What motor is better than GWS?
08-30-2005, 09:59 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, IL
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What motor is better than GWS?
Let me guess...all of them?
Heres what I'm thinking...The GWS motor I'm using, a 350C, is like an $8 motor. There has to be someone out there making a better motor thats not brushless or that requires lipos to run. What I'd like to find is a direct replacement for this motor that I can still run off of nimh thats say $20 or so. I guess the key is finding a more efficient motor that can do more with the power I'm providing and one that keeps the amps reasonable at the same time.
Heres what I'm thinking...The GWS motor I'm using, a 350C, is like an $8 motor. There has to be someone out there making a better motor thats not brushless or that requires lipos to run. What I'd like to find is a direct replacement for this motor that I can still run off of nimh thats say $20 or so. I guess the key is finding a more efficient motor that can do more with the power I'm providing and one that keeps the amps reasonable at the same time.
08-31-2005, 07:41 AM
#2
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 7,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
Actually... That IS the best brushed motor available in that size without going brushless. It's the same as the Graupner Speed 300, or any other 300/370 motor, because they're all made on the same line in the same factory.
You don't HAVE to go brushless and LiPoly; no motor "requires LiPos." I have a friend who replaced his GWS EPS350C drive with a Balsa Products BP12 brushless combo. He's using 8-cell KAN650 NiMHs, and the performance difference from stock is tremendous. Same weight, but with a more efficient motor, more power is getting to the prop.
You don't HAVE to go brushless and LiPoly; no motor "requires LiPos." I have a friend who replaced his GWS EPS350C drive with a Balsa Products BP12 brushless combo. He's using 8-cell KAN650 NiMHs, and the performance difference from stock is tremendous. Same weight, but with a more efficient motor, more power is getting to the prop.
08-31-2005, 04:12 PM
#4
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
because there are 3 wires coming out of a brushless motor, not 2, so you can't connect a brashed esc to a brushless motor. They just work in completely different ways.
09-01-2005, 08:46 AM
#5
My Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Spencerport, NY
Posts: 7,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
Check out the combo. With the brushless motor and controller, it only costs around $50. Todd's Models has the "BP21" combo on sale for like $30 right now as well. The BP21 is a little heavier, but with an 8x4 prop, should perform similarly to the BP21 if the data they provide is correct.
Yes, you need a brushless ESC to run a brushless motor. No, you can't run a brushed motor with a brushless ESC, or a brushless motor with a brushed ESC, and there is no way to convert any of them... A very common question.
The reason it doesn't work is because the way the two different motors "commutate" is completely different. Commutation is the process of energizing the different electromagnets in the motor in a sequence to make the motor spin. On a brushed motor, there is a segmented ring which the brushes rub against. Depending on which segments the brushes are touching, a different electromagnet is energized. On a brushless motor, the commutation is done by the computer in the speed control. It sends electricity through two of the three wires at a time, switching to different combinations of two wires in a sequence to make the motor go around.
Aside from the obvious of how to connect three wires to two wires when you mix and match, it simply won't work. If you connect a brushless motor to a brushed controller, you are basically creating a short circuit, and you'll damage both the motor and ESC. Connect a brushless ESC to a brushed motor, and all the motor will do is twitch.
Yes, you need a brushless ESC to run a brushless motor. No, you can't run a brushed motor with a brushless ESC, or a brushless motor with a brushed ESC, and there is no way to convert any of them... A very common question.
The reason it doesn't work is because the way the two different motors "commutate" is completely different. Commutation is the process of energizing the different electromagnets in the motor in a sequence to make the motor spin. On a brushed motor, there is a segmented ring which the brushes rub against. Depending on which segments the brushes are touching, a different electromagnet is energized. On a brushless motor, the commutation is done by the computer in the speed control. It sends electricity through two of the three wires at a time, switching to different combinations of two wires in a sequence to make the motor go around.
Aside from the obvious of how to connect three wires to two wires when you mix and match, it simply won't work. If you connect a brushless motor to a brushed controller, you are basically creating a short circuit, and you'll damage both the motor and ESC. Connect a brushless ESC to a brushed motor, and all the motor will do is twitch.
09-01-2005, 09:45 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, IL
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
Is this what you're referring to?
http://www.toddsmodels.com/Brushless...ors/golden.htm
Is the golden brushless the same as the BP-21? This combo is on sale for $28.99
Whats the deal with this...
http://www.toddsmodels.com/Specials/crazysale.htm
About half way down the page it shows the combo put then it says in red letters...
Motor and controller work fine. If pushed to hard they will fail.
Then when you click on the combo it says to only use Prop: 6X4, 7X3, 7X4
I don't see a motor spec link anywhere but I can't imagine that combo would put out much more than 10 oz of thrust, would it?
Or where you taking about something else? I didn't see any BP outrunners on the page.
And what is a "Jati" ESC? Is that a generic Jeti ?
http://www.toddsmodels.com/Brushless...ors/golden.htm
Is the golden brushless the same as the BP-21? This combo is on sale for $28.99
Whats the deal with this...
http://www.toddsmodels.com/Specials/crazysale.htm
About half way down the page it shows the combo put then it says in red letters...
Motor and controller work fine. If pushed to hard they will fail.
Then when you click on the combo it says to only use Prop: 6X4, 7X3, 7X4
I don't see a motor spec link anywhere but I can't imagine that combo would put out much more than 10 oz of thrust, would it?
Or where you taking about something else? I didn't see any BP outrunners on the page.
And what is a "Jati" ESC? Is that a generic Jeti ?
09-03-2005, 09:13 AM
#7
Senior Member
My Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Grinnell ,
IA
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
I can't answer your questions xray, but that sure is an attractive price. I wish someone that knows would answer you. I would like to order one myself, if it gets positive comments. My guess is the controller has nothing to do with JETI at all. It is probably called a jati to confuse us Americans. Never-the-less I might order one anyway. I think I will call Toddsmodels and talk to them Tuesday morning before I order. I will let you know if I learn anything.
Ron
Ron
09-03-2005, 01:07 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shorewood, IL
Posts: 566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: What motor is better than GWS?
Yeah, I'd love to buy it myself. I hoped someone would have chimed in here about what to expect with that combo. I'm sure the two items (ESC and motor) work fine together. My concern is about the props they are recommending. Kinda defeats the purpose if I can only get say 10oz of thrust out of it, I might as well keep the GWS 350C. Let me know what you find out. I'm also worried when I can't find a motor spec sheet.
