prop it pushes 47.7oz to 56oz respectively at 10.4V. with the battery i'm hoping to get, i may get 20mins of flight time. Yes its on ebay, no, nobody bid on it, lol.

http://innov8tivedesigns.com/Scorpio...16%20Specs.htm

I just had first boot of the PC. Installed windows 2000 on it on a 1GB extreme 3 CF card. I will be using XP lite for a later iteration of it, i just don't want to deal with the hassle of calling up MS to tell them my copy is legit. This sucker will be on its way soon . kinda excited.

BTW, what landing gear did you use, Glacier Girl? Do i need to change the nose gear?