Electric General Discussion General Discussion forum about rc electric related aircraft, accessories, flight, tips, etc.

Forward / Reverse Control Needed For Electric Motor

Reply

Old 12-10-2016, 07:32 PM
  #1  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Question Forward / Reverse Control Needed For Electric Motor

Hello!

First off, I am brand new to this site. If I make mistakes in using this site......, please forgive my "ineptness!"

Anyway, I am constructing an R C Rescue Boat / Airboat to take along with me when I fly my Flyzone Beaver DHC-2 on floats, just in case of a water mishap with the airplane.

I want to have both forward and reverse control of the "PowerUp 480 1000KV Outrunner Brushless motor that I am installing on the airboat. That would make maneuvering the airboat a whole lot simpler - if needed - when approaching a stricken aircraft. I will be using an 11.1V 2200 MAH Lipo battery with a 40A ESC for power and speed control.

My question is this: Does anyone know of / or a way to "Add Reverse" to this motor problem portion of this project? All help and ideas are appreciated!

Thank you very much.
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 11:50 AM
  #2  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Easy, use a car ESC, they have both forward and reverse. The motor does not really care.

Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 07:58 PM
  #3  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hello and thank you for your response.
I have received several responses and using a car ESC was a common idea among the responses. However, I decided to not use the "Surface Transmitter" due to their limited and short "range." If my aircraft was disabled out at say 100 yards or more away, a Surface Transmitter would not have enough range to keep the airboat under control.
I have come up with a way to use vectored thrusting to rotate the engine 180 degrees so it will be able to paush and pull the airboat in all directions.
But thank you again - very much - for your helpful suggestion!!
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 10:24 AM
  #4  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

It is just like an air plane / helicopter ESC. You set the throttle in the middle for 0 throttle and up is forward and down is reverse. Or you can just use the right stick. Up and down are throttle and left and right is just that, left and right. No need for a surface radio. You can also add the center return spring to the throttle channel if you wanted too.

I have had my iT4 past the 100 yard mark many times driving my FPV Slash around. Range of the car radio has not been a problem. The video range has been my issue.

Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 03:59 PM
  #5  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Buzz.

Thanks again for your insight and help here. :-) It is very much appreciated by me!!

Yes, I would like to stay away from a surface radio - if at all possible. So I guess that I will obtain a car ESC and go from there. Any suggestions on a good car ESC? I have found a Axial AE-5 Brushed Waterproff ESC with Reverse at Tower Hobbies. It is $38.99! I am wondering if there would be something less expensive that would do the job though. However it being waterproof could be a good thing!

My Dehaviland Beaver has a wingspan of 60". So it is relatively easy to fly it at a rather long distance away and Still visually keep the plane oriented. Being able to use an "Aircraft Radio" - with a car ESC for the airboat. gives me assurance that I should be able to "rescue" the plane from quite a long distance away.........., if I would ever need to recover it with the airboat!

Now, I have been thinking about FPV for my aircraft also....., but my concern is similar to yours as you mentioned the range of the video in FPV. I have discovered though that one can obtain a "stronger" or more "Powerful System" for FPV............., however, as I understand it, one needs to have a HAM license to operate that equipment legally!

Anyway - on to a different subject. It is getting down to 17 degrees below zero here tonight and then up to a balmy 4 degrees below zero tomorrow - Sunday. That will be a little brisk, but there might not be any mosquitoes around out pestering people. I am not sure where high deserts,CA is - as I could not find it on the Internet, but if you are in CA, I am hoping that you will have a little warmer weather than here in MN.

So thank you again Buzz. I hope that all is well in your world and as the Holidays get closer, I hope that you have a good one, no matter what you believe in or do not believe in...

Please take good care.

Jim




[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR="bgcolor: fffff0"]
[TD]Axial AE-5 Brushed Waterproof ESC w/Reverse[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 05:17 PM
  #6  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

If I was to make an air boat as a rescue boat, you would not need a big motor, ESC prop combo.

This is a budget brushless setup. Using an 8x6 prop and a 3s battery should be enough to get there and back without much effort.

ESC
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/tracksta...of-esc-v2.html

Motor
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ntm-prop...t-version.html

Or if you want a little more power 9x6 prop
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/ntm-prop...0kv-motor.html



Here is a budget brushed ESC.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbywin...-for-1-10.html


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 06:29 PM
  #7  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Again Buzz.

Wow..., you are a veritable fountain of information and I certainly enjoy reading your correspondence!! So thank you again.

Now, just so you know, I do have a 1000kv motor with an APC 9 x 6 prop and a 3 cell Li-po that has a whole lot of "oomph." I liberated these components out of one of my flat foamies that I no longer fly. So I am working on mounting these components to the airboat.

The ESC that you shared is very interesting. I have purchased some items from HobbyKing in the past. The Turnigy TrackStar programming card is also reasonably priced and has some good reviews. I will probably send them an order for the ESC and the Programming Card in the future.

As for now, I am working on the Air Rudders. I will be making them airfoil shaped and am locating the pivot point at about 25% of the chord line. From what I have gathered, a good rule of thumb for dual air rudder location - distance apart - is that when one has put in 45 degrees of deflection that the trailing edge of one rudder should be very close to the leading edge of the opposite rudder, when looking directly face on - fore or aft - of the center line of the airboat.

The rudders themselves should be located to gather as much of the prop blast as possible. Once that location is determined, then one can figure out the size of the rudder itself. So if I use that 9 inch prop, then I will want to locate the rudder pivots about 5 inches apart. That should be a good starting point anyways!!

Once again Buzz, thank you so much for all of your help here.

Jim
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2016, 06:00 PM
  #8  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I did see one air boat that had the air rudder setup so they could be closed to act as a thrust reverser. Not sure how he did it though. The article did not go into how he set them up and it was a long time ago. Maybe add a channel that moves a cavoer in place. Might not have left and right, but would slow or back the boat up a bit.

There are many ways to skin a cat, with enough cats we can figure out almost anything.

Note, no real cats were harmed in this thread.


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2016, 09:48 AM
  #9  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Buzz.

That is an interesting design you mentioned with thrust reversing on the air rudders!! that must have taken some "doing" to accomplish that.

I have abandoned my idea of 180 degree motor rotation for forward and reverse. I am going to "simplify" things and obtain a car ESC with forward and reverse. I have tested the 'boat' - now in my house - and it goes well on cement and carpet. The air rudders are very effective and it turns well. Next, I will put it in the bathtub to see how it sits for balance with the radio gear aboard.

I will not be able to test it on any body of water here until spring and the water thaws out. But I might run it on the snow here in the back yard to see how that goes :-)

As I am not looking for speed out of this craft, I feel that it should work well for pushing - or using the old - tie a line to the stern and add some fishing bobbers to the line and then circle the stricken craft a few times and then pull it back to shore!!

I do want to fashion some type of propeller guard though, so I do not accidentally "chew" up any parts of the plane when approaching the stricken plane : - ( lol!! Hopefully all will go well though.

Anyway Buzz, have a great one. Thank you again - very much!!

Jim
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 09:25 AM
  #10  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Prop guard, get one of those cheap replacement BBQ grills and bend to shape.

Have a hook on the top of each float. Use a coat hanger bent into a diamond shape, lifted and lowered by a servo. Catch the hook on the float and pull to shore. Might not be possible if to fat away to see. To launch, drop, let go of the bobbers, you could use a glider tow release setup.

I am sure as you build it, you will figure out the engineering issues as they come up. Post a couple pics when you get it all setup and working.


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 02:03 PM
  #11  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi again Buzz.

Yeah, I like the idea of the BBQ grill on board for a prop guard........lol, but Now....., you do have me thinking of ways to engineer a decent guard by other means than totally building one from "scratch!" Good thing that there are lots of cats around to skin.........lol!! And yes, as you state........, no real cats have been skun in this thread!!

I am also going to convert the bottom of the boat from a pure flat bottom to a catamaran style. This should give the boat a little better "steering ability" - in water. I did test the boat on the floor here and it goes well on cement and also carpet....., but water will be different.

This is turning into a fun - or at least interesting - project for this winter and helping to pass along some of these very cold winter days! Oh, here are some pics. Obviously they are not of real good quality, and they are of the 'boat in this early stage of development. I plan to paint the boat white and then add the Coast Guard orange slant with the blue stripe on the sides and over the forward deck. I also need to work out a waterproof system and location for the ESC, Receiver and Battery.

I also like your idea too for the: Boat Retrieval Apparatus. That could work well - again as you say, if the plane is in a little closer. It would be neat to see in action!! And I will be adding two vertical knees (towboat style) to the bow of the 'boat for pushing on the plane if needed.

The 'boat is 12" wide. Overall length is 32" with a current depth of 2" but building up the bottom of the 'boat - catamaran style - will add 2" more of depth on the sides of the craft. I have mounted a 1000 K V out runner motor with an APC 9 x 3.8 Slow Fly prop.The twin rudders are 3" wide and 8" tall and are very effective "on land". I mounted each rudder 2" out from the motor center line with the leading edge of the rudders located 4.25" in back of the trailing edge of the propeller. This rudder location seems to to capture a vast majority of the prop wash from the 9" prop!

So thanks again Buzz. I always enjoy reading your comments!!

Jim
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Airboat Picture 1 1226161411_1 (1).jpg
Views:	11
Size:	228.1 KB
ID:	2194378   Click image for larger version

Name:	Airboat Picture 2 1226161412_1.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	172.4 KB
ID:	2194379   Click image for larger version

Name:	Airboat Picture 31226161410_1.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	284.8 KB
ID:	2194380   Click image for larger version

Name:	Airboat Picture 4 1226161414_1.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	156.8 KB
ID:	2194381  
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 06:29 PM
  #12  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Here are three more pics of the finished "Floatplane Rescue Airboat". The craft works great in the bathtub....., lol!! As all of the water is froze here, it will be Springtime before the maiden voyage test. The "dish" on the deck of the 'boat' is a Tupperware container and it holds all of the electrical components: the battery, receiver and ESC.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture0119171837_1.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	118.2 KB
ID:	2197361   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture0119171838_1.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	85.7 KB
ID:	2197363   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture0119171839_1.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	76.3 KB
ID:	2197364  
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 09:56 AM
  #13  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I would like to be rescued by a nice boat like that.

Are you going to make a pull rope made out of piece of pool noodle and string? Pull it behind the boat, do a few circle around the plane, pull plane to shore?


Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 10:39 AM
  #14  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Buzz.

Thank you for the mention of the "nice boat!" That was very kind of you!!


And also, thank you for the idea of using a piece of pool noodle and a string to circle the plane a few times. That is a great idea and I will use it!!!!! I even happen to have some left over pool noodles - from a totally different and land based project - that will now come in very handy!!!!!


So now, I am looking forward to Springtime and the flying season........., along with testing the Airboat for functionality and usability.


Thank you again for your wonderful suggestions here.


Jim
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2017, 11:42 AM
  #15  
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,701
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Now you just need to come up with some small silhouettes of an airplane you can paste on the side of the boat for every one you rescue. After you get 5 you can be a "ACE" rescuer.

Noodles away!!!

How about putting a grumpy old merchant Marine on board to yell orders ?

Glad I could help.

Buzz.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2017, 05:29 PM
  #16  
planemann
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Wow Buzz, you are "really using your noodle" here.................., lol!! The 'Ace' thing is very clever too. I think I could shrink down some aircraft pics and produce something interesting. I could get some decal paper and then print my own silhouettes to record each successful rescue mission!! And then maybe add some Nose Art also to the craft!! Hmmmmm, a Mermaid would look good on there though, even if the 'boat never sees use on an ocean, as it will only see water on the lake here in the Midwest!!

Yeah, I agree that it should have some sort of Captain on board too. I do model railroading in H O Scale and I had wondered a couple of times just what scale this craft is. I do know that that some "Real Airboats" are 16 - 18 feet long. So, if I would take a moment to do some math, I could ascertain......, somewhat close anyway......, what height figure would look somewhat believable. Also, I did think of trying to make a small American flag to fly off of the stern. Don't know if that will happen though.

Your thoughts and ideas are always welcome Buzz. So thank you again for corresponding and also for your interest!!!!!

Jim
planemann is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service