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Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

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Old 06-27-2012, 06:42 AM
  #26
rix
 
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

I am testing a pair of 5000 25c compact packs, just breaking them in. I replaced the 5mm bullets that came with them with 4mm. They weigh in at 1167grams...nice.

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Old 06-28-2012, 03:33 AM
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ORIGINAL: rgreen24

Any more word on how you like the new batteries - 2 sunny

I have a total of 4 flights on the batteries now. The IRs on both are 0.x to 1.x. I haven't graphed them inflight yet, but will try to do that tomorrow. My short answer is: these are great batteries, but I have no idea how long they may last. For what it's worth I am just now retiring my oldest set of Rhinos after 3 years and about 60 cycles because one cell has an IR of 6 while the others are still 1s and 2s. The pack did not "fail" yet, but I'm happy with 3 seasons of use. In my Pegasus, which is exceptionally light I feel this "heavy" battery gives me an ideal CG that optimizes tracking, and so I plan on buying a couple more to use in competition. Especially since I need every advantage I can to catch up to JR in the next D1/D2 Shootout


Cheers,

Joe
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:10 AM
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ORIGINAL: 2Sunny

New batteries are in and so far so good. I'll post IR's in a bit, but here's the weight.

1265g with APPs (They were 1270g before APP)

Got 2 of the Zippy 5800's yesterday from Hobby King one was 1298g and the 0ther 1306 [&o], looks like the latest batch are using slightly heavier cells. Luckily I'm still within the weight limit....
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:13 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


Thanks for the info - did you receive two packs with 2x5S or two 10S packs ?
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:23 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

They came as a 10S brick...
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:34 AM
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ORIGINAL: Niall

They came as a 10S brick...
At 1300 grams you're not wrong in saying it's a brick! [&:]

Cheers,
Jason.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:01 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

They are advertised as 1283g, so that's not horribly off the mark for a 5800!

Depending on lead wire length and type of connector, could be less...
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:02 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


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ORIGINAL: Jason Arnold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Niall

They came as a 10S brick...
At 1300 grams you're not wrong in saying it's a brick! [&:]

Cheers,
Jason.
At 1300 grams for 5800 I'm willing to take the extra weight for the extra capacity. If you compare it to a standard 5000 its better value per gram. Plus I should be able to get to the end of the schedule with very little change in voltage and thus performance. I'm using this in an Asyuler, not sure if ill use these in comp flights but should make excellent practice packs with the ability to go round and try a few extra manouveres without the normal guilty feeling
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:07 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

Hi Bob,
The website lists 1268 with a shipping weight of 1283 (whatever thats about). 2 Sunnys packs were 1265 (see page 1). This morning I cut the cables and put Emcotec 6mm connectors on so now i have packs at 1293 and 1301.


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Old 08-30-2012, 03:14 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Niall


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jason Arnold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Niall

They came as a 10S brick...
At 1300 grams you're not wrong in saying it's a brick! [&:]

Cheers,
Jason.
At 1300 grams for 5800 I'm willing to take the extra weight for the extra capacity. If you compare it to a standard 5000 its better value per gram. Plus I should be able to get to the end of the schedule with very little change in voltage and thus performance. I'm using this in an Asyuler, not sure if ill use these in comp flights but should make excellent practice packs with the ability to go round and try a few extra manouveres without the normal guilty feeling
You can argue it that way but IMHO you'd be better off practicing with what you're going to compete with. Running a heavier pack (150grams above normal) will make a difference in how the model flys.

I don't really notice any great drop off in performance towards the end of a schedule with 5000mAh packs. Perhaps it just gets down to how you manage your throttle or your throttle curve set-up... Correct set-up of your throttle in the ESC and TX can make a huge difference to the smoothness and efficiency of your model.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:29 AM
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Hi Jason,

I generally take about 3400-3600 per P schedule using the Contra, so I would consider that pretty ok throttle management. Obviously if the model became a pig then then I wouldn't continue using these but we will wait and see. As you say I don't notice a major performance drop off at the end of a flight with 5000's but if you look at a data logger your going lower and lower on voltage throughout a flight which means that the pack is working harder at the end of the flight than at the start. the only time I have seen performance issues is when its extremely windy, which seems to happen a lot here in Ireland lately.

The model I'm flying , Asyuler, was designed originally for glow so the initial flying weight was probably anywhere from 5.2 to 5.3KG so I'm still way below this.

Anyway I get that you don't think this is a good idea but i'll try it anyway....


Regards

Niall
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:00 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jason Arnold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Niall


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jason Arnold


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Niall

They came as a 10S brick...
At 1300 grams you're not wrong in saying it's a brick! [&:]

Cheers,
Jason.
At 1300 grams for 5800 I'm willing to take the extra weight for the extra capacity. If you compare it to a standard 5000 its better value per gram. Plus I should be able to get to the end of the schedule with very little change in voltage and thus performance. I'm using this in an Asyuler, not sure if ill use these in comp flights but should make excellent practice packs with the ability to go round and try a few extra manouveres without the normal guilty feeling
You can argue it that way but IMHO you'd be better off practicing with what you're going to compete with. Running a heavier pack (150grams above normal) will make a difference in how the model flys.

I don't really notice any great drop off in performance towards the end of a schedule with 5000mAh packs. Perhaps it just gets down to how you manage your throttle or your throttle curve set-up... Correct set-up of your throttle in the ESC and TX can make a huge difference to the smoothness and efficiency of your model.

Cheers,
Jason.
Hi Jason,
You may not be able to notice the drop off but you can take it that - it does happen.
The bigger the pack capacity to begin with the less it drops for any style or T curve etc.
Rhino 4900 are 1250g that's a 50g difference.
The IC guys have a 500g change during the flight and for the 2nd half of each flight they have a 500g to 300g weight moving 100mm approx !!.

Brian
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

Quote:

Hi Jason,
You may not be able to notice the drop off but you can take it that - it does happen.
The bigger the pack capacity to begin with the less it drops for any style or T curve etc.
Rhino 4900 are 1250g that's a 50g difference.
The IC guys have a 500g change during the flight and for the 2nd half of each flight they have a 500g to 300g weight moving 100mm approx !!.

Brian
Hi Brian,

Rhino packs are known for being heavy. My TP5000mAh packs are 1150 ready to fly and I have some F3A Unlimited packs which are only a little heavier.

Who cares about IC nowadays? Back when I had my Pinnacle, the tank was right on the CG so change in flight characteristics was minimal although power to weight ratio change could be felt as the fuel was used. The tank was changed to a 12 oz unit to reduce the flying weight. Also made some other changes and managed to take 250 grams out of that models static weight (without fuel). Vertical performance was greatly improved with these two changes.

I guess the main point is that we spend so much money assembling light models with lightweight components only to put a brick into it.... Just doesn't make sense to me. Everyone to their own though.

A lighter model will always fly better than a brick.

Regards,
Jason.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jason Arnold

Quote:

Hi Jason,
You may not be able to notice the drop off but you can take it that - it does happen.
The bigger the pack capacity to begin with the less it drops for any style or T curve etc.
Rhino 4900 are 1250g that's a 50g difference.
The IC guys have a 500g change during the flight and for the 2nd half of each flight they have a 500g to 300g weight moving 100mm approx !!.

Brian
Hi Brian,

Rhino packs are known for being heavy. My TP5000mAh packs are 1150 ready to fly and I have some F3A Unlimited packs which are only a little heavier.

Who cares about IC nowadays? Back when I had my Pinnacle, the tank was right on the CG so change in flight characteristics was minimal although power to weight ratio change could be felt as the fuel was used. The tank was changed to a 12 oz unit to reduce the flying weight. Also made some other changes and managed to take 250 grams out of that models static weight (without fuel). Vertical performance was greatly improved with these two changes.

I guess the main point is that we spend so much money assembling light models with lightweight components only to put a brick into it.... Just doesn't make sense to me. Everyone to their own though.

A lighter model will always fly better than a brick.

Regards,
Jason.

Jason,
Generally speaking the recent,last 7 or 8 years, evolution in F3A models has been to bigger fuz's for drag and knife edge and to smaller wings to increase wing loading.
Also E power and IC are flying the same designs,mostly.
There must be an optimum wing loading to suit most conditions.
These new models have a more balanced feel in rolls and in the loop/circle-roll combos.
Today's power plants put out 10kg+ static thrust.
Your 5000ah pack volt drop ,flight start to finish, is say 3.5 over an average of 38.5(no load).
That's a 9% drop in power.
These packs are say 120g heaver - that ,in Nialls case, increases his model from say 4850 to 4970.
That's an increase of 2.5%.
You say you don't notice a 9% power fall off yet you knock these packs due to a 2.5% weight increase.
Are you sure you have a valid argument ??

Brian
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:


Jason,
Generally speaking the recent,last 7 or 8 years, evolution in F3A models has been to bigger fuz's for drag and knife edge and to smaller wings to increase wing loading.
Also E power and IC are flying the same designs,mostly.
There must be an optimum wing loading to suit most conditions.
These new models have a more balanced feel in rolls and in the loop/circle-roll combos.
Today's power plants put out 10kg+ static thrust.
Your 5000ah pack volt drop ,flight start to finish, is say 3.5 over an average of 38.5(no load).
That's a 9% drop in power.
These packs are say 120g heaver - that ,in Nialls case, increases his model from say 4850 to 4970.
That's an increase of 2.5%.
You say you don't notice a 9% power fall off yet you knock these packs due to a 2.5% weight increase.
Are you sure you have a valid argument ??

Brian
Hi Brian,

I did say "everyone to their own"...

I'm not knocking the packs as such just the need for them in our specific application. This should be more of a concern with the contra drive set-up due to the inherent extra weight. It's kind of like fitting a bigger fuel cell to an F1 car... Does the extra run time offset the performance loss?

Do I have a valid argument? I guess we'll have to live with differing opinions on that one...

Cheers,
Jason.


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Old 08-30-2012, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

Jason,
You are missing a point.
The extra capacity also gives extra performance, relatively speaking, as the flight progresses - less % capacity used = less voltage drop !!
There is no trade off.
I suggest you think it through a little more.

Brian
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:25 PM
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ORIGINAL: serious power

Jason,
You are missing a point.
The extra capacity also gives extra performance, relatively speaking, as the flight progresses - less % capacity used = less voltage drop !!
There is no trade off.
I suggest you think it through a little more.

Brian
Hi Brian,

You're forgetting one important variable... The throttle stick. If we flew at full throttle all the time your argument would be true. In reality, we rarely use full power (if at all) so there is some headroom in the throttle stick which offsets the lower pack voltage.

Regards,
Jason.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

Hi Jason,
I'm sure the throttle will still work with this pack.

Brian
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:11 AM
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Hi ,
I just got a pair of these ; http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html
If you open the tab and wait a special offer will pop up at $92 for a 10s !!
So far all is good.
IR's compare with the upmarket packs - they are just the same.
Power was great - 3 flights on each so far.
They ran cool.
They are very neat to strap in.
With Emcotec 5.5mm light weight bullets and the leads cut back to 60mm they weigh 1155g and 1131g !!!
I was a little surprised at the weight so for knowledge reasons I pulled the lightest one down to 35.5V and then recharged it. (at $92 I had to check)
It took 5060mA to refill.
So the capacity is there.
Only time will tell - Winter is getting in here now though.

Brian

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Old 10-13-2012, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

I have 40 flights on a set of 5000 25c compacts and so far so good, they still produce good power flying the Advanced sequence. I now have three more sets with just a few flights on them and they all produce good power. If they hold up, this will be a good battery option for us. Weight is ranging between 1162 and 1190 using 4mm bullets and the original cable lengths. Hopefully the US Warehouse will start getting them in stock.

Rick
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:02 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .

That is good to hear.

I've been looking at the Zippy Compacts wondering if they're worth a try over standard Turnigy packs. Was wondering if the lower weight and size would have negative impacts to performance or longevity
But from the reports I'm hearing, I will pop a few in the cart next order since IR is good and they seem to be quite ok for lifespan .

So no negatives, just lighter packs
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:50 AM
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Hi,
I think it is a little early to make a call on lifespan - but the indicators are good.

Brian
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:38 AM
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ORIGINAL: serious power

Hi,
I think it is a little early to make a call on lifespan - but the indicators are good.

Brian
If the cost can be amortized down to $1USD per flight I am happy. Everything after that is gravy.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Ordered new batteries . . . we'll see . . .


Quote:
ORIGINAL: serious power

Jason,
You are missing a point.
The extra capacity also gives extra performance, relatively speaking, as the flight progresses - less % capacity used = less voltage drop !!
There is no trade off.
I suggest you think it through a little more.

Brian
There is another aspect here which you may want to consider consider, as Ihave discovered. A smaller battery means less overerall weigfht, which means less power consumed. Here is what I find:

I have a very light Angel's Shadow, with a 5000 mAH pack, weighs 4800g. With a 4000mAh pack it weighs 4600g. One masters seguence with the 5000 mAh pack consumes 3500 mA, but the same sequence with the 4000 pack, consumes omly 3000 mA, so the % capacity used for each of these packs is nearly the same, the voltage at the end of the flight, is nearly the same.

Irealize there could be other factors at play here, but Ilike the lighter pack and the way my plane performs with the reduced weight.

Your mileage may vary,

Dale

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Old 10-15-2012, 08:49 AM
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ORIGINAL: cmoulder

If the cost can be amortized down to $1USD per flight I am happy. Everything after that is gravy.

Consider that if a gallon of nitro is $25/gallon, give or take.
That's about 19.5 cents an ounce.
16 ounces of fuel will cost you about $3.12.
To use only $1 per flight in nitro you could only use about 5 ounces.

Kind of an interesting comparison.
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