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Nuance

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Old 07-10-2012, 05:59 AM
  #326
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I fly on a grass field that is very bumpy. It is still being developed so hopefully it will be better later in the year. Because of this I have changed the undercarriage to an Oxai set which is not raked back as far and is taller. I am running a Brenner Sharp contra drive so my props are 22 ins. I also don't use spats ever as the risk of damage on landing is too great.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:00 AM
  #327
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Moving a gear mounting block forward 2-3" is the key to the nose overs. OR, eliminating the rear rake of the legs. If these are wood planes, then the block move should be straight forward when building the crate....

I've seen many different current models with gear too far aft. I don't get why this appears to be a big deal for the manufacturers to address. The fix is simple

BTW - I always use pants on the gear. I glue them onto the struts and secure the pants' outside rim with the axle. This pant solution was something I came up with about a dozen years ago to address pants twisting and catching on the ground/grass. It works far better than any screwy screws or nutty bolts. Try it! I am giving the innovation away, but will accept any royalties you wish to send me. (BG)
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:36 AM
  #328
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There composite fuses Matt. Thus they need to reduce the rake.
Is your wheel pants mounting system the same as Wayne's? Mike
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:03 AM
  #329
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: danamania

Right now, I have the MK 70mm SuperLights from F3AU. The lightest foam DuBro wheels also work. Just like any model this size on thick grass, 2.75-3'' wheels rule. To save weight and improve ground handling, I leave off the wheel pants on all my models. Just don't see the need for them and they eventually break flying off of grass. True the supplied wheels and pants will probably work just fine off of hard surfaces, hard pack, or putting greens; I hear that the manufacturers fly off of roads or streets over there so they don't get what accessories Americans typically need.
I would disagree that wheelpants break on grass, I have always used wheel pants, with 2.5" and sometimes 2.25" wheels on rough grass fields and have never had one come off. Its all in the installation, if you capture the end of the axle in a donut glued into the pant and secure the pant to the gear leg you can drive through a gopher hole with it and it wont come off.
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:30 AM
  #330
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Chad that's the same thing that the Waybe's wheelpants method uses.
My Integral has 2500 flights on it with the original wheelpants. They look like new. That's with flying off of rough grass too. Mike
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:32 AM
  #331
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mups53

Is your wheel pants mounting system the same as Wayne's? Mike
Wayne Galiger? It should be very similar. If I recall, he was one of the early ones asking what I did.

Eventually I used the technique in the custom gear sets I was building for people circa 2003? It's been quite a while....

Send royalties to me via RCU.....
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:11 AM
  #332
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Bob Pastorelli had that on his website a longtime ago. He called it "Wayne's wheelpants". I guess he stole it from you. I think the website was RCrats or something like that. He was incredible with giving building and flying tips. I wish he still had it. He's a guy I would have liked to have met in the sport.
Matt what size bolts do you use for the axles? I tried 6:32 a few years ago and they kept on breaking. Now it's 8:32's. Mike
By the way it was Wayne Galligan from Texas. He spent a summer up here a while back. Great guy.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:14 AM
  #333
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mups53

Bob Pastorelli had that on his website a longtime ago. He called it ''Wayne's wheelpants''. I guess he stole it from you. I think the website was RCrats or something like that. He was incredible with giving building and flying tips. I wish he still had it. He's a guy I would have liked to have met in the sport.
Matt what size bolts do you use for the axles? I tried 6:32 a few years ago and they kept on breaking. Now it's 8:32's. Mike
By the way it was Wayne galligan from Texas. He spent a summer up here a while back. Great guy.
Oh, aplogies; that sounds right. But I wouldn't call it "stolen" since I gave the idea freely to several guys back then. And of course, the several dozen gear sets I sold, all had it stock. I think I spoke with Bob Pastorello about that back then when I sent him his set of gear, and he wanted to change his website but I told him not to bother. No biggie as far as I am concerned.

His "Pastomounts" (Hyde style) have been in my stable for at least a decade. I would never have progressed with gas engine for pattern developments if I had to buy a mount for every gas engine from Hyde. The Hyde style mount is by far the best soft mount for that purpose

I use 8-32 flathead aluminum bolts. BTW - I also use aluminum nuts, both on near and far sides of pants. I layer the near side with 3K carbon cloth first and then glue the nut in. The inside of the strut is countesunk such that after assembly, there is no bolt head protruding. Very tidy, super light weight too.....I'll take a pic tonight if I remember. My current gear flying weight is less than 5 ounces complete (pants, struts, wheels, axles). The 20" prop has about 1 1/2" clearance.

For the mounting method, one may look in my Derivative thread...also super light (about 25-30 grams) and strong enough; works fine. The mounting is an adaptation/modification of WistModel's technique. Struts are fitted-molded to fit the socket exactly...no slop
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:41 AM
  #334
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Thanks Matt I look forward to seeing the picture. Sounds like you've got it down, MIke
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:32 PM
  #335
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My Nuance is nicely in trim after 16 flights with the stock wing incidence. Flights 17 & 18 tonight with the new PT 21x13 which I like very much.  The prop speed must be very close to Vmax for the airframe as the feel is just right at mid throttle on the Advance. With CGs of 270-275 the elevators are neutral with the heavier prop which makes me happy. (I am going to fly several flights at both CGs over the coming weeks to see which works best for me while learning the Intermediate schedule.) The aileron trim is 1mm per side off neutral (commanding right roll) and I can live with that while I get used to my "Airship." At the moment, I could not be happier with the Nuance and each landing brings a big smile to my face (those who have observed the variety of my arrivals will get this with some relief I'd imagine LOL)! It's nice to spend time flying the schedule rather than trimming too!
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:13 PM
  #336
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Had both the Nuance and the Prolog out last night. We found out that the canopy's can be fit onto either plane. So we wondered what a Nuance canopy looked like on the Prolog and vis versa.
The wings are almost the same but the Prolog is 1" further back and has less sweep. It's more edge like. Mike
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:17 AM
  #337
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A couple of people asked me for a pic of my cheap spinner. It's a http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRBB3&P=0
I like how it allows the cooling to enter. I realize it's not for everyone but I like it. Mike
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:04 AM
  #338
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mups53

A couple of people asked me for a pic of my cheap spinner. It's a http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRBB3&P=0
I like how it allows the cooling to enter. I realize it's not for everyone but I like it. Mike
Ha, ha.... Excellent Mike! Works for IC just the same.

The reasoning is simple: some of the most distrubed air happens right at the hub and does almost nothing to create thrust. Why not have that air actually do some work? You may actually bring the backplate inside the nose plate and catch even more air
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:52 AM
  #339
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: MTK


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mups53

A couple of people asked me for a pic of my cheap spinner. It's a http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRBB3&P=0
I like how it allows the cooling to enter. I realize it's not for everyone but I like it. Mike
Ha, ha.... Excellent Mike! Works for IC just the same.

The reasoning is simple: some of the most distrubed air happens right at the hub and does almost nothing to create thrust. Why not have that air actually do some work? You may actually bring the backplate inside the nose plate and catch even more air
Great idea Matt all it needs to do is clear the prop. Next time!!! Mike
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:23 AM
  #340
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Here's a couple of pics of my Nuance taken by my friend Derek Abramson at our field. It's flying well and getting better with every adjustment.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:26 AM
  #341
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Hi Guys. I have about 25 flights on my Nuance and am noticing that I need a throttle to left rudder mix. I also have a small low throttle to right aileron mix for dowlines as the planes tends to roll left in downlines. I also have the usual low throttle to down elevator mix. I have been following Bryan Herbert's trimming method. My CG is now about 280mm or so and my wing incidence is about .6-,7 degrees positive. I seem to be carrying a few clicks of left rudder trim even at mid throttle. Any ideas to get rid of the throttle to rudder mix? I am using a Hacker C50 14xi with a Falcon 20.5x14.4 v2 prop. Thanks
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:43 AM
  #342
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Hi jayjayneri

You may want to check the alignment of your firewall. Sounds like you may need some thrust adjustment. What does your plane do on long vertical uplines? Does it veer to the right? If so, your firewall/motor mount may not be correct and you may need to add left thrust to get it lined up correctly. I think Bryan's methods assume everything is aligned correctly in order to begin the trimming sequence. So, I would recommend that you make sure it is tracking straight on vertical upline to see if your thrust is correct. I think I added 1 shim washer to my motor mount to correct for my misalignment of the firewall during assembly.


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Old 07-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #343
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Hi Shannah. I do suspect you are correct and I may have too much right thrust. I did not yet add any shims because I wanted to hear from you guys who are also flying Nuances about your experience with the plane. With the rudder centered, the plane does veer to the right both on uplines and level flight. When the rudder is trimmed for hands off horizontal flight at half throttle, the plane veers to the right when the throttle is cut and slightly to the left in uplines. BJ Park suggests using upthrust and downthrust to correct for yaw in trimming so I will probably take hs advice based on his notes about the Nuance.i
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  #344
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There is never a need to use a throttle to rudder mix. If you think you need it, you don't have the thrust line set properly. Take out a bit of the right thrust you have in it and try again. With the rudder set to dead neutral, adjust the side thrust until it goes straight up. Also check that in straight and level flight the model does not "flat turn". Fly it straight away from you and make sure it stays on a heading, not slightly turning with the wings level.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:58 PM
  #345
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Never is a long time. Jay what you are feeling is what I to feel but I am no authority in trimming. However CPLR and I do compare notes quit often and I can assure you that he does use that mix as well as many other top pilots. It is not a mix that will take you from a 5th place guy to 1st overnight but a few of us less experienced pilots do feel its important. I think maybe Tony tried it once and had it going the wrong way by accident. I know we discovered his rudder to elev. mix was doing exactley that a month or so ago on the Onas and once that was taken care of his flying really improved. I am not poking fun or anything like that, I am just saying we are all human and even the best guys can fly 300+ flights and not be able to detect a certain problem when a new set of eyes can take one glance see it immediately. Hope this helps...

C


[quote]ORIGINAL: TonyF

There is never a need to use a throttle to rudder mix.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #346
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Thanks Tony any Chip for all your inputs. I guess I will just continue to fly and trim my Nuance until I feel totally comfortable with it. It is a fantastic plane for sure and presents very well. I did remove and reinstall the motor as well as swap the rudder servo for a new one. I flew yesterday day the wind was to strong for me to conclude that the throttle to rudder mix was gone but I am sure that the plane did require less throttle to rudder mix, if any.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:46 PM
  #347
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Chip is such a hoot! Don't remember saying anything against him in my post and it's kind of hard to understand why he took some shots at me.

jayjayneri, since you wanted info to try to eliminate the throttle to rudder mix, I hope my info helped. I tried the throttle to rudder mix a while back with Chip's insistence, but I found for me it caused other problems and could be eliminated with careful adjustment of the side thrust/rudder trim. I think it's one of those things that in theory sounds good but in practice it's not needed. At least that's how I saw it but YMMV. Chip seems to feel it's needed but it just didn't seem that way for me.

I also noted your need for a throttle to aileron mix. What motor are you using and are you using any braking in the downlines? Also, are your ailerons centered at level trim? A lot of the Nuances I have seen and heard about the stock incidence settings require some aileron trim. I think you really need to get any roll trim out by adjusting the wing incidences. I installed adjusters in mine and I started with the incidences as originally built in to the model. The 1st few flights needed roll trim but I adjusted it out. That may be the source of your roll on downlines.

Now I guess I'll get to see what I said now that Chip didn't like!
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:43 AM
  #348
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I agree with Tony. When I flew mine with the stock wing settings, it too had a slight roll. After adjusting it out with wing adjusters I installed, the problem went away. It didn't take much, but it was definitely there.

Arch
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:47 AM
  #349
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: TonyF

Chip is such a hoot! Don't remember saying anything against him in my post and it's kind of hard to understand why he took some shots at me.

jayjayneri, since you wanted info to try to eliminate the throttle to rudder mix, I hope my info helped. I tried the throttle to rudder mix a while back with Chip's insistence, but I found for me it caused other problems and could be eliminated with careful adjustment of the side thrust/rudder trim. I think it's one of those things that in theory sounds good but in practice it's not needed. At least that's how I saw it but YMMV. Chip seems to feel it's needed but it just didn't seem that way for me.

I also noted your need for a throttle to aileron mix. What motor are you using and are you using any braking in the downlines? Also, are your ailerons centered at level trim? A lot of the Nuances I have seen and heard about the stock incidence settings require some aileron trim. I think you really need to get any roll trim out by adjusting the wing incidences. I installed adjusters in mine and I started with the incidences as originally built in to the model. The 1st few flights needed roll trim but I adjusted it out. That may be the source of your roll on downlines.

Now I guess I'll get to see what I said now that Chip didn't like!
YMMV... had to look that up Tony.
As long as I've been flying it never ceases to amaze me how long it takes to figure a plane out. Seems like I find something new every time I go flying that improves the flying. My problem is I get tired of planes just about the time I think I have them figured out. I think it's a compensation for being married to the same woman for 34 years and having the same job for 28 years.
I've got enough flights now on the Prolog to feel confident that I made a good decision switching. That in no waymeans the Nuance is nota great plane. It meansthat I find the Prolog tobe a better match for me.YMMV but hey that's why they have apples and oranges.
Chip if your following I can't wait to have a few cold ones with you and Bobby soon. Bud Light Lime right??? I know you and Tony are good friends.Your both tops on my who's who of this sport.Styles vary and spirited differences are healthy. Take care all, Mike Mueller
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:50 AM
  #350
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Sooo... How many Nuances going to the Nats?
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