Balance Discharge Rates
10-18-2012, 03:16 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Balance Discharge Rates
Gents,
I currently have a few different chargers that I use for my pattern and other batteries. I'm looking to expand my fleet with a 12S heli and now have a need to upgrade my chargers, of course I want a unit suitable for the std 10S packs (2x5S) we use as well as some 12S (2x6S) packs. My question is about the discharge rates that various chargers have through the balance leads, ie the rate of current (amps) that can be discharged through the balance leads while the batteries are being charged through the main leads. My current situation is this:
1. 2xCellpro 10S Chargers. Each chargers is limited to 360W and balance charges through the leads, I'm not sure if it actually discharges through the balance leads at all, can't see anything on the specification on this.
2. Hyperion Duo & DuoII Charger. Discharges up to 300ma through the balance leads, all the Hyperion chargers seem to be limited to 300ma per cell.
I would like to move to chargers with more output power to allow faster charge rates but also want to ensure that the balancers can discharge adequately, moreover if I am charging at faster rates.
So, below is my assessment of the various chargers I am looking at on the market, what I can't work out for the Thunder Power chargers I like the look of is much much current they can discharge through their discharge leads: (sorry about the table format below, I looks good when I post but crunches up all spaces when it posts)
Item Capacity Max Input Output Balancer Discharge Storage Mode Bty Defn Comments
Cellpro 10S 5Sx2 16V, 25A 250W (@15V), 10Ax2 None N N None Current field charger x 2, charges via individual cells up to 4A.
Cellpro 10XP 5Sx2 32V, 25A 645W (@32V), 15Ax2 1A/Cell 42W Y Yes
Hyperion 0610i 6Sx2 26V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell None N 10x2 Current home charger.
Hyperion 0610i Duo2 6Sx2 28V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 10x2 Current home charger.
Hyperion 0615i Duo3 6Sx2 29V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 20x2
Hyperion 720i 7Sx2 29V 1000W, 10A 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 20x2 Availability?
TP TP820CD 8Sx2 28V 800W, 20Ax2 ?A/cell 50Wx2 Y 24
TP TP1430C 14S 36V 1000W (@36V), 30A ?A/cell 100W Y 12
One other question is does anyone know a way to charge a 10S brick using the TP820CD, doesn't look like you can but it sure would be great if that were an option.
I currently have a few different chargers that I use for my pattern and other batteries. I'm looking to expand my fleet with a 12S heli and now have a need to upgrade my chargers, of course I want a unit suitable for the std 10S packs (2x5S) we use as well as some 12S (2x6S) packs. My question is about the discharge rates that various chargers have through the balance leads, ie the rate of current (amps) that can be discharged through the balance leads while the batteries are being charged through the main leads. My current situation is this:
1. 2xCellpro 10S Chargers. Each chargers is limited to 360W and balance charges through the leads, I'm not sure if it actually discharges through the balance leads at all, can't see anything on the specification on this.
2. Hyperion Duo & DuoII Charger. Discharges up to 300ma through the balance leads, all the Hyperion chargers seem to be limited to 300ma per cell.
I would like to move to chargers with more output power to allow faster charge rates but also want to ensure that the balancers can discharge adequately, moreover if I am charging at faster rates.
So, below is my assessment of the various chargers I am looking at on the market, what I can't work out for the Thunder Power chargers I like the look of is much much current they can discharge through their discharge leads: (sorry about the table format below, I looks good when I post but crunches up all spaces when it posts)
Item Capacity Max Input Output Balancer Discharge Storage Mode Bty Defn Comments
Cellpro 10S 5Sx2 16V, 25A 250W (@15V), 10Ax2 None N N None Current field charger x 2, charges via individual cells up to 4A.
Cellpro 10XP 5Sx2 32V, 25A 645W (@32V), 15Ax2 1A/Cell 42W Y Yes
Hyperion 0610i 6Sx2 26V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell None N 10x2 Current home charger.
Hyperion 0610i Duo2 6Sx2 28V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 10x2 Current home charger.
Hyperion 0615i Duo3 6Sx2 29V 180Wx2, 10Ax2 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 20x2
Hyperion 720i 7Sx2 29V 1000W, 10A 0.3A/cell 50Wx2 Y 20x2 Availability?
TP TP820CD 8Sx2 28V 800W, 20Ax2 ?A/cell 50Wx2 Y 24
TP TP1430C 14S 36V 1000W (@36V), 30A ?A/cell 100W Y 12
One other question is does anyone know a way to charge a 10S brick using the TP820CD, doesn't look like you can but it sure would be great if that were an option.
10-20-2012, 05:20 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
That is a serious beast!!
I would still love to know what rate the balancers can discharge on the TP units?
I assume from the lack of responses that there isn't a way to charge a 10S brick with the TP820CD?
I would still love to know what rate the balancers can discharge on the TP units?
I assume from the lack of responses that there isn't a way to charge a 10S brick with the TP820CD?
10-20-2012, 06:40 PM
#4
My Feedback: (27)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
Not designed for 10 cells. Haven't seen the 10S paks but would guess they have to be broken to 5 cell for shipping purposes. If that's the case they can be charged as 5S with the 8020. You just wouldn't be able to solder them together as 10S and you'd have to use seperate connectors.
10-20-2012, 08:05 PM
#5
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
Typically, 10S 'bricks' are a single pack (10S in series) but with 2 5S balancing leads. The packs are a little lighter that way but they can't be split into 2 5S configurations so the TP820 will not be able to charge them. I use a TP820 with my 5S packs and it works very well. Typically, I charge 2 5S packs in parallel on each side using parallel charging boards. Works great especially at 24+ volts input.
I really wish TP had made the TP820 as a 10S charger but all in all I am happy with it. Only firmware downside I have found is the IR measurements are pretty coarse, single digit mohm readouts. Not a problem on smaller packs where the cell IR is above 10 mohm but our 5000mah 25C packs are down in the 2-3 mohm range so single digits are not very useful. So far TP hasn't responded to requests from users to increase the resolution but no movement from TP. Basically, the TP820 is an orphaned product, no additional development for the firmware so what you get now is all you are going to get. They also did not deliver the PC software that was mentioned at product launch.
Like I said, I am happy with the TP820 performance, just think there were some things they could have done better.
Woodie
I really wish TP had made the TP820 as a 10S charger but all in all I am happy with it. Only firmware downside I have found is the IR measurements are pretty coarse, single digit mohm readouts. Not a problem on smaller packs where the cell IR is above 10 mohm but our 5000mah 25C packs are down in the 2-3 mohm range so single digits are not very useful. So far TP hasn't responded to requests from users to increase the resolution but no movement from TP. Basically, the TP820 is an orphaned product, no additional development for the firmware so what you get now is all you are going to get. They also did not deliver the PC software that was mentioned at product launch.
Like I said, I am happy with the TP820 performance, just think there were some things they could have done better.
Woodie
10-21-2012, 02:14 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
Thanks rm & woodie, it is as I thought re the 10S thing.
woodie, shame about the coarse IR figures, I get a higher on the Cellpro and Hyperion chargers albeit that the figures between the two do not correlate terribly well.
So woodie, aren't TP pursuing the due type charges moving forward from here?
woodie, shame about the coarse IR figures, I get a higher on the Cellpro and Hyperion chargers albeit that the figures between the two do not correlate terribly well.
So woodie, aren't TP pursuing the due type charges moving forward from here?
10-21-2012, 05:54 AM
#7
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
TP did come out with a TP1430 (14S capable) with a single charge port instead of dual port capability. I haven't used it so can't answer any performance questions.
The general movement from the developers/manufacturers seems to be higher input and output as the batteries continue to improve in the charge rate capability.
I usually take 3 batteries to the field. I can fly 4 flights pretty much back to back if I put the first battery flown on the charger immediately after flying it. I charge at 2C when I am doing that. By the time I fly the third flight and take a break, the first battery is charged. After that, I may or may not charge another. 4-5 focused flights in 1.5 hours is about my practical limit. More flights than that in a short period is not beneficial to me as far as practice is concerned, I loose focus/concentration. If I space the flights out more, I may fly more than 4-5 times.
As previously mentioned, iCharger is releasing a powerful 2 port charger later this year that is interesting tho it looks like you will need about 50V and 30A to drive it. That probably means a 220V power supply and the output power would be dramatically reduced at most flying fields if all they have is 120V available.
Woodie
The general movement from the developers/manufacturers seems to be higher input and output as the batteries continue to improve in the charge rate capability.
I usually take 3 batteries to the field. I can fly 4 flights pretty much back to back if I put the first battery flown on the charger immediately after flying it. I charge at 2C when I am doing that. By the time I fly the third flight and take a break, the first battery is charged. After that, I may or may not charge another. 4-5 focused flights in 1.5 hours is about my practical limit. More flights than that in a short period is not beneficial to me as far as practice is concerned, I loose focus/concentration. If I space the flights out more, I may fly more than 4-5 times.
As previously mentioned, iCharger is releasing a powerful 2 port charger later this year that is interesting tho it looks like you will need about 50V and 30A to drive it. That probably means a 220V power supply and the output power would be dramatically reduced at most flying fields if all they have is 120V available.
Woodie
10-21-2012, 06:45 AM
#8
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
Well from what I know, the FMA chargers are the only ones which use active balancing rather than discharging the high cells to match the lowest cell so you get more current to the low cell until it matches the others????
The 10XP chargers make a pretty good setup if run with at least a 24 volt input and can do the 10 cell pack setups whether a pair of series connected 5 cells or made that way. You'll have to make some concessions to doing 12 cell packs and charge 'em as a 6 cell pack as that's all the CellPro can do and it requires a balance board that's plugged into both balance board ports on the charger to do a 6 cell pack. However the price tag on the CellPro 10XP is pretty reasonable for what it'll do for you if you can feed it at higher voltages.
There are some pictures of the charging station I just put together using a pair of the 10XP chargers being fed by a 24 volt 40 amp power supply meant for pattern stuff in this post. It also requires a Honda generator.....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11251655
The 10XP chargers make a pretty good setup if run with at least a 24 volt input and can do the 10 cell pack setups whether a pair of series connected 5 cells or made that way. You'll have to make some concessions to doing 12 cell packs and charge 'em as a 6 cell pack as that's all the CellPro can do and it requires a balance board that's plugged into both balance board ports on the charger to do a 6 cell pack. However the price tag on the CellPro 10XP is pretty reasonable for what it'll do for you if you can feed it at higher voltages.
There are some pictures of the charging station I just put together using a pair of the 10XP chargers being fed by a 24 volt 40 amp power supply meant for pattern stuff in this post. It also requires a Honda generator.....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11251655
10-21-2012, 12:51 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
woodie, yes I have seen the TP1430 but want to also be able to charge two different packs at the same time.
Zeeb, the FMA 10S charges through the balance leads up to 4a (I think this is the right number) but I think (could be wrong here) that the 10XP has reverted to charging through the main leads and doesn't charge through the discharge leads, they have certainly taken away the option to not have the main leads connected when charging like you can with the 10S.
Zeeb, the FMA 10S charges through the balance leads up to 4a (I think this is the right number) but I think (could be wrong here) that the 10XP has reverted to charging through the main leads and doesn't charge through the discharge leads, they have certainly taken away the option to not have the main leads connected when charging like you can with the 10S.
10-21-2012, 02:47 PM
#10
My Feedback: (27)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
That's only an option for low rate chargers. The balance wire leads can't carry the juice being they're so small. You'll have a lot more options if you go to the 5S paks. 10S chargers aren't that plentiful. What's it matter how it balances, the results the same in the end.
10-21-2012, 06:23 PM
#11
My Feedback: (182)
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
TP820 does charge upto 16S (2 or 8S packs). Our 10S bricks have 2 balance plugs with bullets for cell 5 & 6 (split pack). it is like 2 of 5S packs.
the way to charge those split pack as 10S is in the manual. one output does half, the other output does half to get 10S pack charged.
the way to charge those split pack as 10S is in the manual. one output does half, the other output does half to get 10S pack charged.
10-21-2012, 06:27 PM
#12
My Feedback: (182)
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
ORIGINAL: woodie
TP did come out with a TP1430 (14S capable) with a single charge port instead of dual port capability. I haven't used it so can't answer any performance questions.
The general movement from the developers/manufacturers seems to be higher input and output as the batteries continue to improve in the charge rate capability.
I usually take 3 batteries to the field. I can fly 4 flights pretty much back to back if I put the first battery flown on the charger immediately after flying it. I charge at 2C when I am doing that. By the time I fly the third flight and take a break, the first battery is charged. After that, I may or may not charge another. 4-5 focused flights in 1.5 hours is about my practical limit. More flights than that in a short period is not beneficial to me as far as practice is concerned, I loose focus/concentration. If I space the flights out more, I may fly more than 4-5 times.
As previously mentioned, iCharger is releasing a powerful 2 port charger later this year that is interesting tho it looks like you will need about 50V and 30A to drive it. That probably means a 220V power supply and the output power would be dramatically reduced at most flying fields if all they have is 120V available.
Woodie
TP did come out with a TP1430 (14S capable) with a single charge port instead of dual port capability. I haven't used it so can't answer any performance questions.
The general movement from the developers/manufacturers seems to be higher input and output as the batteries continue to improve in the charge rate capability.
I usually take 3 batteries to the field. I can fly 4 flights pretty much back to back if I put the first battery flown on the charger immediately after flying it. I charge at 2C when I am doing that. By the time I fly the third flight and take a break, the first battery is charged. After that, I may or may not charge another. 4-5 focused flights in 1.5 hours is about my practical limit. More flights than that in a short period is not beneficial to me as far as practice is concerned, I loose focus/concentration. If I space the flights out more, I may fly more than 4-5 times.
As previously mentioned, iCharger is releasing a powerful 2 port charger later this year that is interesting tho it looks like you will need about 50V and 30A to drive it. That probably means a 220V power supply and the output power would be dramatically reduced at most flying fields if all they have is 120V available.
Woodie
which firmware version are you using?
TP is supposed to have a new batch of 820CD in a month that should have a lot of things sorted out. I just updated mine with 3.7, bu haven't charged any packs yet.
I am waiting for a new one.
Ihncheol
10-21-2012, 07:17 PM
#13
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
I believe it is 3.7 which is the latest firmware release for the earliest batch of TP820s. Basically, I am running the latest release software. The only difference in the 2 versions (3.7 and 3.9) of the latest firmware is the bootstrap loader. Functionality and machine interface are the same according to what TP told me.
Woodie
Woodie
10-22-2012, 11:08 PM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Warszawa, POLAND
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
http://www.elprog.com.pl/english/?st...&pstrona=02/00
Another beast. I use two Pulsar2 for many years. Once tested version 3. It's impressive.
Adam
Another beast. I use two Pulsar2 for many years. Once tested version 3. It's impressive.
Adam
10-23-2012, 02:46 AM
#17
My Feedback: (27)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Balance Discharge Rates
Charging has come a long way fast, still use my astro 109 for rx paks.
Might want to ck the icharger 3010B, it's a 10 cell charger @ 1000W. Reasonably priced.
Might want to ck the icharger 3010B, it's a 10 cell charger @ 1000W. Reasonably priced.
