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World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

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Old 11-17-2008, 04:54 AM
  #1
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Default World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Hi guys!

I just completed my World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" (Airborne-Models is the main Distributor) that I bought locally in Central Florida from HOBBY TOWN USA who ordered on my behalf and got to them in less than 4 days!

http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=134

I inspected the model carefully and observed the pre-installed retracts, they are neat as this is the first time I own an ARF made for "Electric Power" with Retracts, however, I just do not believe that these rather small and plastic retracts will hold up in a grass field and with the World Models Recommended Power System that requires 4-Cell Li-POLYs for a Ton Tossy at 3.8lbs.

I therefore, went with the Following Power System and Configuration:

E-Flite 480 (1020) Outrunner Brushless Motor
Castle Creations ThunderBird 54 AMP Brushless ESC
Generic 3-Cell, 2200mAH, 20C, Li-POLYs
Hitec HS-82MG for Rudder, Elevator, and Retracts
Park Zone Long Lead (PKZ-1081) Servos for Ailerons

Fully Flight Ready Weight at 1lbs. - 12 1/2 oz. "or" 2.75lbs.

The Center of Gravity was DEAD ON!

A few Pictures of my Completed Model.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:58 AM
  #2
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Instead of posting lots of pictures and build process, I decided to just provide you all with a Video link that shows this model in a completed manner so, you all can have an idea what I went through during the Build-up and evlauation process to make it airborne. Of course I am waiting for good weather conditions before I maiden the Mustang and I will have another Video of that soon!

For now, here is the Video "Show and Tell" of my Completed P-51D Mustang by World Models!

http://www.vimeo.com/2262085
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:44 PM
  #3
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Hi guys!

Had a misfortune, well almost as the Mustang exhibited a Spektrum LOCK OUT as it seems like I have the older AR7000 with the long re-bind timing or at least this is what the hobby store and other RC flyers who locally fly with me told me. Here is a few pictures showing the crash results and VIDEO:

Okay, my model suffered from two major problems and here is the skinny and I am afraid that I am completely at fault.

Major Problem #1:

1A. The particular Electronic Speed Control (ESC) that I selected, one Castle Creations Thunderbird 54 has a linear 3.0 AMP maximum output onboard Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC).

1B. The Mustang has a grand total of Five (5) Servos, three of which are HS-81MG for Rudder, Elevator, Gear and two are Park Zone Long Lead Analog for Ailerons.

1C. The one HS-81MG for the Gear had never been adjusted for "END POINT TRAVEL" to make sure I am not over driving it either in the DOWN or UP position.


Major Problem #2:

2A. Those that alerted me here are correct, even though my Spektrum radio gear is brand new there is something REALLY WRONG with the fact that the Receiver can not keep BIND with the Transmitter. Both Hobby shops were kind enough to determine this irregardless of the situation with the ill fated selection of the ESC.

2B. I verified this by calling the TOLL FREE number on the Spektrum manual for Technical Support in the page that discusses Binding! They already had me in their computer system and the person on the telephone said that a shipping label was being mailed right away so, I can ship both the Spektrum Transmitter and Receiver to them and turn around is about 7 business days. I told him that I am in no hurry as I am going to install my BERG 7-Channel in my new Mustang with battle scars!

SUMMARY:

I DID NOT measure the steady AMP draw with the Full compliement of 5-Servos during static testing and I may perhaps would have seen that any margin from the 3.0 AMP output linear device onboard from the Castle Creations Thunderbird 54 AMP ESC would be on the edge or gone thereby, the first attempt to turn and activate more than 3 servos such as making a turn would have deminished the Voltage levels for the Spektrum AR7000 and produce an UGLY situation that lost of BIND would occur.

The fact that I found the model with the LED LIGHT "ON" Post Crash just tells us that right before impact the Receiver came back to bind with the Transmitter and my Continuous UP Elevator commanding really worked and reason for my model not completely destroyed!!!!! The Video shows the model coming down vertically but, recall that the model went below ground level as it landed in a water run-off area of the field and there is a very big chance that the model regained BIND and started to Level off before impact. Post Crash pictures show this!

So, the Receiver did it's job but, the ESC was overloaded with 5-Servos being activated for flight and this left a very low margin (3.5 Volts) or below for the the Receiver and possible reason for the crash.

The Bind issue is another problem but, this did not have an range issue.


Corrective Actions:

I have purchased one E-Flite 40-AMP Lite Pro Brushless ESC with Switch-Mode BEC and Advanced Programming. This device allows for up to 7 analog or 6 digital standard sized servos with the BEC on any "recommended" input Voltage, up to 6-Cell Li-POLYs!!! The cost $69.99 plus tax.

I will ship the Spektrum Radio gear to Horizon Hobby using the pre-printed mailing label and instructions as soon as it arrives and I will install the Castle Creations BERG 7-Channel Super narrow band 72Mhz FM receiver instead.

Okay,

VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please note that this power system is capable of flying this model!!!

A Special Thanks to Gerry (Simano) for taking this Video Footage!!!
http://www.vimeo.com/2271793
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:38 PM
  #4
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

This time some improvements, a much better Balanced Spinner with Aluminum back plate, E-Flite 40-AMP ESC with Switch Mode BEC onboard! Oh, yes, my Castle Creations BERG 7-Channel DSP Super Narrow 72Mhz FM Band receiver! I flew the model with my JR XP 7202 Syth 72Mhz FM Transmitter!
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:39 PM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

it was "Gerry" who suggested to use the E-Flite 480 (1020Kv) Brushless Outrunner. At the time this motor was flying onboard in my Hobby Zone Super Cub with Ailerons (Modified).

Well, I just stood there and stopped to think for a moment and everything else is History!!!

HIP HIP HOORAY TO GERRY!!!!

VIDEO!!!!

http://www.vimeo.com/2296617
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Old 11-22-2008, 04:44 PM
  #6
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Just Ordered a Servo Rate Reducer for the HS-81MG for my Retract function to slow it down for a much more SCALE operation!

http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-17...Reducer/Detail
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Again, this model is Powered by the E-Flite 480 (1020Kv) Brushless Outrunner, E-Flite 40-AMP Switch Mode Brushless ESC, generic 3-Cell, 2200mAH, 20C, Li-POLYs, Hitec HS-81MG for Retracts, Elevator, Rudder and Park Zone Long Lead analog Servos for Ailerons, it tips the digital scale at 2.8lbs. instead of the 3.8lbs. that World Models had in mind with a heavier Power System which would have required Heavier 4-Cell Li-POLYs!

Thank you Gerry (Simano) for these fantastic Pictures from this morning!
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Flight Summary:

I was able to get 2 super flight out of her early this morning and did so, with spectacular results and yes the landing was picture perfect, it roll to a stop without giving her that much UP elevator. I just allowed the model to slow down as I powered down the motor gradually then, when the model was exactly 5 feet, I cut the power completely and making SURE I DID NOT TOUCH the UP ELEVATOR she just settled down on her mains and went Full Up Elevator at this point and rolled to a stop without any hint to nose over.

Second flight was just as enjoyable, did some loops and some loop but, at the top, I kicked rudder (not ailerons) and she performed the best 1/2 roll ever!

She is just a great model with realistic appeal!!

Some pictures POST FLIGHT(s)!!!

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Old 11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Wow, what a bunch of hassles you had to go through. Nice looking plane. I see you have the PZ Corsair and I have a couple of questions for you. I've heard that the Eflite 480 motors are stronger than the Park Zone 480 motor. I was wondering if you could tell the difference in performance? I know the Mustang is heavier, but if the Eflite motor "is" stronger, does it have equal vertical to the Corsair or better?
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mrbigg

Wow, what a bunch of hassles you had to go through. Nice looking plane. I see you have the PZ Corsair and I have a couple of questions for you. I've heard that the Eflite 480 motors are stronger than the Park Zone 480 motor. I was wondering if you could tell the difference in performance? I know the Mustang is heavier, but if the Eflite motor "is" stronger, does it have equal vertical to the Corsair or better?
You are not considering the Kv (RPMs/VOLT) on two different motors. The Park Zone 480 Brushless outrunners are totally different in construction and I have been very lucky with them as the front bell of these are made of Plastic. However, many in those T-28 / F4U Corsair threads have encountered some issued with the plastic front bell of these motors.

Okay, the Park Zone 480 "Black" Outrunner delivers 960Kv and the specific motor that I am using here with the World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" is the "E-Flite" 480 that delivers much higher KV (1020Kv).

The highest AMP draw that I have measured on both my Park Zone T-28 / F4U with the Park Zone 480 have been nothing beyond 16.4 AMPs using the STOCK Park Zone 9.5 X 7.5 Black Propellers.

The World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" power system using the E-Flite 480 (1020Kv) while swinging the APC "Slow Flyer" 10 X 7 has been right at 30.4 AMPs / 313 Watts!

Therefore, we are discussing two totally different motors here.

E-Flite 480 comes in two versions, one with 950Kv and the other 1020Kv. Nothing to do with Stronger just different motor constants.
================================================== ==================

The Hassels were self inflicted and just normal first time build process as I believe that I am perhaps the very first one to build this model and fly it, well at least I have not seen any "other" posts to tell me otherwise.

Carlos[8D]


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Old 11-23-2008, 09:02 PM
  #11
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Fellow at a fly in this year had one on 6s. It was just insane!

Tommy D
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span


Quote:
ORIGINAL: tommytorino

Fellow at a fly in this year had one on 6s. It was just insane!

Tommy D
Please have him come over here and detail his setup.

Thanks!
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Old 11-25-2008, 05:44 PM
  #13
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Guys,

What a day! Flew Monday morning and then with Gerry in the Early (Monday, 11-23Evening and I am glad that we came to the RC CLub as we both were very surprised and pleased that we found the Grass Field Cut and Rolled (with Steel Rollers)!

This is the shortest I have ever seen the Grass feild at the Club this evening that even Gerry's Pitts Special with tiny wheels took off and landed like a dream!

My World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" took off in shorter Runway run and landed on her mains with a slight bounced like watching a real P-51D Mustang come in and she rolled and I was able to taxi her back to the Pilots station!

Gerry had his ART TECH P-51D Mustang and we both flew our Mustangs in formation. I must say that his ART TECH P-51D Flew as fast as my larger World Models P-51D !!!

Here are a few pictures!
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:01 PM
  #14
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Yes!!!

My new World Models P-51D Mustang took to the skys at 8:37am this morning Tuesday, November 25th, and I enjoyed placing her through the paces and again went inverted right after take-off to tuck the retract landing gear assembly within the wheel wells

Successfully commanded numerous loops and Half Loop and at the top, kicked in rudder for super smooth 1/2 rolls.

Because of the short grass and rolled with a steel roller the Mustang was able to land exhibiting a super smooth roll-out run and was able to taxi back to the feet!

Just a super morning and flight.

Okay, this makes 11 flights and Power system and all systems onboard still going on strong without any issues!!

Carlos
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Old 12-07-2008, 03:52 PM
  #15
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

I believe my new Spinner is the Great Planes plastic Spinner with Aluminum back plate and it is 3 inch diameter.

STOCK NUMBER: LXEBE8
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEBE8&P=7

You can choose any color and size by clicking:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...S3=SPINNER&S4=
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:07 PM
  #16
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Here are some pictures of re-enforcements of the Side FUSE formers at the Battery compartment. It feels much more SOLID and no flex or protrusions.

Some thoughts on what I did about the Battery Compartment area (FUSE) to re-enforce it at this location.

Please realize that before I did this re-enforcement, the Model's 1st (First) attempt to Maiden resulted in an almost NOSE first Crash into Mother Earth!! I can only Guess what was the impact such that the Rudder ripped off from the Computer Floppy Hinge material!

Therefore, please note that my Model and this "Case" is perhaps not a good example to follow such that all "new and not Crashed" models would necessarily require such re-enforcements.

I would say, that all Mustangs with a Battery Cover have the weakest area here, even my Foam GWS P-51D Mustang. However, I can tell you all for certain what would happen if my GWS P-51D Mustang would crash in the manner that this World Models did during my 1st (First) maiden Flight attempt!

Carlos[8D]
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:16 PM
  #17
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Back in November 23rd I finished working on my World Models P-51D "EP" Mustang again!!!

This time, I went to the Local Hobby Shop and Exchanged some previsouly purchased HANGER9 Pro-Lite 2.25 inch wheels and got the same brand and style but, this time I got the 2 Inch Diameter!

Because, World Models did not provide enough "L" shape main landing gear wire, I had to take out my Rotary Tool Set to remove some of the Plastic at the hub of each "new" wheel so, the Locking caps could grab the "L" end wire!

Anyway, as usual, here are more pictures of my tinkering around for the night!

IMPORTANT!! ALWAYS USE APPROVED SAFETY GOOGLES WHEN USING HIGH ENERGY ROTATORY TOOLS!!!
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:31 PM
  #18
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Thanksgiving Day RC Flying!

Just an incredible 4 hours and 15 minutes of flying during Thanksgiving Day!!!

I flew my new World Models for a total of 4 wonderful flights off and on as of course I brought other models.

Weather Conditions, RC CLub Field conditions were as perfect as one can hope for and a bonus, not that many RC Flyers showed up today!!! This fact alone helped me take my time and Top-Off (charge) my Transmitter batteries and other Flight Batteries such that I was able to "Finally" Adjust the Retract servo "Travel Adjust" feature so, I to avoid placing the Mustang inverted right after take-off for the main gear to finally go in the wheel wells within the wing assembly.

Flight Summary:
I believe the last two flights out of the 4 total with the Mustang gave me a very good indication that even with a steady wind of 6 MPH at 11:00am and that's during which the last flights occured, the Mustang actually improved it's flying characteristics. I was able to land this Mustang like it had Flaps and into the wind with picture perfect landing without any nose over issues!

Once up high, and with 6 MPH steady wind I was able to throttle down to almost 1/2 throttle and this model was a dream to fly. Very scale flying with accurate and graceful turns and manuvers. I was able to throttle up against the wind and she was hauling the mail at a good airspeed as well.

Because of the added windy conditions, I did not surpass 6 - 7 minutes of flying and the battery pack (generic 3-Cell, 2200mAH, 20C, Li-POLY) was just not even warm just slightly warm and most importantly measured 11.26 Volts right after each flight!

Right after the "Travel Adjust" for the Retract servo via the computer Transmitter, I took off yet again the 4th Flight and flipped the switch and it was like having a Servo Rate Reducer!!! It had enough Travel but, right at the last 30 degree it slowed down very nicely and I wished I had someone with Video as it looked SUPER COOL watching the Mustang gain altitude and the Retracts slowing down for a SCALE like manner!

She has now about 20 Flights and all Systems still going on strong!

As usual, some very nice pictures showing today's wonderful RC Flying.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:41 PM
  #19
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Post Turkey Day work!!!

Hi guys!

Well, as it turns out I am having LOTS OF FUN learning all about Mechanical Retract and servo selection for this purpose. As you may all know by now, this is my very first RC Airplane Model with Pre-Installed Retracts and it has certainly been an educational experience!!! I am grateful as next time I will pay more close attention to this Servo Capacity specification known as TORQUE!!!!

The Bottom Line: I was forced to remove my Scale Rubber Lite Wheels that I had installed and went back to the STOCK Light Foam Wheels as the Retract Servo, Hitec HS-81MG just does not have enough TORQUE to lift the heavier Scale Rubber Wheels but, it does have enough TORQUE for the Super Light Foam STOCK wheels that came with the model.

I am back with some neat VIDEO showing you what happens when you select a servo that will just work with the STOCK super Light Foam Wheels. Nothing wrong with the selection but, if you all later on like to replace these STOCK wheels with something much heavier then, I learned that the Hitec HS-81MG really does not have that much TORQUE to do the job with the heavier Scale "Rubber" Wheels, even though the package says Lite Wheels!

Here's the VIDEO (PART #1):
http://www.vimeo.com/2367517



Here's the VIDEO (PART #2) <-SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.vimeo.com/2367530
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:46 PM
  #20
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

December 2nd, 2008

Here are some interesting adventures I experienced searching for a Servo with the correct amount of Torque (oz.-in.) such that I can be allowed to use my target Scale Rubber Wheels that weigh 5/8oz. each and these are considered Lite Wheels

Went to the Bob's Hobby Center in Orlando, Florida

http://www.bobshobbycenter.com/

and the owner himself, Steve Thomas was kind enough to assist me in the retracts. We had a couple of laughs as he suggested the Inverted pass once the model was airborne and I told him that this was the only way to bring up the mains within the wheel wells but, that I was looking for a servo that really brought the wheels up without going inverted. He quickly went behind the counter and gave me the HITEC HS-85BB!!!

The HS-85BB is pretty much the same size, perhaps a tiny taller than the HS-81MG but, the HS-85BB delivers 42oz.-in. at the lowest voltage input (4.8V) as compared to the HS-81MG of only 36oz.-in. which means that my Mustang has an increase of 6 oz.-in. additional to allow for my target lift of almost 2oz. of Rubber Scale wheels!!!

Of course I recorded VIDEO footage of the Retract action but, first we have some pictures!!!
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
  #21
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

VIDEO of HITEC HS-85BB in action as my Retract Servo and the Rate Reducer doing it's job as well !!

Perfect HITEC servo to pick up almost 2oz. of scale HANGAR9 Lite "RUBBER" 2 inch diameter Wheels!


http://www.vimeo.com/2404291
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:51 PM
  #22
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

HITEC HS-85BB Solves the Retract issue!!


I connected my Astro Flight WATT meter to check all servos are working okay and measured the dynamic Currect draw with servos being activated all at once (control surfaces only) then, the Retract servos.

With all controls surfaces being moved, I measured nothing over 2/10th of an AMPERE. When activate the UP GEAR, I measured under 2/10th of an AMPERE.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:54 PM
  #23
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Another Flight showing the Retract Servo Rate Reducer with the new HITEC HS-85BB!

Flight Summary:

Dragged out Gerry to go early afternoon at the RC Club (Moon Port Modelers RC Club) as the weather forecast called for quick dying wind to almost Dead Calm and right at 4:00pm we left to the RC Club field. Once there, we found the field grass pretty short and dry so, as you will see the take-off and landing was perfect, well landing was almost perfect

The model veered off to the Left due to the Propeller torque as I just wanted it to go around anyway for some short coupled passes to show the effect results from the Servo Rate Reducer on the Retract Servo (HITEC HS-85BB).

The model flew just delightfully with scale looks and I had to throttle back twice to get it to go slower I am just delighted that I believe this Flight shows a complete project come to a successful conclusion. As you well see the model just floats in for a landing and pretty slow, thank goodness for Light wing loading!!!

Again, this Video is being Dedicated to Gerry (Simano) who helped with the Selection of the Power System!!

Video:
http://www.vimeo.com/2431432
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:32 AM
  #24
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

Just found out that the World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" model is after a Full Size and still operational P-51D Mustang known as GUN FIGHTER!!!

Dang, had I known this I would have placed some nice decals on the Cowling with GUN FIGHTER, oh well....

Check out the pictures!
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:57 PM
  #25
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Default RE: World Models P-51D Mustang "EP" 49 Inch Wing Span

UPDATE! RE: Spektrum DX7 Transmitter & AR7000 Receiver (Maiden Flight Radio gear)

Just got off the telephone with:

Nathan Brady
Product Support Team Member
Horizon Hobby Distributors
4105 Fieldstone Rd.
Champaign, IL 61822

He told me that they found and performed the following:

1. The Transmitter Bind Button was Caved in and it was stuck in the Bind mode and reason the transmitter lost bind with the Receiver when you turned off and back on the transmitter.

2. The Transmitter was taken apart and circuit card that has an association with this Bind Button was replaced.

3. The AR7000 Receiver was updated with the latest Firmware Software.

4. The Radio system was shipped out to me yesterday, December 11th, 2008 and he gave me the FEDEX Tracking number!

End of Status.
Carlos
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