Flyer88

Is there a specific reason why you cannot find the CG for this plane posted on the companys website or in the manual ????

Is it top secret[&:]

Very odd............................

danamania

I don't think they know what it is, or rather should be!  Just like the recommended incidence setting in the manual is way off.  Did the addendum to the instructions address either setting, were these critical numbers also updated? All of their business is in the 3D/IMAC aerobat markets, I believe.

pvogel

I think it's because, in general, the pattern community is a bunch of cantankerous fogies (myself included) who prefer to figure it out for themselves with some well-known starting points (+ 0.5 degrees wing, 0.0 degrees stab incidence, CoG at 25% MAC)

Peter+

danamania

Say Peter, exactly what is the Vanquish's CG at 25% MAC? I honestly don't know.

Flyer88

I know... but they should at least list it in the manual.

They designed an entry level pattern plane and don't expect newbies to buy the plane.....

cmoulder

What's a manual?

Seriously, having just assembled my 4th 2-meter pattern model I have yet to see a manual. Search RCU (this thread will yield a few hits) and google and you will find some guidance.

Part of the reason there is no specific information is because CG and incidence are highly subjective numbers based upon flying style and trimming philosophy. Some very good pilots will fly it with CG ranging from 25% to 33% of MAC and with incidence ranging from 0.4deg to 1.0deg. Some do not hesitate to use computer mixes, others abhor them.

Consult your local experts. You have some very high caliber pattern fliers who I am sure will be glad to assist!

cygnet

My Feedback: (33)

Here Here

Flyer88

Don't know who they are ???

Flyer88

Ive calculated a starting point of 7.2 inches.

But I'm a little confused ???? Is this not a build thread on a Freakin Extreme Flight 2m Vanquish.

Or is it just a thread to mock people that are asking some genuine questions and want an honest answer about the aircraft that the thread was intended for .

Or was it started as a bunch of BS propaganda to expose an new over rated airplane for a over rated company.

On Chads Caelestia thread he recommends starting on the wing tube, thats an honest answer. At least he's representing his plane.......where is EF.

I'm sick of the freakin arrogance [:@]

Si-F3a

Flyer 88,

You are right this is supposed to be a build thread but it seems
To have gone off topic a bit of late IMO.

I recently finished my 2m vanquish and was looking for some guidance
(at the very least) from the manual but couldn't find anything. On scouring
Through this thread I believe Arch has said he has the cg at the front of the
Wingtube. On my 2 test flight to date I have flown the plane with COG @
The center of the wing tube, only as I couldn't get my flight packs any
Further forward in the fuse. I will try and move the cog to where arch suggested
When I get chance and test further.

klhoard

My Feedback: (10)

.
Nobody is being arrogant with you. At the last contest I attended there were about 6-7 Vanquii. I can gaurantee that each one had a very different CG location and each owner would vigorously defend his reasoning for placing it exactly where it was.Over the life of your Vanquish, you are going to try several CG locations based on conversations with other Vanquish owners who KNOWtheir CG is THE correct location. And eventually you are going to convince someone else to put their CG exactly where yours is because you KNOWthat that is correct.
.
Its how we are. . . you WILL be assimilated . . .
.
But until then I would start with the CG directly over the wing tube.
.

cmoulder

There is no manual for the Caelestia.

If you read the thread carefully, you will see that Chad provided that information after I ASKED HIM.

Never occurred to me to have a hissy fit over it. Hmm... maybe I ought to try it some time.

WHY on EARTH didn't ZN LINE provide a STINKIN manual???[:@][:@]

Nah, not cool.

rix

I have my cg set at 190 which puts my packs about 1inch or so in front of the wing tube. In my experience, the Vanquish is not real cg sensitive as I have moved my packs around without much trim change. I just kept moving my packs back until pitch coupling went away on knife edge. 190 is where I ended up with it. I am using a Himax 210 and a heavy APC prop so take that into consideration with your setups. I made adjustments to my incidence until my up trim went away and to set the aileron trim. I suspect I am at .05 or better, stabs are at zero. I installed gator adjusters on the front which made incidence adjustments much easier, It was well worth the time to install them. The plane fly's well in advanced for me with this setup. I am at about 200 or so flights with it this way. I do have a slight pull to the right on exit when pushing to inverted for the full roll outside loop and I have not found a satisfactory fix for it yet. Other than that, no other bad tendency anywhere else flying the Advanced schedule.

Rick

Flyer88

Wow !!!

That's the most info Ive heard since Ive been on this stinkin website. Seems like most looky-lous' are just arm chair critics

And no Im not having a fit ....I'm just confused about the uncooperative nature of the people that are on the site.

I too dont use a manual to build...I do it my way , based on my build experience. But that doesnt mean I cant ask a valid question like you did with your Caelestia.

And yes I will eventually alter my CG to my liking, not anyone elses. . But that being said ..I would like to know what others are flying ....different or not.

I didn't know RC could be so clique-y

Flyer88

Thank you Rick

danamania

Very helpful post, thanks Rick. There were at least 2 other Vanquishes at Pocono pattern last weekend with batteries more forward than mine; and I have read about many others out there on these threads with packs more forward than mine. That said, last night I put mine back up on the balance to re-check CG (still at 186 after a minor repair undid some recent weight reductions LOL) AND have a cold hard look at the elevators as trimmed: they were nearly neutral, just a hair of up, less than 1mm. Was thinking maybe I should move the packs back again towards the 181 end of my range but now after reading your post above, I am not going to make any changes unless we observe some new flight charateristic that needs to be addressed. Your reported flight experience increases my confidence that the config is in fact, very close. Also, I have been thinking that this design has a very wide CG range which makes it forgiving to those of us who are relative new to pattern (this is my second season and first 2m ship) and your observation above supports that thought.

The idea of batch variation, at minimum from last year's fin/rudder design to this year's new config, grows stronger in my mind. After all, it is balsa and ply and those materials must be very difficult to keep constant at this price point. Could some of this "where should my batteries be" back and forth on the threads be due to variations in batches or even individual examples? Anyway, the choice of wing incidence is my next question with a post above about pushing towards 0.8 - 1deg. That gave me pause! Again, I think I will leave it at the 0.5-0.6 for now based on your post (without Gators, tweaking CG is dicey as stock) which is a good thing since my H9 incidence meter just died! I will soon have to replace it, any recommendations? Thx!

danamania

LOL, I am being "assimilated" (to the pattern community). Now, Take me to your leader!Just kidding, no alien abduction afoot and no fears about assimilation. Another great post, thanks for the perspective Keith, keeping it real. If my hypothesis about batch or individual example variation (due to materials) is viable, then we will likely drive ourselves crazy as Vanquish owners!

TampaRCGuy

My Feedback: (282)

I spoke with EF via email and they addressed some questions. The new rudder/fin configuration according to EF did not change the weight of the aircraft. Their comment back about CG is that the batteries are typically more forward than mine are currently.

CG and wing incidence will vary on how you like the feel. On another thread about the Vanquish, the CG range was listed between 180-186mm. 186mm is about on the wing tube. In the trimming process, you have to have the CG right or close.

danamania

Thanks for the calculation, this is good to know. Approximately 183mm, correct? This concurs with my posted range of 181-186mm. We Vanquish owners are all experts LOL, welcome to the ranks! I looking forward to your flight reports and choice of CG, when you get to all that. Thanks in advance for sharing back when you are ready. This ARF gives all of us a lot to work with LOL!

danamania

Weight of the ARF did not change, ok, but what is their spec for weight? Did they say? And how on earth did they manage to keep that consistant given a wood airplane at this terrific price point? Not complaining, but no way to achieve that without going to great effort in materials selection which would raise costs and price to the consumer (not worth it to either of us really).

Nobody I've met or read about liked the EF suggested starting incidence of +0.3 deg! It should have been amended in the addendum to 0.5 or greater. Even Arch came back to us to say he went 0.5-0.6 and now we have a report that AJ is taking it 0.8-1 deg! My point is that it would cost them very little to nothing to make this simple improvement in information available to new buyers. I'm a fan, but EF could be doing a better job of supporting their brand. This ARF, along with the Osiris (and 2m Osiris if it ever comes our way) are opening new doors for RC sport flyers to walk into the pattern community, we would have benefited from a better floor plan as this is one grand ole' House! LOL What did EF say about wing incidence settings? Good post.

TampaRCGuy

My Feedback: (282)

How a pattern plane flies is subjective to the flyer. What I think is good setup, you may not like. CG will most definately effect how wing incidence can be set. trimming is a long process. As far as EF goes, I simply called them and the followed up with an email. Why hasn't other people on the forum done this? I do not rely on the information from the forums as I have no idea who the person is nor their level of expertise. Some people I do know and take their advice. So instead of asking questions here and not knowing if the information is right, how about sending an email or make a phone call to EF.

www.extremeflightrc.com
[email protected]
Phone: 770-887-1794

danamania

Why? Because the pattern community available to us here on the threads knows far more about setting up the plane than EF does, as evidenced by the poor information provided in the manual and addendum. The subjectivity piece is overrated, a plane not set up well will fly poorly and those who are new (or newish like myself) will struggle and waste time trimming when we could have been out there flying and practicing precision aerobatics. Given good starting points, a lot of time would have been saved, leaving more time for practice and establishing an informed preference. Finally, a lot of what we are kicking around on this thread comes from the EF team pilots who posted their build and initial findings last year, I believe, correct? Oh, and you are a dealer, correct? Any chance you get a response faster than the online consumer to your e-mail or phone calls? Just asking. Please keep in mind that I am an EF fanboy and am offering constructive criticism valuable to brand equity, if perchance they are tuned in to this new customer segment. We are here discussing their product. The team pilots have moved on to newer designs for their pattern competition. Cheers!

TampaRCGuy

My Feedback: (282)

Show me any competition pattern plane that has a detailed manual. So yes help is needed. That is why you call the manufacturer. If they do not know, they will put you ion touch with some like Arch Stafford to get assistance from. Anyway, like someone said, this thread has become a waste of time.

danamania

A bit condescending to say that this thread is a waste of time as a lot of good experience was shared within the last 24 hours, would'nt you agree Mr. RC Accessory dealer? You may feel that your time has been wasted, but not mine. I have gained valuable information from you and others since last night. Arch is available to us here on the threads and has already shared what he learned about the Vanquish, he has since gone back to his Winds and now moved on to the Nuance. Not sure what the other team pilot(s) are flying nowdays. Thank you for sharing your opinions, but I heartily disagree about how we are spending our time here sharing information and viewpoints. If you feel your time is not well spent, why not check out? I certainly won't!

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Dana. I can appreciate and understand your frustration. Most of the "older" (meaning those who have been flying pattern for a number of years) pattern flyers found themselves in similiar frustrating situations at one time or another early on in their careers. There is alot to learn and the learning curve can be steep and overwhelming at times but, with patience, I'm very sure based on your responses, you will overcome these obstacles and excel in the future. What worked for me many years ago, was to find 1 or 2 trusted pattern flyers that knew what they were talking about, and follow their suggestions and guidance ONLY. This is not to say others don't have the answers. Any pattern flyer, in the advanced classes, will tell you that it can typically take 150-250 flights to get any pattern plane set-up and "dialed In" to suit YOUR individual taste. There is not a single pattern flyer out here that would not help you and would be even more involved if they were flying beside you at the field. I realize you are fairly new but at this point what is important is for you to take small steps and sort out what applies to your situation and more importantly keep notes because all that you are learning now will serve you well in your pattern future. You have got what it takes and I encourage you to keep an open mind and stay involved. Regards, Everette