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3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Old 09-08-2005, 02:35 PM
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aflipz
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Default 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Hi everyone, There are no threads on this model yet and i figured i'd start one. If anyone has any feedback and information on this very promising model feel free to post it here.

I ordered mine a week ago and should have it any day now. I will probably have a mouthfull to say about it when i do. I'll try to post some pics of the build.

Can you paint depron? i was planning on using the paint i used on my fomosa (faskolor paint for lexan, flexible, water based, light when dry, can be airbrushed or plain old brushed/sponged on)

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=451


Stock was 70 a week ago, 65 as of today according to their website.

Why i'm excited about this plane; It claims to be a fast pattern plane And a light and maneuverable 3d plane, thank's to depron's low weight and high stiffness. And i wanted a depron plane but not one of those flat ones with no airfoil. On top of looking better this allows for much better flight characteristics. It also promises to fly steady even in winds wich is a plus.

here are the electronics i selected for the job;

hitec's new 5 channel rx 9 grams 1 mile + range
hitec hs-50's
tp pro lite 1320mah 3 cell
cc phoenix25 esc

motor; now this will change when i find a better 3d motor (larger prop, lower rpm) but for now i will use a bp21 outrunner with apc e 8x4 prop. 21oz thrust. It should be ballistic but hovering will be difficult. If i have any luck in my research or testing done with this motor i might try to use a 2 cell 1320, shedding an ounce, and spin a larger prop at lower rpm, maintaining load and thrust at acceptable levels. this would mean by changing prop and pack i could have a full out light 3d plane and a very fast, still very light pattern plane.
Old 09-08-2005, 04:03 PM
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twinturbostang
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

aflipz: Can't wait to see pics of your Sabre. I should be receiving my Ultrafly Extra 300 tomorrow (we talked about these planes in another thread). I'm looking forward to how they perform.

As far as painting Depron, yes you can. But you have to be careful because some types of paint can eat the foam. Actually, from what I've heard, it's not so much the paint that eats the foam but the propelant used in the "aerosol" spray cans. So air brushing is a better option. Or painting it by hand with a brush. But the air brush I'm sure leaves a much nicer finish. This is exactly what I did with another project that was made out of 3mm depron. I airbrushed the paint on and it worked great. I tried several kinds of paint also (air brush specific paint, and Testors model paint) and none had any foam eating issues. I plan on painting my Extra the same way.
Old 09-08-2005, 09:07 PM
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aflipz
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Of course i remember you twinturbostang!

thank's, the paint i wanted to use is airbrush specific also. it's acrylic and water based, should work just fine.

I got a delivery attempt notification today, the wierd thing is the doorbell never rang and i was here all day Anyhow I will have it tomorow too.

i didn't mention this yet, but as you can see by my profile, i am canadian, french canadian at that, so please forgive my grammar, spelling, inventing words, insanity etc as this thread devellops... That's my excuse and i'm sticking to it!


p.s. it's not the propellant that melts the foam, it is in gas form and is inert, it's the liquid solvent that disolve paint, they are such good solvents that they also disolve some plastics/foams. Acrylic paints are just pigment particles suspended in a water base, just wondering how it adheres to this new to me surface (molded depron).
Old 09-08-2005, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Seems to adhere just fine. I first started with the "Testors" style model paints, thinning it a little with water. I found it was difficult to obtain the right consistency though. Either too much water and the air brush just got the foam wet, or not enough water and it comes out all clumpy and stuff. So I moved to the air brush paints which are already mixed for the proper consistency of air brush work. But other than that, I haven't had any problems.

BTW, I've gotten "supposed" delivery attempts also while I'm at home. No knock on the door, no ring of the doorbell. Ain't the mail system great?!?!

Oh, I've got my servos. Futaba S3108's. Tomorrow I get the plane, motor, and receiver. And tuesday I'll be getting the lipo pack. Waiting on the esc, which is on backorder at the moment. But should be back in stock by the weekend. I'll try not to clog up your thread with stuff about my extra though. Once I start working on it, I'll make a build thread for mine.
Old 09-09-2005, 09:16 AM
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aflipz
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

I got it today, took it home, openned the box; (not happy)

it ships in a bag, the roll of decals, that weighs 120 grams, is loose in the bag, and since postal guys don't understand the meaning of fragile the rudder and cowl are badly damaged by the intertia of the roll of decals moving around. I was able to repair most of the damage, cosmetic flaws remain.

The plane's flimsy, hand cut parts lack precision and the instructions are not too clear on what adhesives to use ( they mention UHU about 10 times, uhu is a brand name not an adhesive type, UHU makes at least 10 different kinds of adhesives) But once you glue everything together it becomes very stiff. I am using epoxy. Sparingly applied with a toothpic.


you couldn't tell on the website pictures but the plane ships with every "molded" part split down the middle, somehow i'm suposed to be able to glue all these seams flawlessly. well they are only 1mm thick and the 2 fuse halves are not even close to fitting together, there are 1mm to 5mm gaps all around the fuse, it needs a bit of tlc to fit nicely. i"ll post some pics i'm snapping as i go along later.
Old 09-11-2005, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Ok so i built it. It was very difficult to assemble correctly as per every single part is molded (or vaccum formed) in 2 halves. making sure nothing warps as the adhesives set is primordial. The hinges are unwaxed dental floss that you glue in a criss cross manner. this is not easy but it works a lot better than it sounds and is very very light.

my all up weight is about 12.5 oz. It would have been much lighter had i used gws glue rather than epoxy. Or had i at least mixed in 50% micro balloons in the epoxy while building. Next time i'll use gws glue.

The maiden; I was alone so i just did a "range check" by leaving the airframe on the ground and walking away with the antenna down. 200 feet away the control surfaces worked only when i moved the sticks. I couldn't turn the prop because i dodn't use landing gear.

Hand launched it. looks like a fine flyer, but i got severe radio glitching as soon as i got in the air. it was very very bad. I'm surprized i was able to take it down without damage. I tried it again and it did the same thing. I was about 20 feet overhead, killed the motor and coasted into the wind or just hovered it down with no power. I never in my life saw a plane descend so slowly. I'm talking blimp speed here. I am truly impressed. This will be amazing to fly when i get the radio thing figured out.


Upon the second landing wich was smooth as butter on a hot summer day, i discovered my right aileron servo had stirpped gears. I don't know how this hapenned. If only girls stripped as easily as these hs-50 servos...

Anyway, the gears and servos are out of stock at my lhs so i took the remaining elecrtonics minus one servo and put everything in my formosa. I went for another range test today. alone... Since my formosa has landing gear i taxied it to about 200 feet away with the antenna down and no glitching what so ever.

Look at my rx in the last pic, it's hard to grasp exactly how small it is, in my hand next to a penny you get a sense of it's dimension. Ok. so it's a canadian penny. But though it's worth 18% less and a u.s. penny it's exactly the same size... (no, i don't have giant hands)

the possible reason for my glitching; Hitec provides a spool to shorten the antenna lead by twisting 18 inches of antenna onto it. I did as directed but might have put more like 22 inches on the spool. I can't see any other reason, all my electronics except the brushless bp21 outrunner are top of the line. It's gotta be that spool thingy. i removed it and now leave the full length hang out the fuse. Ill try it again later and give you a update.

I'd be really disapointed if this receiver didn't do what it claimed...

i have no complaints on the plane though, Sure it isn't perfectly cut and leaves little gaps sometimes, i have found the best way to get rid of them is to fill them with 3:1 ratio micro balloons to epoxy. Light, white and perfectly smooth!


p.s. sorry about the low res my cam aint so good...
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Old 09-11-2005, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Wow you work fast! Any pics of it completed?
Old 09-11-2005, 05:03 PM
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aflipz
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

No sorry, i want to get it airbrushed first... i can't show it naked in public

So... the glitching; i had everything in my formosa, i was alone with no one to hold the plane so i went to a vacant parking lot and "taxied" it 200 feet away, did tests of all control surfaces and nothing happenned unless i asked it to; seems fine right? Wrong.

I went to the field, handlaunched, flew about 100 meters away; worse glitching yet at abouy 75% throttle. this time i couldn't save it it went down and smashed to oblivion. I had absolutely no response what so ever. it was doing some very tricky aerobatics going down.

Later i took the esc, battery rx, servos and did some more tests, walking away from the tx with the throttle at 50% Glitching starts at 30 feet and just gets worse. The motor got warm and the phoenix 25 got so hot that the shrinkwrap melted. Not normal, this is a 25 amp esc capable of 40 amp bursts, no way 1/2 throttle on a 13.1 amp motor (wot) with the recommended 8x4 prop caused that... Unless it's deffective.

I took it out of the equation, put a castle creations mamba inrunner motor on it; same problem with the glitching and the heat. This motor draws about 15 amps when loaded, it was running with just a pinion gear wich means minimal load. So, it seems pretty unlikely that the motor is at fault. Is the problem the esc or the rx or both? i'm at a loss here and have run out of equipment to do tests. I'm not a rich man, i can hardly afford the equipment to begin with, certainly can't just go out and buy another esc, rx and motor (the shaft on the bp is crooked) So i'm grounded until the manufacturer(s) replace the deffective part(s)


what is it with this hobby? this year i have had 3 faulty esc's, one faulty receiver. and a bunch of other problems that are unrelated to my flying abilities (wich are very good i must say, when my equipment is working) It seems i'm the only one it ever happens to. Ok not the only one, but i certainly feel i have had more bad luck with this hobby than anyone i know. You are about to see a grown man cry, or go postal... either way it ain't gonna be pretty.


I'm really glad i listened to the voice in my head that said "stay with the small electrics, if something happens in the big glow planes someone could die" Someone with my kind of luck cannot afford to take such risks as flying 7-8 lbs missiles at 100mph... Immagine, someone may buiy this rx looking to save weight and put it in a glow plane. Since it has a mile + range it should be fine right; deadly mistake.

This really really really sucks...
Old 09-11-2005, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

oh, and look;

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=466&src=hs
Old 09-12-2005, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Damn, sorry to hear that. Was the Formosa a total loss?

Oh, that Spider 3D looks new. I don't remember seeing it on there last I time I checked. Looks interesting, although personally, I'd probably build it without the spider decals. I'll have to show my son though. He loves spiders!
Old 09-12-2005, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

it is new it was launched this weekend, it's 4mm thick depron, must be hard as nails... mine being 2mm

the formosa is a total loss, the motor shaft bent also. recovered servos and electronics, took anger out on remains of airframe. gonna go harass lhs owner today...
Old 09-13-2005, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Aflipz

Sorry to hear about the Formosa!! Sounds like the ESC is not just bad but is also emitting some terrific RF noise at mid to high throttle. By any chance is the ESC right on top of the receiver or antenna? It's best to keep "switching" electronic devices as far away as possible from your radio link (a few inches at least).

Thanks for posting the pics. I'm really interested in seeing a close up of the "hinges".

Too bad each piece comes in two halves and don't seem to have accurately finished edges. I guess each type of construction material has its pro's and con's. You did well with it anyway.

Is the GWS glue just UHU?

Are there any formers inside the fuselage? A hollow fuse would seem fragile... Same goes for the wings...

Clark
Old 09-13-2005, 10:48 PM
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aflipz
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

it's still a mystery what uhu is... it's a brand! Anyways, gws glue is the tubes they give you with their foamies. i had some to spare from other gws foamies.

the esc was way in front, neat the cowl, the rx was far back of the canopy. Didn't take any chances, just got unlucky.

Don't worry about the lack of precision, frankly it's really not as bad as i initially had thought. A little microballoons and epoxy and that tiny little gap disapears. This should be an outstanding flyer. can't wait to get it back up.

Since the crash killed my bp21 i will get a park 400 920kv to spin an 11 inch prop.
Old 09-17-2005, 01:39 AM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Ok here are the finished pics.

I'm not too proud of my paint job. I was using a really cheap airbrush that broke down in the middle of the job and kind of ruined it. I ended up doinf it with a sponge brush, and made so many mistakes that layesr of paint cover the entire aircraft. It took about 3 ounces of pure fat! Mind you a single coat of this acrylic stuff brushed on, or a couple of light sprayed on coats would be just fine.

I am going to fly it like this for now. I am soon going to build some miss hangar one's (hydroplane/planes)and when i pull the radio gear to get one of those in the air i am seriously considering removing all the paint with thinner and spraying it really light in my friends shop.

here's a trick for the cowl. they say to use scotch tape. That's a drag to mess with at the field. So i took a little bit of epoxy stretched out 3:1 with microballoons to anchor some really small plastic parts i had left over from a gws foam build. these parts are bendeable plastic and have a hole in it the size of a micro rc car body pin. i bent them 90 degrees with the pierced end about 2.5mm away from the bend. Then i used the microballoons mix to stick it to the inside of the fuse, perforated part pointing up. one in front, one in back. this works great and will save me loads of time at the field. One could use a small piece of dental floss attached to the inside of the cockpit to hold each body pin, in order ot prevent loss at the field.

I haven't flown it yet.

My new setup;

new cc25 amp phoenix. has 3 amp bec now.
still four hs-50 servos
still 1320 tp 3 cell
920kv park 400 outrunner
11x4.7 prop *warning*

*I have not flown it yet. No idea if this setup works and is safe for all components and frankly i'm skeptical. That seems like a heck of a lot of prop for 10-13 amps max motor. I have a ampmeter/wattmeter on order. If weather clears up before i get it i might just be tempted to fly without testing. I did do some static pulls inside and it seemed fine, motor warm not hot (130f), esc room temperature. Pack nice and cool. Wants to hover just under 1/2 throttle, climbs slowly at 1/2 and seems to want to go tear a hole in the ceiling at wot. Response is instant. Looks good, it's just i have never seen any load tests with this setup and frankly i don't want to have problems with it.
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Did you get to fly it again yet?
Old 09-20-2005, 04:22 PM
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aflipz
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

It will never fly again.

I'm a dumb***** I painted it using acrylics and a airbrush, airbrush failed 1/2 way through, decided to paint it by hand. Made many mistakes and covered them with more paint... repeat a few times.

By the time i was done the plane weighed close to 16oz, it was beautifull though... I couldn't stand seeing it gain so much weight so i euthanized it... Sadly it's in pieces at the bottom of a garbage bag right now... (truth is i attempted to remove the paint and fly it ugly and light, but it was just too much work... I didn't think it was going to be worth it to fly it so heavy... maybe when it weighs 9-10oz one can forgive it's hinges...

I WOULD build another one, but you know it's lack of precision is annoying, and the dental floss hinges really suck, they keep getting partially unglued and make the control surfaces wobbly and imprecise not to mention crooked... I'm done with those at least for now...


I built a yak 54 by eflite. Haven't maidened it, it's ready but 40mph winds keep me grounded today...

Frankly 3dhobbyshop.com should not call it a molded depron plane because it is not. It's vaccum formed in halves then hand cut... not molded. (A ultrafly extra 300s is molded, because it comes out of a MOLD) Wich explains why it's so damned hard to build the sabre straight. The hinges really are a dealbreaker, before i even got to fly it i had a great number of problems with them

1; epoxy doesn't stick to depron's smooth surface. i had hinged the whole plane with expoy. Had to redo because it was falling appart just in normal handling of the plane.

2; i used gws glue; better but not perfect, slow curing means big chance of moving while it sets; crooked control surfaces and or loose hinges.

3; foam safe ca; this works, but it's messy and again sometimes the damned floss curls up orr moves as it cures screwing up the whole surface....

with any method it's nearly impossible to build it perfectly straight. And i don't believe they can go through any pattern flying without having at least a couple of them come loose at one point or another...


If it were anywhere near the quality and precision of a e-flite yak 54 i would have been sad to toss it in the garbage, and i'd be buying more as backup planes... But the reality is far different.

***** dat
Old 09-20-2005, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Damn, sorry to hear that. I think paint is one of those things that can really sneak up on you. When airbrushing, it feels like hardly anything is going on the plane. Even brushing it on... same thing. But then you look at how much paint you've gone through and see how much it actually weighs! Ack! I'm still building my Extra and am trying to keep it as light as possible. My paint scheme is mostly going to be white, so that's good. I'm going to try as hard as I can to keep paint to 1 to 1 1/2 ounces. If so, it will be under 20 oz AUW which should hopefully help out the low speed characterisics of it considerably (Ultrafly's spec is 22 oz.).

As for the glue, I've epoxied depron before, and had good sucess. I use 15 minute stuff. Seems to work ok. Foam safe CA on the other hand has been real tricky for me. Seems to never dry if you get the tiniest bit too much coverage.
Old 09-20-2005, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

you need to use accelerator when it goes on thick, especially in recesses. epoxy and depron ,5min 10 min 12 min 24 hours... won't make a lick of difference, it will not adhere. at least not to the sabre... it adheres fine when sticking to a rough surface but the glossy outer shell of the plane needs some sort of caustic glue to "attack" it as it cures...


I'd really like to try my hand at a extra 300s I think i'll get one. My setup apparently pushes an easy 26oz thurst. all my electronics together (4 servos, rx esc, wires, prop motor and pack) weigh under 200 grams...

How much did your empty airframe weigh?

Also i will use epoxy if i build one, but i will "stretch" it considerably with microballoons. This dramatically reduces weight, particularly where the epoxy ends up filling a larger gap or hole. The same gap can be filled with a fraction of the weight of the same volume of epoxy.
Old 09-20-2005, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

By the way, in destroying the sabre i got to see just how tough it is...


Remarkeable, i'm sure you can cartwheel it at full speed and only re-glue a couple of hinges... So it does have it's strong sides... and it is unbelieveably stiff.

If only we could find such characteristics (including weight) in a well designed/engineered and good looking model.
Old 09-20-2005, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

My Extra build thread is here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3346729/tm.htm
Last post by me has a break down of all the weights. You will probably need a 2000 mah pack with this plane, so I would find it hard to believe you can do all the electronics under 200g. But hey, if you can that will just make it fly better!
Old 09-20-2005, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Well, you need a 2000mah lipo if you are going to need the amps (ex 10c lipo 2000mah= capable 20 amps continuous)

My motor, prop and esc setup draws about 10 amps. so i could get away with a lighter battery, benefiting from lower weight, but ultimately dropping some flight time...

I'd really like to know the empty airframe weight with control surfaces, horns and linkages. adding that weight to the weight of my gear would give me a ballpark idea of how much the all up weight would be. If the total is 17oz, then what am i waiting for? take my credit card!

you know what, there is no better way to get an answer than to order one and build/weigh it myself, right? i'm gonna do that right now!

and by the way, the 200 gram electronics setup weight was determined by having all the electronic components on the scale at the same time, including all wires, connectors, prop, adaptors etc... This was with 4 hs-50 servos and the extra 300 requires 3.

my 300 will have a hs-56 servo operating the ailerons (more torque and strength, but only 1 gram more than a hs-55) i will either use hs-50's for the elevator and rudder or hs-55's. I'm gonna get really retarded with the weight shaving on this one. every non critical bit of foam will be cut off grinded out or sanded down. All wires will be cut down, motor will be directly soldered to the esc (those bullet connectors are really heavy) Since i will be using less than 15 amps i am going to use deans micro plugs (about a gram per pair) instead of the 6 gram ultras etc.. As i said before i will thin down all epoxy used with large amounts of micro balloons AND will use it as if it were pure lead; very very sparingly.

I expect to spend about 10-20 hours working on weight reduction after the airframe is gutted for weight reduction, built and fitted with servos etc. It's a painstaking process to do what i plan to do, because to achieve lowest weight you need to have the plane naturally ballanced by it's necessary components instead of adding fore or aft ballast, This means a lot of soldering, shortening or extending wires etc until everything is truly optimal. My e-flite yak 54 (recomended by tmaniaci) comes in at 14oz all up including my "heavy" 1320 pack, it's got a LOT of unnecessary, large gauge wire, connectors, servo wire etc. It also has a very heavy hs81 servo for the ailerons (my hs-50 gears stripped in testing, again) and a couple of reinforcements up front that i could have done without... (battery holder/fuselage doubler, not used with heavy packs) aswell as a few other things i can think of... If i replaced that hs-81 with a hs-56, cut the connectors out, direct soldered the esc, shortened all extra wire and ditched the landing gear it should be near 12 oz. change the pack for a 900 and i'd be looking at around 11 oz!


I never use extensions for my servos.. they are too heavy, Instead i cut the wires and solder the lenght of wire needed using minimal amounts of lead and very short, smallest shrinkwraps possible. I also have a bunch of carbon fibre rods and tubes lying around, i'll try to replace as much metal as i can with it. There is a good chance that i'll make it a belly lander too, because imho they create too much drag in the air to begin with, not to mention bumping final weight up 14 grams (plus the plastic insert and adhesive used to secure it to the fuselage)


When you look at the video on the ultrafly website, there are no decals on the extra 300s. look how nice it flies, looks very light on it's wings. No surprize that the plane has no decals or trim, and that it is being flown with the foam canopy... I agree with tmaniaci and everyone else, for a plane 22oz in weight you'll need a heavy 2100 pack and a brushless setup drawing 20 amps or more... BUT, if you can get it to weigh 17oz i'm sure you can get away with much much less power, still climb vertically as easily and need a lot less airspeed to stay airborne, thus "cool down" the landings considerably.
Old 09-20-2005, 09:05 PM
  #22  
twinturbostang
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

ORIGINAL: aflipz

Well, you need a 2000mah lipo if you are going to need the amps (ex 10c lipo 2000mah= capable 20 amps continuous)

My motor, prop and esc setup draws about 10 amps. so i could get away with a lighter battery, benefiting from lower weight, but ultimately dropping some flight time...
But as you said, that's if the plane is nice and light. If it's heavy, then you need more power, which means more battery, which means more weight, which means more power which.... I can imagine it's a viscous cycle!

I'd really like to know the empty airframe weight with control surfaces, horns and linkages. adding that weight to the weight of my gear would give me a ballpark idea of how much the all up weight would be. If the total is 17oz, then what am i waiting for? take my credit card!
Mine, with 3 Futaba S3108 servos (7.6g each) weighed 256g. So subtract out the servos and you've got 233.2 grams.

you know what, there is no better way to get an answer than to order one and build/weigh it myself, right? i'm gonna do that right now!
And at this rate, you'll probably be flying yours before me!

my 300 will have a hs-56 servo operating the ailerons (more torque and strength, but only 1 gram more than a hs-55) i will either use hs-50's for the elevator and rudder or hs-55's. I'm gonna get really retarded with the weight shaving on this one. every non critical bit of foam will be cut off grinded out or sanded down. All wires will be cut down, motor will be directly soldered to the esc (those bullet connectors are really heavy) Since i will be using less than 15 amps i am going to use deans micro plugs (about a gram per pair) instead of the 6 gram ultras etc.. As i said before i will thin down all epoxy used with large amounts of micro balloons AND will use it as if it were pure lead; very very sparingly.

I expect to spend about 10-20 hours working on weight reduction after the airframe is gutted for weight reduction, built and fitted with servos etc. It's a painstaking process to do what i plan to do, because to achieve lowest weight you need to have the plane naturally ballanced by it's necessary components instead of adding fore or aft ballast, This means a lot of soldering, shortening or extending wires etc until everything is truly optimal. My e-flite yak 54 (recomended by tmaniaci) comes in at 14oz all up including my "heavy" 1320 pack, it's got a LOT of unnecessary, large gauge wire, connectors, servo wire etc. It also has a very heavy hs81 servo for the ailerons (my hs-50 gears stripped in testing, again) and a couple of reinforcements up front that i could have done without... (battery holder/fuselage doubler, not used with heavy packs) aswell as a few other things i can think of... If i replaced that hs-81 with a hs-56, cut the connectors out, direct soldered the esc, shortened all extra wire and ditched the landing gear it should be near 12 oz. change the pack for a 900 and i'd be looking at around 11 oz!

I never use extensions for my servos.. they are too heavy, Instead i cut the wires and solder the lenght of wire needed using minimal amounts of lead and very short, smallest shrinkwraps possible. I also have a bunch of carbon fibre rods and tubes lying around, i'll try to replace as much metal as i can with it. There is a good chance that i'll make it a belly lander too, because imho they create too much drag in the air to begin with, not to mention bumping final weight up 14 grams (plus the plastic insert and adhesive used to secure it to the fuselage)
I may plan on doing some of the lightening stuff as well. If you do anything like that, please post up what you did and your results. If you want to include that in my Extra thread, that's fine with me. Oh, use the foam canopy though. It's lighter than the plastic one.


When you look at the video on the ultrafly website, there are no decals on the extra 300s. look how nice it flies, looks very light on it's wings. No surprize that the plane has no decals or trim, and that it is being flown with the foam canopy... I agree with tmaniaci and everyone else, for a plane 22oz in weight you'll need a heavy 2100 pack and a brushless setup drawing 20 amps or more... BUT, if you can get it to weigh 17oz i'm sure you can get away with much much less power, still climb vertically as easily and need a lot less airspeed to stay airborne, thus "cool down" the landings considerably.
Yeah, I guarantee they flew/video'd it with no decals for the weight reduction and improved flying characteristics. Now some have said it looks a bit twitchy. But if you look carefully, it was rather windy on that day. You can see a flag blowing in the background. I don't know... I guess we'll find out how good it flies with reduced weight.
Old 09-20-2005, 11:58 PM
  #23  
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Nice reply! Right on all points aswell. For sure if it ends up any higher than 18oz i'm putting a more powerfull motor and pack in there, further adding another 2-4oz, but hey it'll fly right?


it does look like at the very least 10-15mph winds, the flag is held out perfectly straight. Plus you see it in the flight, at the begining of the video, he goes against the wind, does a banked left turn, and as soon as he's banked against the wind you see when he banks left his plane gets pushed back to the left of the screen very quickly, the prop isn't yet pointed in the direction that he is being pushed into.

What reassures me is the rolls he does at very low altitude, and the fact that it seems to track straight and true.

I DON'T think the extra 300s should be taken as a 3d plane in any way. I am actually interested in having a tough to fly plane, they bring out the best in pilots.


My first plane was also a estarter. What is your auw? Mine was PIG heavy, i don't remember how heavy, but i powered it with a speed 400 gearbox, it had gobs of epoxy all over and used a 2100mah 3 cell lipo. I gave it to a friend who is still to this day flying it, after like 10 crashes and the epoxy that involves. Ok, the estarter has a huge wing, it basically self levels and can lift an elephant. If i ever want to build a small electric photography plane i definitely use one of those with a light brushless lipo setup, use adhesives sparingly, leaving alot of room for payload.
Old 09-21-2005, 08:53 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: 3dhobbyshop.com Sabre

Put a big enough SF prop on there, and you may have decent 3D. That's not what I'm looking to do though. I'm much more interested in aerobatics. I've got to learn how to do that stuff first though! Maybe later I'll try some 3D.

Here's page 1 of my E-starter thread (now at 3 pages): http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3310249/tm.htm AUW with a ton of repair epoxy was 18 1/4 oz before the "upgrade". Upgrade included a Dymond Tornado 400F outrunner, ESC, and 2100 mah 3S lipo. After the upgrade it was I think actually 6-10 grams heavier. Motor was lighter, and I removed some tail weight, but the ESC and battery were a little heavier. Anyways, it was crazy there for 5 minutes! Twice as much power as the 400C brushed motor had. Until the battery ejected from the plane at 200ft. Well, read the thread to see what happened after that! LOL

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