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Questions from first time pattern electric

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Old 09-12-2012, 05:59 AM
  #1
JIMMYTHEEAGLE
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Default Questions from first time pattern electric

I'm just about finished with my Vanquish 2M build which has to be one of the easiest ARF's that I've ever assembled. I used the Himax 6330 and phoenix ice 80.
So here are my questions:

I need a separate battery and regulator for my receiver and servos correct using the phoenix ice 80?

I know I wire my batteries in series.

I see armsafe connectors on websites. Are these normally used?

Which connectors between batteries, escapements and motors are easiest or more safe?

I've had many recommendations for battery chargers. Will the Hitec X4 charger work well for the 5S battery packs?

The only reason I like that charger is that it has a built in AC supply and since I fly right out my back yard it would be just easier to charge from a wall circuit. I also had recommendations for the Cellpro 10xp and buy a separate power supply.

Thanks for your help. Jim
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:25 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JIMMYTHEEAGLE

I'm just about finished with my Vanquish 2M build which has to be one of the easiest ARF's that I've ever assembled. I used the Himax 6330 and phoenix ice 80.
So here are my questions:

I need a separate battery and regulator for my receiver and servos correct using the phoenix ice 80?

I know I wire my batteries in series.

I see armsafe connectors on websites. Are these normally used?

Which connectors between batteries, escapements and motors are easiest or more safe?

I've had many recommendations for battery chargers. Will the Hitec X4 charger work well for the 5S battery packs?

The only reason I like that charger is that it has a built in AC supply and since I fly right out my back yard it would be just easier to charge from a wall circuit. I also had recommendations for the Cellpro 10xp and buy a separate power supply.

Thanks for your help. Jim
Yes, you need a separate battery pack to power the servos and receiver.

Yes you should wire two 5S packs in series to create a 10S pack with 37V nominal voltage.

If you are refering to THISor THIS, the it is highly recomended since it allows youto quickly disarm the system. It is used mostly for safety reasons.

Connectors you'll get different opinions. Som people like to use Deans other 4mm bullets, they both work. I personally use Anderson power poles since there is no soldering involved. If you go the Deans route the I sugest using real Deans and not the cheap chinese version. Between the ESC and motor you should use 4mm connectors or solder the wires directly.

The hitec charge will work but it may be a little bit slow. You may want to eventually get a more powerfull charger like the Cell Pro.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

+1 for Anderson power poles. Check out West Mountain Radio for APP stuff.

Get a robust charger such as Cellpro or Thunder Power and a 24 volt power supply for faster charging. Progressive RC is a good place to find these items.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

power lab 8 is a good one too
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Good charger, no doubt, but not ideal for 10S chharging.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:38 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

I can charge two 5s packs at a time in about 20 min. with it
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:21 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

With parallel charging, are individual cell voltages and IR's still available? My understanding (or perhaps misunderstanding?) is that they are not, which IMHO is not ideal because the individual IR's are the "best+quickest" indicator of pack health.

I try to remember to check the IR's at the end of each charge and on a few occasions have spotted failing cells before they had a chance to cause any problems.

Also, I fly two 5S packs wired in series to avoid the weight of a separate series harness, so separating them for charging would be a hassle.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:36 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Here is a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnldHRtjre8]video[/link] on how to solder bullet connectors. I use 4mm bullets for all my battery packs, the ESC and the motor.

Depending on what packs you are buying, 4mm or 5mm bullet connectors are pre-installed.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric


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ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

Here is a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnldHRtjre8]video[/link] on how to solder bullet connectors. My personal preference is 4mm bullet for all my battery packs, the ESC and the motor.

Depending on what packs you are buying, 4mm or 5mm bullet connectors are pre-installed.
This is good, however I'd like to see it done with 12 or 10 gauge wire! Not quite so easy.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:39 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

It can be done the same way with a a big soldering iron (e.g. 100W).

The wire tip has to be filed to shape first so it can go into the socket easily.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

yes you can monitor voltage when charging both
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jetmech43

yes you can monitor voltage when charging both
Individual cell voltage and IR's?
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

When I look at the cellpro, I have an option to buy with two GP/KO adapters or TP/PQ adapters. I thought I would probably try the Thunder power batteries or maybe the Rhino's.
Do I need either of these or maybe the better question is what do these two adapter plugs do?

And I've learned that I could build myself a serial harness and charge batteries individually or I could buy a 10s charger and wire my batteries together (in serial) and charge as one.

Thanks for the input. I'm slowly getting educated and looking forward to having another pattern plane to fly and getting back to some contests. My previous planes were YS powered and between dead sticks and dropping my plane in corn or bean fields I was getting tired of fixing minor landing repairs, vibration maintenance and figuring out the learning curve on a 4 stroke motor. I'm hoping the electric solves my dead stick challenges and keeps me out of the shop. My landing strip at my house is 70-80 yards long but I'm surrounded by fields on three sides. With the way these planes float, dead sticks can be challenging.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

I have both GP/KO and TP/PQ. I use mostly the GP adapter (for Rhino, Hobby King Nanotech, Sky Lipo) but have some batteries with TP and PQ balance taps, so they're very nice to have when they're needed.

The 10XP requires both balance taps and main battery leads in order to charge.

Some photos of my modular charging set-up that is housed in a Fat Max toolbox I got at Walmart. The top shelf is some particle board covered with Ultracote. The power supply is a Meanwell 43A/24v and the exhaust fan on the box is a 4-inch fan from Radio Shack.

The Sky LiPo 4400 or 5000 40C's from HobbyPartz have been excellent batteries. I have more than 50 charge cycles on 3 or 4 sets and the IR's remain well below 2 milliohms.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

http://www.progressiverc.com/fma-powerlab-8.html, this is what it will do.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Sorry, I thought you might know since you use it. Too much to look through!
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Since your charging in parallel you'll only see 5 cells, thus IR ratings for just the 5 cells. Each cell is in parallel with the other paks cell. I've always thought that IR readings were highly over rated in my opinion.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

My 10s charger displays the IR numbers as well voltages for each cell, in either 5cell or 10cell charging mode.

Because of the size of the display screen, the numbers are cycled. That is, the IR numbers for the 1st subset of the cells are displayed for a couple of seconds, followed by the IR numbers for the 2nd subset. The same is true for the voltages.

The IR numbers are good measure about the health of the pack. I found if one cell's IR is over 5mohms, the pack is pretty much not-competition-worthy.

I always charge in 10cell mode (or 2 pack in FMA terminology) to minimize the charging time. At 1C charging rate (i.e, 5A), It takes about 30-40 minutes to reach a full charge.

I use one 380W DC converter per 10s charger.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

I do know just thought it would be easier to see what it can do
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

I have a 10s too and the power lab is far better, just my opinion
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Yes it does show IR
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:36 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Bottom line is:

It does NOT show INDIVIDUAL cell IR's. When parallel charging, maybe it shows cumulative or average of 2 parallel cells? Or total pack IR? I don't know, but it doesn't show INDIVIDUAL CELL IR's.

It CANNOT series charge 10S packs.

This is why it is not ideal for electric 2-meter Pattern, which is virtually without exception a 10S world.

I am aware that the PL8 - combined with a good power source - can mash some serious mAh's, but that is only one criterion when choosing a charger.

The Cellpro 10S is not as fast because it is limited to 14v input, whereas the 10XP can handle up to 32v input. With a 24v power supply, recharges are quite fast. With 4 battery sets, it can charge them faster than I can fly them.

Not for nothing, there's an awful lot of 10XP's and 10S's at the field when you go to pattern meets.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:29 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Quote:
ORIGINAL: cmoulder

Bottom line is:

It does NOT show INDIVIDUAL cell IR's. When parallel charging, maybe it shows cumulative or average of 2 parallel cells? Or total pack IR? I don't know, but it doesn't show INDIVIDUAL CELL IR's.

It CANNOT series charge 10S packs.

This is why it is not ideal for electric 2-meter Pattern, which is virtually without exception a 10S world.

I am aware that the PL8 - combined with a good power source - can mash some serious mAh's, but that is only one criterion when choosing a charger.

The Cellpro 10S is not as fast because it is limited to 14v input, whereas the 10XP can handle up to 32v input. With a 24v power supply, recharges are quite fast. With 4 battery sets, it can charge them faster than I can fly them.

Not for nothing, there's an awful lot of 10XP's and 10S's at the field when you go to pattern meets.
Bob is right on the money with his comments.

I didn't see any comments about the connection between the batteries.....I cut a couple of basswood strips to use as a separarater, then use filament tape to hold the batteries together, then electrically connect them in series by using a automotive crimp connector that is first crimped and then soldered....then put on heatshrink.

Someone said they use power pole crimped connectors....these can generate a lot of heat and problems if the wires are not soldered...crimped connections will get slightly corroded just from being exposed to air and should be soldered in high current usage. I don't know anyone who uses them on a 10s 42 volt powered plane.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:29 AM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

It's not faster charging because of whether its 12 or 24V. Its the wattage each charger is rated at that makes it faster or slower. If you want to charge in series then the pl8 or 6 isn't for you. It wasn't designed to be used as a 10 cell charger.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: Questions from first time pattern electric

Not quite. It's the product of voltage x amperage that determines wattage. If you have more volts you need fewer amps.

A charger's wattage is simply a rating of its maximum output, but this determined entirely by the power supply Assuming you have a charger that can handle 24v input, it doesn't matter whether the power supply puts out 12v @ 40 amps or 24v @ 20 amps, the power output is 480 watts. But if you use an Iota PS @ 45 amps x 13.8v and a Meanwell @ 43 amps x 24v, the charge time is a LOT faster with the Meanwell.
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