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Thread: Nuance


  1. #501

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    RE: Nuance

    Hey Chris,
    Where'd you get the honeycomb material? Prior postings in various threads have pointed to source(s) with CF or fiberglass layers. I haven't spotted the stuff like you use.
    Thanks for your postings on Episode and Nuance.

    Dan

  2. #502
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    RE: Nuance

    http://www.acpsales.com/Sandwich-Panels.html

    This where I buy this stuff...

  3. #503
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    RE: Nuance

    I will double check that after work. thanks.

    4595 is light. I agree. shocked me. several who picked if up noticed how light it was. I believe I used the f3aunlimited 5000 to weigh. could have been the f3au 4500s though.

    chris
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  4. #504
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    RE: Nuance

    aerospace composites here in cali. they are 30 minutes from where I live and on my way to work. makes it convenient for me. the stuff I used is a stronger heavier honeycomb. I knew mounting the elevator servo on it, it would need to be stronger. I also added a carbon rod to make it not move. I have seen honeycomb flex cause trim issues.

    chris
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    RE: Nuance

    Is the material used to make the trays this??
    http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=426
    Thanks, Mike
    Mike Mueller
    F3AUnlimited.com and Gator-RC Products
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  6. #506

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    RE: Nuance

    Mike,

    No that's the stuff in the center of the panel. This is the one you want that is glassed on both sides.

    http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5084

    Pat


  7. #507

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    RE: Nuance

    Oh I missed asking what I was thinking.
    Is the stuff I posted the material for making the panels at home?
    I want to get a vacuum bagging system on do it myself. Thanks, Pat.
    Mike
    Mike Mueller
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  8. #508
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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: mups53

    Β*Is the material used to make the trays this??
    http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=426
    Β*Thanks, Mike
    http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5084

    This is the one I use in my Nuance and will use also in the next project, the Episode.

    I hope it helps.

    Ram
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  9. #509

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    RE: Nuance

    Mike,

    I thiught that might be what you were asking. And yes, it is the stuff to make your own.

    Pat


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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: patternflyer1

    I will double check that after work. thanks.

    4595 is light. I agree. shocked me. several who picked if up noticed how light it was. I believe I used the f3aunlimited 5000 to weigh. could have been the f3au 4500s though.

    chris
    My Nuance is 4650g with Rhino 4900, RS carbon prop, plastic spinner and I also changed the original landing gear to RS. (less swap)
    I think that under this weight it is too light to handle strong wind.

    Did you face any problems with this setup in strong wind?

    Ram

  11. #511
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    RE: Nuance

    with cg forward I havent noticed wind issues different than a heavier plane.

    chris
    Team BJ Craft Team F3A Unlimited
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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: mups53

    Oh I missed asking what I was thinking.
    Is the stuff I posted the material for making the panels at home?
    I want to get a vacuum bagging system on do it myself. Thanks, Pat.
    Mike
    Mike, a suggestion...

    For smaller jobs, a food saver vacuum packer works great. WalMart carries some systems at reasonable prices.How I make all of my firewalls and canopy bay floors, and soft mount facings

    Asingle layer of 3K carbon cloth on each side of cross grained balsa for firewalls of gas engines as large as DLE55 isplenty strong enough but engine must be soft mounted....

    A single layer of that carbon cloth on each side of 1/8"Nomex honeycomb should be all you need for e stuff in the motor area. Remember to always back up the holes with a piece of carbon tubing to keep the laminate from crushing
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

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    RE: Nuance

    Mike


    Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.


    http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages...zerSystem.aspx


    Mark
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  14. #514

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    RE: Nuance

    [quote]ORIGINAL: mwoytassek

    Mike


    Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.




    You guys have been watching to much Martha Stewart !

    Getting all crafty....
    Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over ?

  15. #515
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    RE: Nuance


    [quote]ORIGINAL: Flyer88

    ORIGINAL: mwoytassek

    Mike


    Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.




    You guys have been watching to much Martha Stewart !

    Getting all crafty....












    Be veweey veweey quiet....You might learn somethin'

    God forbid!!
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  16. #516

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    RE: Nuance



    Rookie here again

    2 questions

    Why are you using vacuum to laminate CF to Ply or sandwhich material, what is the benefit over just laying the cloth on the material and soaking the cloth

    And how are you doing the vacuum bagging. What is the process, I have never done it

    Bill

    Bill

  17. #517

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    RE: Nuance

    Ola Fremming has some great articles on making various bits and pieces for F3A planes, these 2 might be of use.

    http://www.ofremmi.info/HowTo/Honeco...omb_panels.htm

    http://www.ofremmi.info/HowTo/Vacuumbag/VacuumBag.htm

  18. #518
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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: Bubblehead575



    Rookie here again

    2 questions

    Why are you using vacuum to laminate CF to Ply or sandwhich material, what is the benefit over just laying the cloth on the material and soaking the cloth

    And how are you doing the vacuum bagging. What is the process, I have never done it

    Bill

    Vacuum does several things.

    Primarily, it exposes the joint toreasonably high clamping force. Typical vacuum in this app is around 22" Hg or around 10 pounds per square inch clamping force.
    Clamps with a very even force around the whole area of the part. Not that easy a thing to do with other methods
    It increases the mass ratio of carbon (or other) to epoxy. For composites, it improves part stiffness and reduces weight (less epoxy is required)
    It removes air bubbles from the epoxy which were placed there when mixing. In continuous vacuum systems (not the subject of these last few posts), vacuum removes off-gas given off by the polymerization reaction and produces a stronger part. For some military apps, this is a must; again, it doesn't matter in our app

    Rookie Bill, ask whatever questions you have in PM's please, or better yet, directly to email. I've highjacked this thread enough. Off to other things.....
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  19. #519

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    RE: Nuance

    Matt,
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and the  open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
    John

  20. #520
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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: jgg215

    Matt,
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and the open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
    John
    Of course you can. It's simple!There is one other element of course so please think about it and you will figure it out

    I don't use prepreg; just too expensive for my tastes. And I don't have a fancy oven to followthe thermalprotocol.

    BTW- the last honeycomb composite panel stock I made, used 1/16" honeycomb stock. I used 2 layers of it sandwiching 1.4 oz cloth between the honeycomb and 2 oz cloth on each side of the honeycomb. Produced some very light canopy bay flooring and rudder servo mount. This is being used in my DLE55 powered Delta. I will post photos at some point in my Derivative thread....
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  21. #521

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    RE: Nuance

    I bought a sheet of the ACP glass/honeycomb and found it to be nearly twice as heavy as some glass/honeycomb I had left over from a Smaragd I built a few years back. I also have some glass/honeycomb I made myself and it's also about half the weight of the APC stuff made with pre-preg, though not as nice as the Smaragd stuff. My conclusion which may be inaccurate is that pre-preg is heavy since the honycomb should weigh the same.

    Verne


    ORIGINAL: jgg215

    Matt,
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and theΒ* open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
    John

  22. #522

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    RE: Nuance

    hi
    I have used 2 layers off 1,5mm balsa layed in "cross" with 50gr/m2 carbon on both sides all glued with thin epoxy cured between some thick mylar sheets we have at work and with some heavy weight on .
    Stiff and pretty light , used this for servo trays and battery plates
    Rune Gjelsnes
    email: rungjels@gmail.com
    Norway

  23. #523

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    RE: Nuance

    I bought a sheet of the ACP glass/honeycomb and found it to be nearly twice as heavy as some glass/honeycomb I had left over from a Smaragd I built a few years back. I also have some glass/honeycomb I made myself and it's also about half the weight of the APC stuff made with pre-preg, though not as nice as the Smaragd stuff. My conclusion which may be inaccurate is that pre-preg is heavy since the honycomb should weigh the same.

    Verne
    Just curious, why use the glass honeycomb and not the CF, which is incredibly light?

    I have seen this elsewhere but don't understand what benefits the glass sandwich offers that CF doesn't. (Besides CF being some nasty stuff to get in your lungs...)
    Bob

  24. #524

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    RE: Nuance

    I use the glass/honeycomb primarily for my rudder tray which also holds the Rx, Digiswitch, and Rx battery. My main concern on glass versus carbon is the antennas coming off the Rx. It might not matter, but I feel better keeping those away from carbon. I use carbon/nomex for my motor battery tray.

    Verne





  25. #525

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    RE: Nuance


    ORIGINAL: VerneK

    I use the glass/honeycomb primarily for my rudder tray which also holds the Rx, Digiswitch, and Rx battery. My main concern on glass versus carbon is the antennas coming off the Rx. It might not matter, but I feel better keeping those away from carbon. I use carbon/nomex for my motor battery tray.

    Verne







    What he said ditto x 2
    Mike Mueller
    F3AUnlimited.com and Gator-RC Products
    1800 591 2875
    mikemueller@F3AUnlimited.com
    Team JR America


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