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  1. #1

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    Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    First Electric Build. It is the 25 E

    Please suggest motor/motor mount, speed control, servos.

    I have a 2.4GHZ radio for my heli, can I buy another receiver and use the same radio for my plane?

    Anyone know of a site that has a walk through of a Hyperion 25 build?

    What else do I need to get airborne? Sorry boys been a long time since Dad and I took the gas planes out to the field.

    Regards,

    Jared

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, Is this the one that you are talking about? If it is I can give you the set-up that I'm using. Scorpion 3020-16 motor on a X mount mounted to the back of the fire-wall,( you can also use a 3020-14 or a 3020-12 or any other suitable motor that meet the requirements of a 3lb sport plane) 2- 3s 11.1v 2100mAh 16c lips's hooked in paralell, Hyperion 50A ESC with a Castle 10A BEC, 13x6.5e APC prop, Hitec HS-85MG servo's and a Spektrum DX 7 Tx and a AR 7000 Rx.

    You didn't say what brand of radio you are using, and I'm not famillar with a "Heli" Tx, but I would think that any Rx that will work with your Tx will also work in a airplane as long as it has enough channels.

    I don' off-hand know of any SU-31 build threads, but you cuold type in Hyperion Sukhoi 31 build and see if you get any hits.

    The build is fairly straight forword and I only made a couple of mods to mine. First and most important is to re-inforce the landing gear mount, Second is to fix the canopy, either by installing a canopy latch or taping the canopy at the back before you fly, The magnets on mine wern't strong enough to keep the canopy on. You may have different results.

    Hope that this helps, If I can be of any farther help, you can PM me or reply on this thread.

    Jim
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    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Thanks for the info.

    My dad just sent me a Futaba 6exap TX/RX. I don't think the RX will work for this. Can I buy a micro RX that will work with this radio?


    This is the esc I'm looking at.
    http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-10...-ESC-V2/Detail

    Why not this motor?
    http://www.rcdude.com/servlet/the-71...s-Motor/Detail


    Thanks for the help

  4. #4
    Hauling-A's Avatar
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, if the Hyperion Sukhoi 31 that you have is the same airplane as mine, then you need a much larger ESC, at least 45A or larger depending on your motors Amp draw.

    Is your Futaba radio that your Dad sent you a 2.4ghz system? or is it a 72mh? It doesn't matter as long as the Rx has enough channels for the airplane. You need at least 4 channels for the Sukhoi-31. Throttle, Rudder, Aileron, and Elevator.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jarad, The 3020-22 motor would work fine, any of those Scorpion 3020 series motors will work.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Thanks Jim,

    Also thinking about the scorpion motor that is .20-.25 equivalent rather than the .35-.40 equivalent. Thoughts?

    As you can tell It's been a while since I've flown. My dad says I'll wreck it if I try to fly solo!

    I went through your hangar, wow!

    Good to see another Washingtonian enjoy flying. Only wish I were closer to you.

    I realize this is an old model and the thread is dead, so I'll post updates and pics of my build for any nubs out there like me.


    Regards, thanks for the help.

    Jared

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    __

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions


    ORIGINAL: afterhours

    Thanks Jim,

    Also thinking about the scorpion motor that is .20-.25 equivalent rather than the .35-.40 equivalent. Thoughts?

    As you can tell It's been a while since I've flown. My dad says I'll wreck it if I try to fly solo!

    I went through your hangar, wow!

    Good to see another Washingtonian enjoy flying. Only wish I were closer to you.

    I realize this is an old model and the thread is dead, so I'll post updates and pics of my build for any nubs out there like me.


    Regards, thanks for the help.

    Jared

    Jared, as you know the lighter you can keep an airframe,the lighter it flys. By using smaller motors on 3 cells, with smaller servos you will have a lighter airplane. You can use smaller servos than the ones recommended. The Hitec HS-65MG servos are hard to beat for their size. If 3D is a major consideration that would be the way to go. A Scorpion motor in the .20 to .25 range would be good with the Hitec servos.If your radio has duel rates, I would keep the low rates pretty mild and if not I would set the throws fairly low until you get a feel for the airplane. Your Dad knows your flying ability, and if he doesn't think that you should maiden the Sukhoi, then I would find some experienced thumbs, until you can take over.

    Keep us posted with your build on the Sukhoi-31 and any concerns about it that you might have.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Hey Hey

    Finished the landing gear mod. It's not going to break. I used two pieces of 1/8 ply and epoxy, then used 2 sheet metal screws to attach the gear. I bought the radiator for scale and to help prevent wind blowing off the canopy, but I'll still put some sort of latch on it. Then I can remove those damn magnets and spare a few grams.

    The nylon nut in the right wing is stripped (was that way upon arrival), not sure how I'm going to fix it without cutting into the wing and I don't want to do that. Any ideas?

    Is there a way to safely remove ca from the monokote? I got a few smudge marks and fingerprints.

    Not real pleased with the cover job, lots of bubbles and wrinkles. Other than that, this thing is a beauty.

    Here are the electrics I'm leaning towards:

    -Turnigy 35-36C 1100kv Brushless Outrunner (Eq: AXi 2814)
    -Turnigy Plush 40amp Speed Controller
    -5 Waypoint 150-MG Servos

    Regards,

    Jared

  10. #10
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, you might be able to get a size larger thread bolt and tap it into the existing nylon nut, or if you can remove the nylon nut, then put a metal blind nut and bolt in to replace it. Take a thin piece of wire that you can bend without breaking and thread it through the hole and then put the blind nut on it and then a small wheel collar that you can tighten against the wire to keep the blind nut on. then pull the blind nut up to the balsa rib and set it. Remove the wire and thread the bolt into the blind nut, and finish pulling it all the way into the balsa rib.

    I'v had to do this on several of my airplanes that stripped the nylon nuts when I tried to tighten them.

    You can use CA debonder to remove the CA from the plastic film on the plane, it's not Monocote. It's what ever Hyperion uses to cover their planes. Try it in a inconspicuous area first to see if it reacts unfavorably with the covering or not.

    The Motor, ESC, and Servos that you are planning to use sound Ok.

    I assume that you are going to use a 11.1v 3s battery? What size prop are you going to use?

    Jared, I don't know how involved you plan to get into Electric powered aircraft, but In my Opinion, One of the best tools that you can buy is a Watt meter. It will tell you if you are in the ballpark with your motor, prop, and ESC set-up. It can save you from smoking a ESC or Motor and losing an airplane.

    Jim

    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Thanks Jim,
    Your information is extremely valuable. I will get a watt meter (might even have one) asap. I was going to thread it to the size bigger (I have the die) or cut it out, replace it with 1/4" ply. Thanks for the heads up on the ca remover. I'm embarrassed I did this. Should just be a couple fingerprints and all should be well. What a great kit, this plane is going to smoke. Until my next post, Thank you kindly.

    I am going to start with a 12x6e prop. The battery is a 11.1v 4000Mah 20-25C. What do you think? Thinking about going to parallel.

    Regards,

    Jared


  12. #12
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, I use 2 2100mAh 11.1v 3s lipo's hooked in paralell on my Sukhoi 31 and it works fine. I find it a lot cheaper to do it that way as I use the 2100mAh 11.1v 3s lipos in a number of my other planes.

    Since Hobby City doesn't list the Turnigy Motors vital stats, I can't run it on the Motor Calc to see how many Amps your set-up will draw with the 12x6 prop and 40A ESC.

    Jared, does the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC have a SBEC? and if so how many Amps does it support. Most ESC's w/SBEc's are 3 to 3.5 Amps. which is enough to even run it on 4s Batterys. I don't run my 3s batterys on the linear BEC of a ESC anymore. I lost 1 airplane doing so. I now use a ESC w/SBEC or a seperate SBEC. (SBEC) Switching Battery Elimination Circuit.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    I'm going to use a seperate BEC or even a seperate battery pack. Read too many horror stories...

    Let me try to find the Turnigy vitals for you, I'd appreciate it if you can run the motor calc.

    You flying today?

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared. All I need for the Turnigy 35-36c are the Constant Current AMPs, No Load Current AMPs, Resistance and Weight of motor. I have the Kv from your earlier post.

    No flying today, I don't have any batteries charged. Was hoping the weather was going to warm up some more and stay sunny.

    How close are you to maiden flight?

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Input Voltage : 7.4V~11.1V (2~3S Li-po)
    Kv : 1100rpm/V } within 10%
    Current capacity : 35A/30s
    Dimentions : 35mm X 36mm / 1.38in X 1.41in
    Shaft diameter : 4mm / 0.16in
    Weight : 106g / 3.74oz
    Number of poles/magnets : 14
    Recommended model weight : 1000~1900g / 35~67oz
    Power equivalent : .25 to .30 IC glow engine
    Stator Dimentions: 28x14mm
    Power: 400W+


    Doesn't list resistance. Frusterating and I can't find any data sheets on Turnigy.
    Maiden won't be for a few weeks. My business is extremely busy and I'm swamped in FINRA continuing education.
    I'm meeting the guys at Spokane Quiet Flyers this Thursday for hangar flying and dinner and hope this is a good club to join. They have 3 different fields to fly.
    Been in email contact with two of the guys, have been lots of help.

    Thanks,

    Jared

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    I found Turnigy website and they don't list the resistance or no load amps for this motor. However, the specs of this one are much closer to the hp reccomended:


    TR 35-36B 1300kv Brushless
    Current capacity: 35A/30s
    No Load current @ 7V: 1.83A
    Internal Resistance: 42 mohm
    Weight: 106g / 3.74oz

    UBEC:
    TURNIGY 5-7.5A (8~42v) HV



  17. #17
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, Using the numbers that you gave me for th TR 35-36B 1300kv Motor, Here is what I came up with using two different motor calculators. They were within 5% of each other.

    12x6 APC Prop Motor Max Efficiency 83.1%
    Motor AMPS 62
    Watts in 595.73
    Watts out 417.06
    Pitch Speed 51.8 mph Full Throttle Duration 3:53 min Eff. 70%

    11x7 APC Prop
    Motor AMPS 56.5
    Watts in 550.86
    Watts out 398.94
    Pitch speed 63.6 mph Full Throttle Duration 4:15 min Eff 72.4%

    11x5.5 APC prop
    Motor AMPS 49.9
    Watts in 494.86
    Watts out 371.92
    Pitch speed 52.9 mph Full Throttle Duration 4:48 min Eff 75.2%

    10x6 Master Airscrew Prop
    Motor AMPS 46.6
    Watts in 465.25
    Watts out 355.82
    Pitch speed 61.3 mph Full Throttle Duration 5:09 min Eff 76.5%

    Jared. As you can see non of the props that I tested were within the Max amps of the motor which is 35AMPS or your speed controller which is 40A. The only real way to tell what your set-up will pull is using a watt meter, which will give you the static amps and watts in.For more detailed information you would have to use a on-board logger.

    TR-35-36B 1300kv
    Current Capacity: 35A/30s
    No load Current @7v: 1.83A
    Internal Resistance: 0.042mohm
    Weight: 106g / 3.74 ozs

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    So the motor/prop combos you tried won't work. Can you kindly explain further?

  19. #19
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions


    ORIGINAL: afterhours

    So the motor/prop combos you tried won't work. Can you kindly explain further?
    Jared, With the numbers that you supplied for the TR 35-36B. The Motor calc said that the normal sized props are pulling too many AMPS. I think that the numbers are wrong. Like I said in the previous post, the best way to determine what your set-up should be is to hook it up to a watt meter. You can also go ahead and fly your set-up without testing for AMP draw, but you take a chance of burning up a ESC and Or your motor. As long as you are running a seperate BEC or receiver pack for the Rx and Servos, you will still have control of the airplane.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Thanks,

    What calcs are you using? I fixed the stripped nut issue. I rethreaded it. I broke the nut out if its mount while doing so, so I cut out a rectangular piece of 3mm ply, traced the nut and cut out the shape of it. then I glued it in, threaded the bolt through and let the glue dry. Perfect and I bet is stronger.

    With the calcs I'm hoping to find a motor/esc/prop setup prior to purchasing.

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    OK here's data on a motor that is very similar to the scorpion you are using. The program is motocalc. This data looks much better and should be a great starting point.


    Motor: Model Motors AXI AC2826/10; 920rpm/V; 1.7A no-load; 0.042 Ohms.
    Battery: Kokam 2100SHD (20C); 3 cells; 2100mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0114 Ohms/cell.
    Speed Control: Generic Brushless ESC; 0.006 Ohms; High rate.
    Drive System: Generic 11x7in Prop; 11x7 (Pconst=1.31; Tconst=0.95) direct drive.
    Airframe: Hyperion SU-31 25e; 410sq.in; 40oz RTF; 14.1oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.038; Cl=0.19; Clopt=0.42; Clmax=0.89.
    Stats: 115 W/lb in; 92 W/lb out; 21mph stall; 30mph opt @ 62% (26:35, 76°F); 45mph level @ 88% (13:20, 89°F); 1637ft/min @ 37.7°; -349ft/min @ -7.5°.

    Possible Power System Problems:

    The estimated steady-state still-air battery temperature at the hands-off cruise airspeed and throttle setting (approximately 137°F) is higher than the suggested maximum temperature for this cell type (122°F). This could result in battery pack damage unless adequate cooling airflow is provided and/or run times are kept short. A lower current would also decrease the battery temperature.
    Current can be decreased by using fewer cells, a smaller diameter or lower pitched propeller, a higher gear ratio, or some combination of these methods.

    Power System Notes:

    The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (26.6A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (20.2A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (120.3A), thus making effective use of the motor.

    Aerodynamic Notes:

    The static pitch speed (51mph) is within the range of approximately 2.5 to 3 times the model's stall speed (21mph), which is considered ideal for good performance.
    With a wing loading of 14.1oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have trainer-like flying characteristics. It would make an ideal trainer, for use in calm to light wind conditions.
    The static thrust (43.6oz) to weight (40oz) ratio is 1.09:1, which will result in extremely short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and vertical climb-outs. This model will probably be able to perform a hover or torque roll.
    At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (24.4oz) to weight (40oz) ratio is 0.61:1, which will give steep climbs and excellent acceleration. This model should be able to do consecutive loops, and has sufficient in-flight thrust for almost any aerobatic maneuver.

    General Notes:

    This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
    These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

  22. #22
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    http://www.s4a.ch/eflight/motorcalc_e.htm http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp Jared, these are the two Motor Calc's that I use. The one that you found has more Info then the both of these.

    Jim
    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Ok so the Turnigy35-48B looks to fit the specs better without *****g it out all the time. Here's info from Eflight Motocalc:
    Motocalc produced same results within 5-10%

    11x7 APCE
    Motor AMPS 27.05
    Watts in 276.14
    Watts out 228.06
    Pitch speed 55.4 mph Full Throttle Duration 5min 6sec min Eff 76%


    This is the reccomended HP set up same calc:
    12x6 APCE
    Motor AMPS 33
    Watts in 336.16
    Watts Out 284.45
    Pitch speed 47.8 mph full throttle duration 4min 22sec min eff 77.7


    What type of min eff (batt+controller+motor+10%???) do you look for?

  24. #24
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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Jared, Here's the set-up that I use on my Hyperion Sukhoi-31. Scorpion S3020-16 812kv, 2 2100mAh 16c Lipos hooked in paralell, Hyperion 50A ESC w/4A SBEC, APC 13x6.5e prop. Motor Amps-31.3, Watts in348.08, Watts out259.13, pitch speed44mph, EFF78.1%, F.T,D. 4:02 min, Mixed flight time 6:83 min. I have my flight timer on my Tx set to 7 min. I determined that this was safe after seeing the mAH that the charger put back in the battery, ie: 2100mAh battery, charger put back 1600 mAh.

    My Sukhoi-31's AUW is 49 ozs and the plane flys very good using the set-up above. If I get the urge for more power and Un-limited (well as far as I can see) Verticals, I put in a 4s lipo and change the prop to a 10x7x3 blade Master Airscrew prop.

    Jim.

    \"Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if you just sit there.\" Will Rogers

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    RE: Hyperion SU 31 Build Suggestions

    Ok good stuff. I'll keep messing with the calcs until I find a setup I feel comfortable with.
    I'm going with an esc that is probably overkill but after all the reading too many people loose planes to burning them up.
    Thanks for the nuggets, I'll keep you updated.


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