shd3920

PLEASE HELP.

I purchased the following electric setup parts (20-amp brushless ESC, 11.1v 1200mAh LIPO 3-cell battery pack, and Park 400 BL Outrunner 740Kv motor) and I was disappointed to find out that some soldering is required (NOT MY SPECIALTY) and I don't have a clue as to what gets soldered where.

Where are the 3 loose black wires soldered to? And what about the brass clips in the small baggie? What gets soldered to the ends of the black and red wires of the ESC? I am sure some of the wires get attached to the motor somehow but ********* did not include the motor with my order, and I am very disappointed with that as this was my first order with them and they are already forgetting to send me my full order (does anyone know how ********* are with making good on uncompleted orders?)

If anyone can explain in simple terms how and what and where of the soldering procedure please help. And I will need graphs or pictures to help if at all possible.

Thank you, pictures attached below.

ecmiller

Send me an email and help you figure it out. [email protected]

Trogdor the Burninator

The little brass clips are bullet connectors and are typically installed on the 3 wires coming out of the motor.

the 3 black wire pieces are just extension wires or for motors that don't come with wires already soldered on.

The park400 already will have matching bullet connectors soldered on so you can forget the extra bullet connectors and wire, the motor just plugs right into the 3 connectors on the ESC.

the black and red wire coming out of the esc are for power. you need to solder on the matching plug for your battery.

The battery you have seems to have a red JST connector on its discharge lead. This is a low-end connector typically used with low power GWS type foamies and brushed motors. It really isn't very good for carrying a lot of current (more than 7 amp or so). You can get the matching connector for your ESC but they come with a bit of wire already attached so you just join the wires. Problem is that the wire usually included is small gauge and not able to handle high currents. I had one melt once and quickly switched to Deans micro connectors for up to about 12 amp applications (about where you are with that park400).

You can get a Deans pair in a single package for a few bucks.

The other white connector on the battery is for balancing. You don't need to balance but its a good safety measure and can prolong the life of your battery but is an extra expense (worth it IMHO) I don't know what type of plug it is though (I have no eflite packs) although an eflite dealer can probably tell you what eflite recommends.

Sorry no pics but I hope this helps.. good luck.

oh, get a good weller solering iron say 20 or 30 watt. I struggled with soldering for over a year until I got past my cheapness and bought a weller... best 40 bucks ever in this hobby. makes soldering so much easier.

also CAREFUL on the battery connector soldering if you change to a different type of plug. solder one wire, shrink wrap it, then carefully solder the other wire on so you dont short it.. getting a glob of solder to short the battery while soldering on a connector would not be good!

good luck

Trogdor the Burninator

oh and be very careful with the polarity of the connectors when you solder on the esc battery connector. If you do it backwards you'll instantly fry the ESC.. red is always positive and black always negative. just match colors on the battery and esc wires.

Trogdor the Burninator

one last thing. if you do cut off that crappy jst connector from the battery to replace with micro deans or whatever.. cut one wire at a time! metal cutters through both wires shorts the battery... guess how I know?!

alienx

Trogdor really gave you a good explanation. But here is a schematic I quicklyput together for my Dad a little while back. The motor to ESC is bullet connectors, and I like Dean's Ultra connectors between the other end of the ESC and the battery.

Good luck.

shd3920

I didn't see at the bottom of the details at ********* "Continous current: 7A", I only noticed that the Capacity and Voltage matched the requirements for the ESC. So this battery is NO GOOD.

A label on the battery says the white wire is "charge"

shd3920

Here is what everything will be going into:

Electric J-3 Cub Schoolyard Scale


Wing span 52 1/2 in.
Wing area 350 sq. in.
Wt. with radio 30 oz.
Wing loading 12.3 oz./sq. ft.
Fuselage length 27 1/2 in.
3 channel micro required
Motor : Geared speed 400 (7.2 volt)
or ASTRO .010 geared brushless


Here are the requirements that I must match for the motor already purchased:

The motor bought - - - > Eflight Park 400 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 740Kv



• Slotted 12-pole outrunner design
• Prop Adapter (EFLM1923) and gold-plated connectors included
• Excellent motor for small 3D and scale park flyers 10 oz - 20 oz (280 g - 560 g)
• Motor Mount included
• Replacement for Speed 370 and Speed 400 applications
• Quiet operation\Low noise compared to gearbox systems
Type: brushless
Size: Replacement for 370/400
Bearings or Bushings: Bearings
Recommended Prop Range: 10x4.7-12x3.8
Voltage: 7.2 - 12
RPM/Volt (Kv): 740 (rpms per volt)
Resistance (Ri): .26 ohms
Idle Current (Io): .55 @ 10V (no load current)
Shaft Diameter: 1/8 in (3.17mm)
Overall Length: 1.15 in (29mm)
Weight: 56g (2.0 oz)
Overall Diameter: 1.10 in (28mm)
Diameter: 1.1 in (28mm)
Continuous Current: 7A
Maximum Burst Current: 10A
Cells: 6-10 NiCd/NiMh or 2-3 LiPo
Speed Control: 10 - 20 Amp Brushless

You will need...10-20A Brushless ESC
7.4V or 11.1V 860-1320mAh Li-Po

Here is what I bought for the motor:

Eflight 20-Amp Brushless ESC (V2)



• Programmable motor braking
• Programmable voltage cutoffs for 2-3 Cell Li-Po or 6-12 Cell Ni-Cd/Ni-MH packs
• Up to 20-Amp continuous current with proper air flow
• Dual BEC regulators for use with up to 4** servos when using 3-Cell Li-Po and 10-Cell Ni-Cd/Ni-MH packs
• Automatically sets correct motor timing
• Safe power-on mode prevents accidental starts
• Includes gold bullet connectors and extension wire leads for your motor
E-flite's brushless ESC include improved BEC capability, programmable voltage cutoff programming options such as auto-select cut-off voltage that automatically recognizes Lipo batteries or a Ni-CD/Ni-MH programable feature, programmable braking, thermal overload protection, advanced software and gold bullet connectors.
Input Voltage: 7.2V-14.4V Ni-Cd/Ni-MH; 7.4V - 11.1V Li-Po

Input Voltage: 7.2V-14.4V Ni-Cd/Ni-MH; 7.4V - 11.1V Li-Po
Eflight 11.1V 1200mAh 3-Cell Li-Po, JST



Type: Lipo
Capacity: 1200mAh
Voltage: 11.1V
Connector Type: JST(BEC)
Wire Gauge: 20 GA
Number of Cells: 3
Weight: 3 oz
Maximum Continuous Discharge: 6C
Dimensions (WxLxH): 1.35 x 2.7 x .80
Charge Protection Circuitry: Yes
Maximum Burst Discharge: 10C
Maximum Continuous Current: 7A

As stated by Trogdor the Burninator:
The battery you have seems to have a red JST connector on its discharge lead. This is a low-end connector typically used with low power GWS type foamies and brushed motors. It really isn't very good for carrying a lot of current (more than 7 amp or so).

He says that the battery I bought is for current 7AMPS or LESS.

As stated above, the motor I purchased says:
Continuous Current: 7A
Maximum Burst Current: 10A

So because the maximum burst current is 10A the battery is not good for the motor. I need to find one that can handle up to 10 Amps. What do you folks recommend for a battery? And where can I get it? And I will need the matching wires that go with ESC/battery hookup.

shd3920

My friend let me borrow his battery for a picture display below. He powers his Mini Telemaster with it. Would this 8.4V 1000mAh Ni-MH battery work good in my case?

MY MOTOR REQUIREMENTS:
Voltage: 7.2 – 12 (THE BATTERY PICTURED HAS 8.4V)
Cells: 6-10 NiCd/NiMh or 2-3 LiPo (THE BATTERY PICTURED HAS 7 CELLS)
7.4V or 11.1V 860-1320mAh (AGAIN THE PICTURED BATTERY IS 8.4V)

MY ESC REQUIREMENTS:
Input Voltage: 7.2V-14.4V Ni-Cd/Ni-MH (VOLTAGE HERE MATCHES BATTERY ALSO)

So from what I see here the battery would work. Now I gotta get one made up just like that. I will probably go to my Local Hobby Dealer and see if he can weld one for me> And the plug pictured will have to be soldered onto the ESC as well as the battery pack???Dean's Ultra connectors

So, the adapter plug soldered onto his battery here is what you call a "Dean's Ultra connector"??

shd3920

Also, the kit mentioned above has a die-cut balsa part that glues onto the fuselage side for a switch harness. But the radio I have operates the motor with a control already. So the switch prevents accidental turn-on with the transmitter??? If this is the case where can I get a switch harness for the system I have here???

Trogdor the Burninator

good thing I have insomnia tonite...

tiger, its not so much that the battery can't put out more than 7 amps, its just that awhile back that JST connector became a standard for some smaller batteries because they were already used with some older technology motors so consumers wouldn't have to solder. its just the connector that sucks... although that eflite battery is kinda 2003 technology. Current battery packs of similar size from Thunder Power and others support 15 amps or better and I think you'll find that you're lucky to get 7 or 8 amps out of that older eflite pack for a minute or two. It'll still work just not have all the power at the end as it did at the start - you'll see. Actually I'm surprised its still for sale - maybe it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for a couple years?? I dunno... I hope it was cheap!

The switch you speak of also is a remnant from days past. A few ESCs still have an arming switch but most ESCs require you to go to fully off or lowest throttle to arm the system and wont start full throttle if you accidentally leave the transmitter stick at that position. there's no real need for a switch since you should only plug in right before flight and unplug when you're done anyway.


stick with lipo if you can - nicd and nimh are so last century and relatively heavy! a 7 cell would be kinda limp compared to a decent 3cell lipo because of the much lower voltage (voltage = rpm in motors) The old equivalent was 10 cells= a 3 cell lipo and 7-8 cells = a 2 cell lipo.

and yes those are deans ultra. I use deans micro for up to about 12 amps and ultra for 35+ (my biggest motors) but it can take more. The ultra are just a little overkill in this application but the weight penalty isnt anything to be concerned about, I just like the smaller ones on smaller setups because they're easier to pull apart is all.

Trogdor the Burninator

oh and some companies used the balance plug to charge (the white plug on battery) with their own brand balancer. You can charge through the main plug on any battery, the balancing thing is a little safer and better for the battery in the long run but you need their balancer or charger in some cases and its not absolutely necessary.

also im not sure about this pack but some batteries awhile back had a special regulator thingy built in on the charge lead that wouldn't let you overcharge the pack since that could potentially cause a fire. Maybe this is what this pack has since they both seem to be jst connectors in that official pic you posted although your pack pic looked different. in any case you can charge through the discharge lead you normally plug into the esc just fine.

Finally I just noticed the projected weight of this model - 30oz. I think it'll fly ok in a scale-like way with your motor and 3cell pack, it just won't have that power all the people talk about when they first go brushless. A park 450 motor (slightly bigger) and the latest 1500-2100 mah 3 cell pack would have great power, for example. Not to get you discouraged, I just think it'll be a little underpowered.

but maybe that weight estimate was because of the heavy speed 400 and heavy nicd/nimh batteries that it might have been designed around... if so then the weight savings you'll have will bring things more in line with how it should be powered.

Keep us posted.

Trogdor the Burninator

ok, I looked closer and they do use that:

Charge Protection Circuitry: Yes

so if you change to deans you'll need to solder two on that pack, one for charge plug and one for discharge.. then the matching opposite deans on the esc and the leads coming from your charger.. wow a lot of soldering im afraid if you do change over.

shd3920

According to the kit box, the motor requirement is Geared Speed 400 (7.2 volt). I am confused now, shouldn't I go with the Manufacturers recommendations? If you really think a 450 would be better I will order one (money is not a problem, I will just save the other components for another project). Wont a more powerful motor such as the 450 weaken the structure with so much more power?

I would like some suggestions: But wherever I order it from they have to accept American Express, so please recommend the components from a online site that accepts American Express> Can someone show me a satisfactory battery pack that would go well with BOTH the 400 motor I have AND a 450 motor if I go that route. A picture of the battery and details would be appreciated. Preferrably a package deal that requires NO or at least MINOR soldering, as soldering is not my specialty.

Again I will go the 450 speed route if it is better as $$$ is not a major problem, but I always thought it was better to use the Manufacturers recommendation.

I would like to stay with the outrunner style of motors.

shd3920

[quote]ORIGINAL: tigerdude426


Electric J-3 Cub Schoolyard Scale


Wing span 52 1/2 in.
Wing area 350 sq. in.
Wt. with radio 30 oz.
Wing loading 12.3 oz./sq. ft.
Fuselage length 27 1/2 in.
3 channel micro required
Motor : Geared speed 400 (7.2 volt)
or ASTRO .010 geared brushless

The motor bought - - - > Eflight Park 400 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 740Kv



Type: brushless
Size: Replacement for 370/400
Bearings or Bushings: Bearings
Recommended Prop Range: 10x4.7-12x3.8
Voltage: 7.2 - 12
RPM/Volt (Kv): 740 (rpms per volt)
Resistance (Ri): .26 ohms
Idle Current (Io): .55 @ 10V (no load current)
Shaft Diameter: 1/8 in (3.17mm)
Overall Length: 1.15 in (29mm)
Weight: 56g (2.0 oz)
Overall Diameter: 1.10 in (28mm)
Diameter: 1.1 in (28mm)
Continuous Current: 7A
Maximum Burst Current: 10A
Cells: 6-10 NiCd/NiMh or 2-3 LiPo
Speed Control: 10 - 20 Amp Brushless

As you can see the requirements match. But I will still use a 450 if you think it would be better. I am not looking for a lot of power in the flights themselves as I am not doing anything fancy with this plane, but I do prefer to have a flight time of 10-15 minutes.

Trogdor the Burninator

hmmm, well I am now more leaning toward the plane being a bit lighter than they say when you use a lighter lipo battery and other equipment you have. If big power is not a concern then maybe you should try what you have and then get a slightly larger and more modern battery in addition in case the one you have doesn't last too long - maybe it will - depends on final weight and flying style. maybe a 1500-1800 would help flight times without adding too much weight for the motor.

Your motor is a "mild" wind also, meaning that the way its made makes it spin slower per volt of input than most. This lets you use bigger props but you get less overall power. Maybe this will affect you too... man, sorry if this is confusing, there's a lot to it tho! but if you go 450 which should be plenty but not outrageous, that battery you have may be stressed. I guess depends on what you want to exchange.

If you hate soldering, tanicpacks.com will solder on the discharge and balnce plugs of your choice. I solder a lot for this hobby but got lazy recently and some old tanic pack I bought years ago still held up better than all the others so I went with them for a few new packs. Very nice work and worth a few bucks for them to do everything.

Trogdor the Burninator

I thought back a bit a remembered a speed 400 pusher jet I had... different type of plane but same weight and geared the same as they recommend on your plane. with an 8 cell nicd pack (heavy) it would fly yes but you had to be at 3/4 throttle plus to be barely above stall speed. full throttle couldnt be used continuously even when I added a heatsink to the motor.. just got too hot. That weight is just asking a lot of a speed 400. Climb angle was like 15 degrees full throttle. in my mind a lumbering turd! In your case the park400 is more efficient but that mild wind thing might make the power marginal. If you're used to that though it could be fine. I have a couple smaller glider types with a similar wing that I used speed 300 motors on and while performance was kinda weak it flew fine on the wing... maybe I'm spoiled by outrageous 3d planes I fly now I dunno.. I hope all this helps.

shd3920

How's this for a 450 motor, not too much for the J3 electric cub I purchased, pictured in an earlier post above?

PARK 450 BL OUTRUNNER MTR,890KV


Extremely quiet and lightweight – just 2.5 ounces
High torque alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapter, and mounting hardware
Quiet, efficient operation
External radial rotor design: 4mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor installation
Slotted 12-pole outrunner design
Ideal for park flyers and scale park flyers 20-to-30 ounces
Uses 2S – 3S 1200-2100mAh Li-Po battery packs

Will need:
20A Brushless ESC
9x6 - 11x3.8 Prop
2S - 3S 1200-2100mAh Li-Po Battery

Type: Brushless Outrunner
Size: Replacement for 370 or 400
Bearings or Bushings: Ball Bearings
Recommended Prop Range: 9x6 to 11x3.8 Slow Flyer or 10x5 to 12x6 Electric
Voltage: 7.2 - 12
RPM/Volt (Kv): 890
Resistance (Ri): .20 ohms
Idle Current (Io): .70A @ 8V
Shaft Diameter: .16 in (4mm)
Overall Length: 1.30 in (33mm)
Weight: 72g (2.5 oz)
Overall Diameter: 1.10 in (28mm)
Diameter: 1.1 in (28mm)
Length: 1.3 in (33mm)
Continuous Current: 14A
Maximum Burst Current: 18A for 15 seconds
Cells: 2-3 Li-Po or 6-10 Ni-Cd/Ni-MH
Speed Control: 20A Brushless ESC


ALREADY HAVE THIS:

20-Amp Brushless ESC (V2)

Programmable motor braking
Programmable voltage cutoffs
Up to 20-amp continuous current with proper air flow.

Dual BEC regulators for use with up to 4** servos when using 3-Cell Li-Po and 10-Cell Ni-Cd/Ni-MH packs
Automatically sets correct motor timing
Safe power-on mode prevents accidental starts
Includes gold bullet connectors and extension wire leads for your motor
Brake: Yes, programmable
Continuous Maximum Current: 20A
Input Voltage: 7.2V-14.4V Ni-Cd/Ni-MH; 7.4V - 11.1V Li-Po
Dimensions (WxLxH): 36mm (1.4 in) x 24mm (.95 in) x 9mm (.37 in)
BEC Voltage: Dual BEC circuits
Auto Cutoff: Programmable

POSSIBLE BATTERY FOR THE 450 MOTOR SHOWN ABOVE, THE 450 MOTOR CALLS FOR A 2S – 3S 1200-2100mAh Li-Po battery pack:

20C 1250mAh 11.1V 3-Cell Li-Po Battery


20c 3S 1250mah
Charge Rate: 1.25A (1C)
Discharge Rate: 25A
Max Volts Per Cell: 4.2V
Max Pack Voltage: 12.6V
Min Discharge Volts: 9.0V
Length: 70mm/2.76in
Width: 35mm/1.38in
Thickness: 27mm/1.05in
Weight: 118g/4.2oz

This appears to be the best choice at RC-Hobbies that appears to stay among the guide-lines for the 450 motor shown.
The discharge is 25A and the motor’s maximum is 18A (Is that enough difference to matter?)
It seems to be the best pack in the motor’s range of 1200 – 2100mAh range.
But what worries me is the batterie’s MAX pack voltage is 12.6, and the motor’s is 7.2-12 volt range which makes the battery .6 higher than recommended for the motor. Is that a significant amount?
Is this a good battery pack choice for the 450 motor shown?
Would it go well with the kit, ESC, and 450 motor?

And it is my understanding that the soldering of the new plugs would have to be done to both the battery and the ESC!!!

shd3920

So to make it short (if it's not already too late ) based on the info in post 18 above, will these components go well together?

Electric J-3 Cub Schoolyard Scale


PARK 450 BL OUTRUNNER MTR,890KV


20-Amp Brushless ESC (V2)


20C 1250mAh 11.1V 3-Cell Li-Po Battery

shd3920

Now that the soldering question has been answered, how bout some answers about the right motor, ESC and battery pack for the Electric J-3 cub pictured. It was recommended to me to put a 450 in it instead of the 400 I was going to. So I found the one above at RC-Hobbies, and I would really like some opinions.

I will read and consider all responses.

Thank you

Trogdor the Burninator

well tiger, just you and me!

I think the speed 400 recomendation is just old school thinking. really, 30 oz is a lot for a speed 400 class brushed motor as they describe. The 450 brushless outrunner is right in the recommended range of weight with your plane.

thats the 450 I had in mind... I think only eflite names one of their motors 450.. I think all is good except that the battery (while claiming to pump out a lot) could really be pushed... these lipo makers are usually really genereous with their ratings... something in the 1500-1800 ish range would probably be better and still not be very heavy although that big wing would handle a 6 ounce 2100 no problem especially since the nickel packs used with speed 400s over the years are even heavier.

looking at the specs.. thats a pretty heavy 1200 - it probably could pump out the juice they claim but a thunder power prolite 3s 2100 is only 5 ounces and can put out 35+ amps (for future projects) and fly nearly twice as long... its a little overkill as far as amp output capability but its nice for duration. a 1320 thunder power prolite is an ounce lighter than the pack you mention and is good for both motors you have.

If you want completely soldered packs, try tanicpacks.com.. I just got a couple packs made with connectors all done to my specs.. very nice work.

Trogdor the Burninator

hope battery stuff wasnt too contradictory.. I just know tp and tanic packs a little better and never have seen that pack... some manufacturers inflate their ratings more than others so I just meant to be wary - the max capability - if used a lot - will really shorten a battery's lifespan.

Trogdor the Burninator

and the motor specs saying 12v instead of 12.6 is just an oversight... they meant 3 cell lipo packs.

shd3920

THIS THE ONE YOU TALKING ABOUT FROM HORIZON HOBBY? DOES HORIZON ACCEPT AMERICAN EXPRESS? $69.99 IS KINDA STEEP FOR AN AIRPLANE BATTERY ISN'T IT, AND IF I WANT ONE AS A SPARE FOR FLYING DOUBLE THAT .

2100mAh 3-Cell 11.1V LIPO,16GA


Key Features
4-pin balancer connector
16G wire
15C (31.5A) continuous

Type: Lithium Polymer
Capacity: 2100 mAh
Voltage: 11.1V nominal
Connector Type: N/A
Wire Gauge: 16
Number of Cells: 3
Weight: 5.0 oz
Configuration: 3S
Dimensions (WxLxH): 1.35 x 3.9 x 1.0
Maximum Continuous Discharge : 15C
Maximum Burst Discharge : 20C
Maximum Continuous Current : 31.5A

Needed to Complete
LiPo Charger
Battery connector
$69.95

1) The battery is 16G wire, doesn’t my motor and ESC posted here need 20G?
2) Isn’t the 31.5A too much for the motor listed here, which only has a MAX of 18A?
3) Needed to complete: Battery connector; What battery connector will I need for my ESC?
4) Don't they have an equivalent battery to this one at RC-hobbies cheaper?
5) I probably asked this already above but does Horizon Hobby take American Express?

P.S: It does appear that it is just you and me here I thank you for all your help, batteries are so confusing to me.

shd3920

THIS ONE FROM RC-HOBBIES IS CONSIDERABLY CHEAPER THAN THE ONE ABOVE - $49.95
WON'T THIS ONE BE AS GOOD? AND ITS CONSIDERABLY LIGHTER ALSO, ONLY 3.4OZ

2100mAh 2-Cell 7.4V LIPO,16GA

Type: Lithium Polymer
Capacity: 2100 mAh
Voltage: 7.4V nominal
Connector Type: N/A
Wire Gauge: 16
Number of Cells: 2
Weight: 3.4 oz
Configuration: 2S
Dimensions (WxLxH): 1.35 x 3.9 x .75
Maximum Continuous Discharge : 15C
Maximum Burst Discharge : 20C
Maximum Continuous Current : 31.5A
$49.95

And I am still wary about the 16G when I thought I needed a 20G for the ESC. And the 31.5A when the 450 motor maximum is 18A, that is too much isn't it?

The 450 motor calls for either a 2S or 3S battery so this one still is compatable, and $20 cheaper which is always a plus