Henning

Is the wing construction the same for the Griffin, Pegasus PHII and Shinden? I have a Pegasus PHII almost ready and don’t like what I read. I’m not looking forward to do my first knife edge with two snap rolls in opposite directions in the F-13 program with this model.



Regards,
Henning

MTK

I have zero doubt that Bryan's design is sound. I have some doubt that the execution of the design is per plan and Bryan's specification. At least on some pieces.

I will go over mine carefully as I said before and I will post what I find and what I do to reinforce. My plan was to get an electric light version and modify as necessary for gasoline. I didn't want the YS version since a two stroke gas enginedoesn't pound the airframe quite the same way or the degreeto which the YS does.

Henning

I had a look at the inside of my Pegasus PHII wings today. It can’t be the same wing construction as the Griffin. The main beam going through the wing is made of laminated balsa with fiber glass on each side. Infect the wing construction looks very well made. The aileron servo is located right over one of the frames so the forces are distributed to both wing skins.
I will add a plastic tape over the leading edge of both wings and stabs to prevent the possibility of separation of the skins. Several of the jet pilots do this to prevent separation.

Regards,
Henning

apereira

I can't imagine the frustration of having a new plane destroyed in the first flights, not even trimmed out and gone already. I hope I'll never experience that, ever.... Sorry for you guys.

VerneK

I have heard of composite wings from various manufacturers failing with them almost seeming to explode in flight. One theory I've heard is that any pinholes in the LE allows the wing to blow up like a balloon from the incoming air causing the skins to delaminate with catastrophic results. The tape on the LE would seal the pinholes and prevent that possibility.

Verne Koester

Chris Moon

My Feedback: (8)

Hey guys, we are in contact with Xtreme Composite about this issue and are waiting some feedback from the factory. The Griffin we have been flying for about a year now and hundreds of flights (and snaps) does differ in the internal wing structure from these that have failed. We were not aware that any changes had been made from the plane we were flying to the full production version.

The original Griffin wing structure looks like picture 1, the changed structure is in pic 2 and the wood parts are now a foam or foam laminate material. As soon as we hear from the factory, we will let everyone know what the situation is and what will be done next. If you have a wing like in pic2, we suggest not flying it until the factory has contacted us with a solution. We want a solution like everyone else and have tens of thousands of $$ invested in Griffin inventory so believe me nobody wants a solution more than we do.

JSchoolcraft

Huge props to F3A Unlimited for stepping up and taking care of their customers.   I'm a small business owner myself and know how costly something like this could be.  The fact that they are working with their customers the way they are speaks volumes for us consumers as to where to spend our money and feel confident with any purchases made with F3A!!

Chris Moon

My Feedback: (8)

The owner of X-Treme has asked me to personally extend his apologies to all customers who have had any problems with their Griffin wings and will make this matter right. X-Treme Composite says they will stand behind their F3A models.

The matter is going to be handled by X-Treme Composite as follows:

All current planes in US customers' hands will need to have their wings returned to us and new wings will be delivered by X-Treme for the planes as soon as available.
All current US stock will have their wings replaced with new wings before any more are sold
All verified crashed planes will need their damaged wings returned to us to fwd to the factory for inspection, then the planes will be replaced as soon as new wings are available.

All customers will be contacted individually as to what they need to do and what to expect from here. This is going to take some time to get resolved (not days or weeks) before all current owners are taken care of and all US stock has the replacement wings.

We just want you to know that X-Treme Composite has been very receptive to handling this matter as quickly as possible and does not know the source of the problem as they have tested the design and parts prior to using them in the production version. The reason for the failures will not be known for sure until we are able to return all of the Griffin wings to them for inspection. It could be a weakness in those parts of perhaps a glue adhesion issue or a design problem. None of this will be known until they have the wings ( both new and crashed ones) back for inspection.

Jeff Worsham

My Feedback: (28)

Absolutely AMAZING service!

silva916

plus 1

Gr Frank

pmjass

I have just received a new Griffin and have a couple of questions

The LG looks like I drill a hole and cut a slot at the inboard end. Is that correct?
Do I mount the incidence gadget in the tailplane centred on the centre line of the tailplane root rib?
Whats the easiest and most accurate way to figure out where to cut the exits in the fuz for the rudder cables?

Peter

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

When positioning the Robart Meter, was it on the bottom of the "V" or the bottom of the plastic base ? Also, can't quite read the rail setting you got - looks like a little past two degrees negative. Off course, that'll vary with the position of the fuse in the cradle.
Is the canopy rail the datum line ?
For others out there with a Griffin , please share your reference point and the incidence settings you have for wing and stab.

cyco

Just like to share some Griffin Pics in Gold Scheme right out of the factory:



looking really great now

ps. no Griffin, but actual Kit weight , just put a Galaxy PH from series production for a weight check when taking the photos:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...8989066&type=1
Pictures from Inside Factory work:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...8989066&type=1

And Of course, our main Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Xtrem...10688508989066


Kind Regards,

Chris
Xtremecomposite
chris(at)xtremecomposite

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

That galaxy looks very nice. I was talking to someone about the Hatta props (thank you for the prop sizes)on Facebook and saw it. Very nice!

Chris

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore...roducts_id=607
We have the replacement wiings for a few of the planes we had in stock.
Granted it took a longtime.
I've flown a Griffin the whole season and it's a proven to be an very good plane. Plus AC Glenn flew his to a top three finish in the US Nationals.
We can also offer anyone partial and complete building services so you receive a turnkey plane on any of our F3A Models.
By this time next week we will have an even more interesting option. Dave Snow is going to have lighter built up wings as an option.
They will cost $400 and be in a ARC state. We estimate that the savings in weight will be 6 ounces or more.
I'll have my new set and post a picture soon.
Thanks for your patience. Mike Mueller
FWIW we only have the White Griffins stock at this time.

F.Imbriaco

My Feedback: (56)

First two flights yesterday. Some pics

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

I hope all goes well Frank. I certainly love mine. Mike

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Guys the new composite replacement wings are working fine now.
We have the white version available again but the yellows with compsite wings are not yet available.
I'm also happy to announce the additional availability of built up light version Dave Snow wings.
The cost of the wings is $400 plus shipping by themselves. If you were to opt to have a new plane with a Snow wing it's an additional $250 but then you only get the Snow wing.
The Snow wings save a total of 6 ounces over the original versions but need to be covered and fit into the fuse. Dave took a lot of time and effort to get this step right and very easy to work with.
This option wll be listed on our site very soon.
It takes about 2 weeks upon order receipt to have the wings manufactured. If interested call in and we can give further details.
1 800 591 2875
Thanks and have a great day. Mike Mueller

serious power

Hi Mike,
What are the actual weights of the DS wing panels.

Brian

Dsnow

Brian I think they were 260 and 264 but I did not record them, I think they will vary from around 240 to 270 depending on the wood I have on hand. The panel that Mike provided to me for copying weighed 396 grams, I estimate the ready to fly weight of the built-up panels should be 13.5 oz or less (384 grams or less).

Dave Snow

serious power

Hi Dave,
Hope you are keeping well.
Thanks. I was wondering for reference purposes.
They look great.

Brian

pvogel

Just wanted to update folks. I received my new Griffin in September and with the wife out of town managed to finish it a little over a week ago. She maidened with Chris Moon in attendance in Livermore on 11/9 with 3 flights in a fairly stiff breeze and got 6 more flights this Saturday in milder conditions for the first 4 flights so got some trimming in. Minor dialing to the thrust line and a very slight increase in wing incidence and she's getting pretty close. Still a little more to do, but the wind started to whip up and make trim adjustments tough to discern. This Griffin now officially has more flights on her than my first one :-)

Many thanks to F3AUnlimited for working with X-treme to get them to do the right thing to replace the plane, for getting me a replacement as quickly as possible, and to Plettenberg for giving me a deal to replace the motor that was damaged beyond repair in the crash.

Further thanks to Jon C, Jon B, and Dale O for the trimming guidance & coaching!

Peter+

billdor

My Feedback: (11)

I am thinking of ordering a new Griffin
does anyone have a copy of the manual that they could share with me?

pvogel

There is no manual.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

There's this thread. The plane is very easy to build as it's almost complete. It's better than an ARF it's a RARF.
FWIW I'm down to 2 left. Mike