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New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

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Old 05-02-2012, 08:48 AM
  #26
Doug Cronkhite
 
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Nice flying, and I absolutely LOVE that music from Inception. One of my favorite movie scores ever.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:52 PM
  #27
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Is the Citrin all composite in construction? Or are the wings balsa? Thanks.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:25 AM
  #28
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hi, it's a fully composite kit, as with all Oxai planes.


Juan, that is a great video, very nice indeed. It's difficult to get a real feel for the pace but judging from the video it appears to fly fairly slowely and you manage to make the likes of the rolling horizontal 8 nice and compact.

How are you finding the CG...the same as the factory recommendation? What sort of mixes are you needing?

Regards
Clint
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:38 AM
  #29
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hey Clint, how can you just say that!!!!

My Inspec is a built up balsa wing. Glassed and painted (In fact, I just presume it is glassed. It may be primed and painted - which is why the surface is so delicate). The fuselage is laid up in a mould with a glass outside and balsa inner layer. (Balsa composite, more or less like my Black Magic[8D] )

As far as I am aware it is painted afterwards, by hand. As I understand it, each Oxai is hand made and painted (Looking at the excess epoxy in my Inspec I can believe it!)

I'm hoping my Citrin is the same[8D]
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:31 AM
  #30
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

One thing is for sure.....you don't need to take a covering iron to it
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:04 PM
  #31
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hi Clint

About CG, yes, this first flights I'm using the same as the factory recommendation, front edge back 115mm of down wing. About mixes, just a little RUD-ELEV ( less than Amethyst) and maybe in down lines get a litlle mixed with elev...

About the speed, Is easy to go fast in F3A, everything is easier. For me is better and nicer fly closer and slower to allows the judge see all the schedule and I think that this plane allows you to make it.

Regards

Juan


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Old 05-04-2012, 03:09 AM
  #32
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

GRANTB,
think u will find they are tissue covered! , thats why they are so light!!. i have done a few repairs on oxai models for fellow flyers.

regards
steve.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:26 AM
  #33
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rombaut

Hi Clint

About CG, yes, this first flights I'm using the same as the factory recommendation, front edge back 115mm of down wing. About mixes, just a little RUD-ELEV ( less than Amethyst) and maybe in down lines get a litlle mixed with elev...

About the speed, Is easy to go fast in F3A, everything is easier. For me is better and nicer fly closer and slower to allows the judge see all the schedule and I think that this plane allows you to make it.

Regards

Juan


Having looked at F3A to get slower and closer - for -probably 25 years -I gave up - In studying the current winning styles - the maneuvers are as big as IMAC stuf (or even old TOC patterns in some cases) and I see no trend amongst the "winning combos " to change this.
Not sour grapes - it simply is what it is.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:00 AM
  #34
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Thanks Juan, 150m is a lot closer than most people think, and I expect the bipe will make managing the speed easier, especially keeping the fuze horizontal when on KE even when relatively slow. This will be even more pronounced when flying at altitude like we do here in Johannesburg (5000 feet). Its good to hear that the mix requirement is minimal. Judging from your feedback it seems that there is little to no push or pull when on KE i.e. no need for rud to elev mix with the CG at the recommended location?

Regards
Clint
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:27 PM
  #35
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

I'm totally agree with you. 150m is very close. Many times I train with my father at 150m to check the distance, this test is very useful.

About mixes. I use more or less 2% pulling elevator on KE using the recommended CG. But I am still trimming and we will see how it ends...

Regards.
Juan
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:36 AM
  #36
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Juan, will be great if you can let us know where you end up with your CG and the associated mixes.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:11 AM
  #37
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hi,
Well the long wait is finally over. After placing the order in early Jan, the Citrin finally arrived in Johannesburg. Grant and I each ordered one, and they arrived in their wood crates with no damage. Packaging was very good.

It’s my first Oxai build and first bipe. I’ll post some progress on the build as it progresses.

Build quality is fantastic. Everything fits together perfectly. Some of the guesswork things are pre-done. For example the elevator and rudder horn holes are predrilled. Also the rudder cut-outs for the wires are pre-done, which is great. The finish is top class Oxai. If one looks carefully there are some small imperfections in the fuze mold. But this is as good as one can expect. The paint scheme and finish is awesome. I just want to hang it in my house!!! But as would be expected in keeping the weight down the construction is such that it’s not going to resist dings and scrapes. Fortunately the excellent covers will help. They too fit really nicely and are worth the extra expense.

I’ll post weights of individual components later, but the weight of the fuze, stabs, wings, gear and spats including all stab tubes and wing mounting hardware is 2365g on my scale, which is only 15g more than the claimed weight of 2350g on the Oxai website. Hence there should be no problem making weight provided one uses the likes of BLS servos, carbon prop and spinner etc. I’m hoping for a weight of 3800g all up without the main flight battery pack.

Some pics thus far:

The two boxes with planes nicely packed and damage free.

My home made rudder horn such that the rudder horn offset from the hinge line is catered for. As a result there is no stacking or tensioning of the rudder lines at extremes of rudder throw.

Stab servo installations with BLS153 servos, MK ball links and Central Hobbies titanium rod ends and carbon rods. Everything fits nicely and results in a slop free linkage with the servo arm and linkage at 90deg.

Wheel spats are tiny and will not accept a normal 55mm wheel. I opened them up with a dremel . The one on the left has been modified. Not the greatest spats I've seen but they should be fine.

Landing gear bolts in nicely, but is very rigid. I’m concerned that it does not have enough give and as such will be hard on the fuze mountings. I’m considering installing a different set of gear with more flexibility.

Landing gear plate. I have installed additional carbon cloth where the gear plate interfaces with the fuze so as to reduce the likelihood of fuze damage for a less than ideal landing.

The plane assembled, but much work still remains to install wing servos, motor, battey tray, radio install etc.

Regards
Clint
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #38
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cartercg
Wheel spats are tiny and will not accept a normal 55mm wheel. I opened them up with a dremel . The one on the left has been modified. Not the greatest spats I've seen but they should be fine.
I agree, the Oxai spats are tiny. I don't know what others are using for wheels, but I had a set of light foam wheels from Aircraft-world where the hub was thin enough to fit without having to open up the spat hole. Mounting the wheel in the drill press and getting stuck up the foam with a sanding board got the wheel diameter and profile to the right size. They've seen two years of trouble free duty flying off grass, but I don't know if you can buy them anymore?
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:32 PM
  #39
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Nice going Clint

Its lookin really good. All I can say is thank goodness for the rest of us that you and GB didnt have them ready for the SA nats.

Looks like they gonna perform really well. [8D]

Jase
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:38 PM
  #40
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rmh

Having looked at F3A to get slower and closer - for -probably 25 years -I gave up - In studying the current winning styles - the maneuvers are as big as IMAC stuf (or even old TOC patterns in some cases) and I see no trend amongst the ''winning combos '' to change this.
Not sour grapes - it simply is what it is.
Sorry to hijack this thread but I have seen by watching you tube videos that the top guys dont fly at 150m. There maneuvers are fast and big but draw a fair line between them. What is the common distance used by the current winners?
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:30 PM
  #41
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hi Clinton

Looking great. The stipulated model weights on the Oxai web page exclude landing gear and spats, so you received an in spec version.

One only appreciate the true build quality of the Oxai products when you order replacement parts (wings, stabs) and they fit 100%.

Hope to see both flying soon.

Regards

Burt
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:55 AM
  #42
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt


Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyf3a

.........so you received an in spec version............
Thanks Burt. On that basis mine comes in at 2337g. Only problem is that I ALREADY have an "INSPEC" version I was hoping for a "CITRIN" version[>:]
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:12 AM
  #43
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Hi guys, I was not aware that the weight on the Oxai site excludes gear and spats. I made a mistake with my previous weights and all up dry weight including gear and spats is about 2488g. I can't tell for sure exactly as I was already well into the installation before realising I had missed something. Anyway it would not make any real difference as I've been trying to build it as light anyway. I've also done some dremel work on the spats, battery latch, rudder servo mount etc and just that alone saved more than 20g. But with a plane like this you have to put in light equipment.

See some pics below on the build:

Aileron linkage, complete with Futaba BLS153, Central Hobbies titanium rod ends and carbon rod, MK ball links and a small horn. Installation was straight forward, but the bottom of the servo does touch the bottom of the wing, so a small spacer was required to lift the one side of the servo slightly.

The spats had to be opened up a lot to fit the 55m wheel and NMP wheel axil. They were then very flimsy at the attachment points so I reinforced with some fibreglass cloth. I’ll paint them later. I used a 3mm countersunk bolt that goes into a small 3mm blind nut to prevent the spat from rotating.

The motor mount was the most involved part of the build. It is slightly different as the design does not have a traditional “flat” nose. The required thrust is built into the nose, but there is no structure to secure a motor mount to. My front mount is made out of carbon plate that I laminated, and is 2.7mm thick. The motor is a Pletti Advance. What I did was use a modified protractor to etch out a line where the nose bends into the inside of the plane. This line is parallel to the required thurst. I then used a dremel and removed the material until I had a reference that was exactly parallel to the built in thrust. Then I measured how far back the motor would need to be in order to be flush with the nose. Given that the carbon plate is 2.7mm thick I then needed a 3mm balsa spacer to have the motor exactly where I need it. Then I cut the carbon to size such that it fits nicely and the motor is centered. Then I made suitable cutouts in the carbon plate to get the weight down and allow air to flow to the motor. The front mount weighed less than 20g and uses 3 bolts for the motor.

Although it is probably not required, I feel a bit more comfortable if the motor is also supported at the back. The rear support that goes around the outside of the motor (like with the old 14XL) works well but is perhaps a bit heavy for my liking. What I did is machine a small carbon brace that clips onto the rear bearing hub on the back of the Advance. It is just the right size so that with a little pressure it just clips on nice and snug. Then there are two small tabs that go onto the sides of the fuze. The whole rear mount including tabs and 2mm bolts weighed 7g!!!!

The result is a nice light motor mount, supported front and rear. The whole mount including front and rear mounts, bolts and glue was less than 35g. I don’t think it can be done much lighter.

The last part of the build was the installation of the battery tray. Speed controller etc. I'll post more on that later.

Regards
Clint
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:20 AM
  #44
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Ok, here are some more pics from the build....

The big scoop at the bottom of the motor should get plenty of airflow onto the Advance.

The battery tray is made of 3mm balsa laminated on both sides with carbon cloth.

The battery tray was installed halfway up in the fuse, similar to the pics on the Oxai website. The Spin99 speed controller is attached to the side of the fuze with velcro. Rx battery attaches with velcro to the landing gear plate. An Emcotech regulator/switch is installed but not visible. It is the 5.9/7.2V spec. I note that Wolfgang runs his normal futaba servos at 7.2V. I'll have the option but have not yet decided if I will run at 7.2V. With a flip of the micro switch on the Emcotech I will be able to see if there is much of a difference in servo speed and torque.

Rudder servo is Futaba BLS451. I did a fair amount of trimming of the supplied rudder servo monting braces and must have saved at least 5g.

The Futaba R6208SB Rx is 8 channels and all 8 are used. The battery is pluged into the Rx S-Bus port. Rx is attached to fuze with velcro. The aileron extension leads seem a bit too heavy duty and I may change them out later for lighter ones and same a few more grams.

Weights at present ready to fly is:

Fuze 2573g
Top wing 636g
Bottom wing 656g
Wing attachments 46g
Total without main flight pack 3911g
Hyperion 4600 25C 1134g
Total with main pack 5046g

I have a Meslijk 21/13 extra light prop on the way, and it will save another 40g, bringing the total weight to 5000g, which is fine. There are a few other small opportunities for further weight savings. The rudder servo used is 15g heavier than the one recommended by Wolfgang.

So I'll make weight without too much of a problem. But it comes at a cost as everthing has to be the lightest etc.

I was hoping to maiden her this afternoon, but the last few items took longer than expected and I was not going to rush things. So tomorrow morning I hope to be airborn and will revert back on my first impressions.

Regards
Clint
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:19 AM
  #45
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Looks really nice Clint[8D][8D]

All the best for the maiden tomorrow morning. I'm REALLY sorry that I will miss it. Check out everything as if you are me. After all those building hours one becomes so familiar with everything that it is easy to overlook something.

100 bucks on taking off with one click right on the aileron trim and one click down on elevator.

Now, about those Mejzlik extra light props that I am bringing in for you I am leaving town on business tomorrow. Would be really nice if MY Citrin is finished by the time I get back on Sunday
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:59 AM
  #46
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

The maiden went well this morning. It was a beautiful calm and clear winters morning in Africa! After going through the plane carefully and doing a range test etc it was time to get her airborn. On takeoff she rolled off nicely but then pitched up into the gear very quickly and started to nose over a little. I pulled her off and she went up nicely but needed a lot of up trim. Turns out the factory set (adjustable) stab was not well set and had too much down elevator. Other than that she required very little else. It was my first time flying a bipe, and I found that the wings etc presented fine and there wasn't a big adjustment from flying the mono. The big ah moment was when I rolled her onto knife edge and applied about the same amount of rudder as I used to keep my Peridot on knide edge. She proceeded to then do a fairly nice big knife edge loop. Boy the rudder is powerful, and I'll have to go up on the rudder expo and get used to it. After landing I lowered the leading edge of the stab by 2.5 turns on the stab adjuster, and that got ride of the up elevator trim. By the second flight she was already starting to feel locked in. The aileron alignment seems very good as she does not roll handsoff upright or inverted. Down line will need a little of the usual low throttle to down elev mix. I'll still need to play with the knife edge coupling, but she seems to need very little mix. So far I'm really happy.

I had to keep it to 2 flights as a lunch appointment with the missus kept me from the field. Happy wife = happy life.....

There were only two small things to attend to after the first flights. 1) The one main wheel was binding slightly, and 2) the stab had a little bit of play in it. Both were easy fixes. For the stab issue I applied some CA to the two carbon tubes that attach the stabs to the fuze, and thereby built up their diameter a little. That worked great and they are now a nice stug fit and there is no play at all.

See some pics from JOMAC field this morning (on the northern side of Johannesburg):

Wind sock was standing still but by the time I got airborn there was a slight breeze down the runway...perfect for a first flight.

The Citrin fits in my SUV fine, but goes in upside down. The plane with cradle fit in without any problems.

Assembly is straight forward. First the bottom wing is attached with two 4mm bolts. Then it gets turned upright and the two wing struts get attached, followed by the top wing with its two 3mm bolts. In the one pic you can see were I have opened up two holes in the landing gear area to provide some air exit for cooling.

I started with the CG slightly forward of the recommended CG as I ended up a bit further forward than Wolfgang's setting on my Peridot. The Hyperion 4600 25C batteries sit nicely and is easily accessible via the top battery hatch.

Pics of the plane just before the first flight. Note the nice prop clearance, which I needed when she pitched forward on takoff due to the stab having to much down elev incidence.

Regards
Clint
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:37 AM
  #47
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Well done Clint.

Sorry I wasn't there for the maiden[]
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:30 AM
  #48
Rombaut
 
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Congrats Clint!

I hope you got my message

Well, here another video of my Citrin that still flying perfect.

https://vimeo.com/43692025

Regards

Juan

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:57 AM
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Neil Collins
 
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Rombaut

Congrats Clint!

I hope you got my message

Well, here another video of my Citrin that still flying perfect.

https://vimeo.com/43692025

Regards

Juan

Wow Juan awesome video, I would lie to do something similar, what camera are you using?

Regards

Neil
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:42 PM
  #50
Jason Arnold
 
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Default RE: New OXAI CITRIN by Wolfgang and Roland Matt

Just watched your video and was amazed at how much unrestrained wires move around inside the model. Wires can only bend so many times before they break...

Cheers,
Jason.
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