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  1. #1101

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    ORIGINAL: danamania

    Well now you have! *Yeah, I learn something new everyday hanging around pattern pilots LOL! Why not try it on your Vanquish and see if landing accuracy improves? The effect is very different from that achieved with the prop at idle (or the effect with ESC braking), and is not so much about slowing the airplane down as dumping a little bit of excess lift. For downlines, I have a 3% bottom throttle to down elevator mix (which is reversed when the air brakes are deployed as I don't want this mix for landings).

    P.S. EDF pilots use a little bit of spoileron mix (usually with flaps) to add washout and decrease tip stall risk at high AOA during approach to landing.


    I watch guys at our field land on a dime without a mix or modes. Thats why Im confused.

    The less modes....the less mixes....the less problems. JMTC

    Curious...whats your flight surfaces set at ??

    On my Helios I added slight down aileron (about 1- 2 degrees because it's fixed incidence) to reduce pulling to the canopy and it slowed my plane down ...big time. It gave it a very nice feeling in flight too.
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  2. #1102

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    ORIGINAL: Flyer88

    Curious...whats your flight surfaces set at ??

    On my Helios I added slight down aileron (about 1- 2 degrees it's fixed incidence) to reduce pulling to the canopy and it slowed my plane down ...big time. It gave it a very nice feeling in flight too.
    Close to the EF manual recommendations actually:
    Aileron 12 / 15 / 25 deg (triple AIL & ELErates set-up, but I fly it mostly on low rates for the Sportsman schedule)
    Elevator 10-12 / 20 deg
    Rudder 25 deg

    KE mixing courtesy of some Masters level pilots around here:
    Rud - up Ele 5% (correct pulling to the gear)
    Rud-Ail 4% / 2%
    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  3. #1103

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    What about wing incidence ??

    I'm curious for my own reasons. Not too be snoopy .

    Thx
    Flyer
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  4. #1104

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: Flyer88

    What about wing incidence ??

    I'm curious for my own reasons. Not too be snoopy .

    Thx
    Flyer
    Hi Flyer, just had the picture of Snoopy flying his dog house against the cursed Red Baron flash through my mind LOL!

    Anyway, I think I posted that a few times before, +0.5-6 deg wing incidence, stabs are zero. The stock adjusters are so fussy its not worth it to me to go a tweakin. Could easily end up worse than I have now. There is no elevator trim needed and the ailerons are fairly neutral as well. How did yours turn out on these parameters? Dana

    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  5. #1105

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    The same . +.6 and 0 on the stab.

    The stab might change later.....after some more flights

    Oh yes by the way I love the Red BAron and Snoopy !
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  6. #1106

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Incidence vs CG: I've read recently that guys are going 0.6-0.8 or even 1 deg on incidence. They are probably opting for a most forward CG.  The CG range I've flown mine (last year's batch with the smaller rudder) is 181-186mm.  Right now, its at 186 which is probably as aft in the CG range as anyone I've read is going.  I suppose I could move the CG forward a bit, but then would probably want more wing incidence and what I don't want is to open up those adjusters. Its all about finding the right compromise for my flying style. I would rather spend time practicing the Sportsman schedule and entering contests this season than spending another season trimming a wooden ARF. I fly year round, winters too, and the climate changes will also have subtle effects on trimming a wood plane, IMO. Right now, at my skill level, my time is better spent flying than trimming. That said, half a dozen Masters level pilots have flown my Vanquish and have wisely counseled me to just fly it and not worry about all the trimming that could still be attempted.  Now, I'm off to the airfield for a few flights before dark!
    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  7. #1107

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    One thing to keep in mind about wing incidence, the wing flies level. If you have too little wing incidence, the fue will fly tail down. Too much wing incidence, the fuse will fly tail high. The first 3 flights were at .4 pos incidence on the wing and the tail was down. Now that the wing incidence is at .7, the fuse flies straight. When I first noticed this on the first flight which I was also tail heavy. 2nd and 3rd flight I had moved the batteries forward and the CG was much better, but the tail still flew down. For the third flight, I had 3 other pilots watch the plane to see if they saw the samething I did and they did. IMHO, .6 or .7 pos wing incidence is about right. Now I will work on moving the batteries forward to see if the KE pitching is relieved. It should be according the trimming chart. If not, then I will increase the wing incedence to .8, but I hope I do not have to. Another option would be to increase the incedence of the stab a bit too.

  8. #1108

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Didnt know that they changed the rudder .

    What else did they do ..........................
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  9. #1109

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Just got the new spinner today from Truturn.

    FAI Turbo type, painted with Krylon paint and baked at 170 for about 2 hours.

    The color match is very close, but not perfect.


    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  10. #1110

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    looks nice, couple questions, how much weight did it add and is it 170 farenheit or celcius
    Kenobi - I think we lost something.
    Skywalker - Not to worry, we are still flying half a ship.

  11. #1111

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    I didn't weigh it but the spinner feel lighter than my plastic spinner for sure.

    When it looks that good, who cares how much it weighs

    170F the lowest the stove would go.
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  12. #1112
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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Flyer88,

    What was the TT prop adapter number? Did the spinner back plate come with a 10mm hole? I plan to use one on a Himax 6330-210 motor.

    Thanks - swk550

  13. #1113

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    The spinner back plate was 10mm I think, but the adapter came with a 8mm spacer luckily
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  14. #1114

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Truturn part # TT-0814-4
    8x1.0mm double jam nut kit
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  15. #1115
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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    I installed the gator wing adjusters on the back side. I used 1/64" indreasing drill bits until I drilled out the wing CF locator pins. Then I used 1/4" wood dowl to replace the CF pins. I stepped down the end of the wood dowl 1/8" until the Gator wing adjuster socket fit snuggly on the wood dowl. Need to make sure the socket is straight with the wood dowl. Then mix up some 30 mon epoxy and milled fiber glass and insert the dowl with the end of the adjuster socket flush with the wing root cap. I was able to elongate he Gator mounting holes to match the EF adjuster hold down screw locations. Then I set the canopy at 0-0 deg, the rear stabs at 0-0 deg and the wings at 0.6 deg positive. I left the EF front adjusters stock, although I had to open up the slots to match the screw thread locations.
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  16. #1116

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Very nice job !!!
    Looks like a job for a rainy day.
    Thanks for sharing
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  17. #1117

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Ran some numbers with the Silver Bullet and a Falcon 21x14 v2
    75 amps @ 6300 rpm and about 2850 watts.
    Run times are very good with batteries sitting about 30- 35 percent remaining
    For a 7.5 min flight in windy conditions.
    Very nice combo. Flight is slow and very steady.
    Official weight is 10.87 lbs / 4390.5 grams .
    Curious to know what a 22x12 would perform like ?
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  18. #1118

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: RC Accessory

    One thing to keep in mind about wing incidence, the wing flies level. If you have too little wing incidence, the fue will fly tail down. Too much wing incidence, the fuse will fly tail high. The first 3 flights were at .4 pos incidence on the wing and the tail was down. Now that the wing incidence is at .7, the fuse flies straight. When I first noticed this on the first flight which I was also tail heavy. 2nd and 3rd flight I had moved the batteries forward and the CG was much better, but the tail still flew down. For the third flight, I had 3 other pilots watch the plane to see if they saw the samething I did and they did. IMHO, .6 or .7 pos wing incidence is about right. Now I will work on moving the batteries forward to see if the KE pitching is relieved. It should be according the trimming chart. If not, then I will increase the wing incedence to .8, but I hope I do not have to. Another option would be to increase the incedence of the stab a bit too.
    Interesting. Say, what was your CG at this incidence if you measured it? Thx.

    Another thing to keep in mind about trimming chart(s), there are steps that address thrust angle that we tend to skip with ARFs. Thoughts?

    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  19. #1119

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: Flyer88

    Ran some numbers with the Silver Bullet and a Falcon 21x14 v2
    75 amps @ 6300 rpm and about 2850 watts.
    Run times are very good with batteries sitting about 30- 35 percent remaining
    For a 7.5 min flight in windy conditions.
    Very nice combo. Flight is slow and very steady.
    Official weight is 10.87 lbs / 4390.5 grams .
    Curious to know what a 22x12 would perform like ?
    Looks like some solid numbers to me, nice report! I've only flown mine with the 20.5x14.5. What would one be looking for with the other prop?

    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA

  20. #1120

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: danamania


    ORIGINAL: RC Accessory

    One thing to keep in mind about wing incidence, the wing flies level. If you have too little wing incidence, the fue will fly tail down. Too much wing incidence, the fuse will fly tail high. The first 3 flights were at .4 pos incidence on the wing and the tail was down. Now that the wing incidence is at .7, the fuse flies straight. When I first noticed this on the first flight which I was also tail heavy. 2nd and 3rd flight I had moved the batteries forward and the CG was much better, but the tail still flew down. For the third flight, I had 3 other pilots watch the plane to see if they saw the samething I did and they did. IMHO, .6 or .7 pos wing incidence is about right. Now I will work on moving the batteries forward to see if the KE pitching is relieved. It should be according the trimming chart. If not, then I will increase the wing incedence to .8, but Ihope I do not have to. Another option would be to increase the incedence of the stab a bit too.
    D
    Interesting. Say, what was your CG at this incidence if you measured it? Thx.

    Another thing to keep in mind about trimming chart(s), there are steps that address thrust angle that we tend to skip with ARFs. Thoughts?



    I do not actually know, I did not check it. On the 3rd flight of the day I moved the batteries back some and felt the plane was tail heavy. More work to do. I am not worried about the thrust line yet.

  21. #1121

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Looks like some solid numbers to me, nice report! I've only flown mine with the 20.5x14.5. What would one be looking for with the other prop?


    From my experience, a little more power and a lower gear for the up lines. I do believe that you can keep the throttle reduced a little more with a bigger prop and the good runtime numbers prove it. Seems like most guys at my altitude are running 22x12 at about 3300 watts 90 amps about 6200 rpm and loving the power.

    Also........... This plane lands like a butterfly....I hit the center line all but once.


    How many of you guys fly with your throttle trimmed up to an idle ?? Curious
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  22. #1122

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    Dana,

    Would you please expand on the throttle curve and include throttle end points mentioned much earlier in this thread. Or point me to a site that explains its use for pattern flying.

    My apologies for asking this in a build thread but its been on my mind for months and this is the only place I've seen it mentioned.



    Thanks,

    Je r

  23. #1123

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread



    My experience has been that getting thrust line sorted out (both vertical and horizontal) is one of the essential early adjustments.  I check for vertical alighment by trimming the a/c at half throttle and then going to full throttle.  If the aircraft climbs, it needs more down thrust and vice versa.  For horizontal thrust lines, I pull to the vertical pointing into wind and check to see if the aircraft climbs straigt or if it deviates left or right.  If it goes left, I add right thrust and vice versa until it goes straigt up.  My Vanquish needed downthrust (3 washers worth) and left thrust (1 washer's worth).  Once I have the thrust lines sorted I go on with the other adjustments e.g. CG, incidence etc.  What do others do?


  24. #1124
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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    What is the height of the landing gear (from axle to gear 'tongue')? Thank you

    Oh, also, how are people liking the 'new' tail wheel assembly? Does it seem robust and likely to last?
    Joe Marri
    Enjoying all things aviation.

  25. #1125

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    RE: Extreme Flight Vanquish 2m Build Thread

    ORIGINAL: JerMilosek

    Dana,

    Would you please expand on the throttle curve and include throttle end points mentioned much earlier in this thread. Or point me to a site that explains its use for pattern flying.

    My apologies for asking this in a build thread but its been on my mind for months and this is the only place I've seen it mentioned.



    Thanks,

    Je r
    Jer, a throttle curve is a way to get to more power with less throw of the throttle stick. It's a matter of personal preference and setting it up depends a bit on what kind of radio you have.

    With Castles, I have fixed endpoints set on the ESC and the radio' throttle channe endpoints (ATV) are chosen following the Castle instructions. This does not change with a throttle curve.

    A quick way to get a throttle curve on Futaba is to use an Exp1 curve in D/R where advancing the throttle stick produces more power output at the motor than the default linear curve does. Then one can get an idea of how much curve is desired. A custom curve can be defined with a point curve once one has an idea of the kind of throttle response fits the flying style. There does seem to be a trade-off between getting at more power with less stick movement, and the perception of just how much power is commanded, or resolution of stick movement to ESC.

    Others may be able to explain it better, I find it to be a very subjective topic really. Hope this helps.

    Good Flying! Dana
    4449NSRC AMA


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