Andy P.

Looking at the centre cabane, I'd say the shim is not actually making any change to the cg, if it were, wheres the shims for the struts?! The cabane looks as though it's got a flat surface so the shim is merely providing the profile of the bottom section of the wing, looks like a tooling issue to me, no biggie. I'd probably glue the shim to the under side of the wing and cover it with some Orange Tufflon rather than have it on show like that, probably even go so far as make a new profile support thats the width of the cabane and make it project all the way back to the trailing edge of the top wing and have it double up as the rear bolt support too, but that's just me, super picky on detail.

shannah

My Feedback: (5)

The cabane struts are already set for the updated incidence. The center shim adapts the bottom section of the wing so that it mates with the center pylon at the proper angle.

CW

Shannah, Andy P,
OK Understood -thanks for comments. I don't own a Biside- scratch building a biplane now, so my question was driven by curiosity rather than concern
CW

serious power

Hi Steve,
I should preface my post by saying that a few of us have been watching the progress on this for a few months. Now we are reluctant to order one as it just does not seem right.

Reason for my post ; I'm confused. Is this just a mod to help when carrying by the top wing - or - is it an incidence change (after all that successful testing)
Either way I'm not happy with the top wing mounting.

Brian

Jet Katt

I concur with Brian!! I was considering a purchase, but perhaps we should wait until all bugs have been corrected permanently, and someone places in the top 5, in one of the pattern classes with it, in the Nats. The BiSide looks great, but there is an uneasiness about it.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

The manufacturer that being Mr Park has informed us the top wing incidence has not been changed. The reason for the support is to aid carrying the plane.
This is the quote on F3AUnlimited.com
All planes include the wood and hardware for the top wing rear attachment mod. This mod was made to make the plane easier to pick up by the top wing alone and was not made due to any flight deficiency or structural strength issue in flight*** See pics below of detail
Here's the link.
BJ Craft Biside ARF - $2,500.00 : F3A Unlimited, A Webstore for the Serious F3A Competitor
Ya'll can get on and beat the beegeebeers out of a plane you have not seen and have not flown. I've had the pleasure of flying it and I have them in stock. This is a very high quality well designed plane that's very easy to fly and looks great. Everyone has an opinion but getting all over a new plane is rough on the industry.
We're very fortunate to have a manufacturer trying new things. Kill it before anyone trys it and we won't have anything new and cool like this.
This plane is clearly innovative. The mod is a very minor improvement. Mike

Andy P.

Mike, I totally concur with you, bashing a new airframe such as this without not even given it a try is just ridiculous. Sure, if the thing had fallen apart like some of the other junk around I could understand it, but it hasn't. Instead we have a few guys casting slurs on a product that has had hundreds of test flights without a hitch, go figure.....

All said and done, its a choice thing, all round, simple.

#keepemcominbj

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

It's just opinions Andy. I know the readers all make their own and choose based on it. Next time you post think about it for a second. Are you sure of what you are saying. Can you base it any facts?
Sorry if it frustrates me but we have tens of thousands invested in this deal and that would get anyone upset.
At F3AUnlimited we are very proud of the wonderful relationships we have with our manufactures like BJ Park from BJ Craft, Seba at Sebart and Yang at Oxai and Aun at Xtreme Composite.
We think they represent the best of the best. We strive to provide the F3A community with a myriad of offerings. Thanks, Mike

serious power

Hi Mike,
What was sorely needed ??

Brian

Andy P.

Mike, lets be clear about where Im at. I actually really like the BJ CRAFT products, they rock. Im not the one bashing here, Ive simply replied to a comment on the centre cabane arrangement and in doing so have stated what I would do if I were to put a BiSide together. Im not saying theres an issue with how its put together, Im actually very supportive of the 'fact' that BJ has undertaken the flight testing and respect that he is satisfied to the point of releasing the model for sale. Like you, I get frustrated, but reading a suggestion that as it is the top wing mounting method is unsatisfactory, without having handled or flown the model is simply crazy, how can anyone actually know? Simply making potential damaging statements based on nothing but opinion is unacceptable is beyond me, on the surface totally unfair. Still, that's my opinion, that I hope I'm entitled too, like the next man....

I'll just jump off my soap box and go fly and continue to enjoy my wonderful BJ Craft airframes in peace and quiet.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

A brace so you could carry it was sorely needed. Now we have them. Mike

shannah

My Feedback: (5)

I probably added fuel to the fire by assuming that there was an incidence change. I misunderstood BJ's description of the support. I look forward to getting on with the building and flying. I am really anxious to get this going. Now that I am back from Vacation I can start to focus on this.

Chris Moon

My Feedback: (8)

Ok time to jump in I guess. I have the only flying BiSide in the US and naturally more flights as well. I am in email contact with BJ Park constantly and the additional part for the rear is simply a convenience item and not a "fix" of any kind. the wedge piece is to keep the wing from rocking on the center cabane when you pick it up by the top wing and is not a change in incidence. At the NATS at least 10 people flew the plane and not one person said anything negative about it, not one. The plane come out at 4800grams with 5S-4500 Power unlimited batteries and Plettenberg Advance 30-10 motor. Speculation is fine but I'm sure if you ask anyone who has flown the BiSide they will give you their opinion and I'm certain it will be positive.

Chris

vquick

My Feedback: (71)

I flew the plane at the Nats and this plane fly beautiful I was really impressed with the plane I just order one should be in around Monday

Dansy

My Feedback: (53)

Doug post is gone so my question is irrelevant now ??????


Is it made just for you? Or an ARC?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

I removed the picture at BJ's request, but I can talk about it. He's just worried people will steal his design work which I can understand.

The airplane is being built custom for me. I wanted my own scheme on it, and more of a time saver than waiting for the ARC, then having someone here paint and cover it.

Dansy

My Feedback: (53)

Ya 300 is very good for custom color....thanks

serious power

Hi Mike,Chris,
I'm not just giving an opinion blindly.
I have flown bipes for 4 straight seasons.
I have had to replace/upgrade the top wing centre mounting on all of them. Two screws is hard to beat - it fixes the wing solid in two plains and the struts (which I also had to modify) fix it in the third.
Constructive criticism is just that.
Better early than late.
You guys give a great service (I tell more people that you may know) so I know you are aware of the phrase ; ' The customer is always right '

However I really think that top wing mount can be improved and easily - so why not ??
If it is/was moving while being carried by hand ,at 0mph and 1G what is going to happen at 75mph and 3 to 5G - the wing still carries the rest of it !??
Time will tell anyway I suppose.

Brian

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

The difference is where the force is being applied, Brian. When you pick up the airplane, the force is applied in one specific location. When the airplane is flying, the force is being applied at all attachment points, and the structural box created by the cabane, interplane, and bottom wing saddle create more than enough stability for the structure. That's not to say a second bolt is a bad idea, it just isn't necessary to handle in-flight loads.

Chris Moon

My Feedback: (8)

Hi Brian, We love our many customers from the Emerald Isle! I think we are actually on the same page as Mike and I both agreed when were were in Muncie that it would be safer to carry from the top wing if there was a separate support in the rear. BJ agrees with you as well and now includes these parts with the plane.

shannah

My Feedback: (5)

Hi guys,

I got a chance to squeeze in some build time. Things go together pretty quickly overall.

I decided to start with the flying stab installation. The setup consists of two CF tubes in the stab, one at the LE and one at about center (didn't actually measure it yet, but I may do that). There is a Carbon tube that is mounted in the fuse that forms the pivot for the center tube in the stab. The front tube is free to move up and down in the slots cut in the fuse. Here's a pic from BJ's website showing the tubes in the stab.


The control horn is installed such that it mates with internal bulkhead and the center CF tube. More on the installation of that later. Each stab half has a carbon tube socket for the mating of the LE and center tubes.

First, I trial fit the installation and noted that some of the paint overspray needed to be removed from the LE slot in the fuse I lightly sanded and filed it so that there was no interference.'


Next, I installed the stabs and bottom wing and checked the overall alignment. I saw that I needed to also remove a bit of overspray from one tube hole in the fuse so that the tube would fit squarely. A very light amount of fit sanding was required. Then, I fit the stab halves to the fuse to check the fit. I used the 6 spacers that he included for the LE tube. I put three spacers on each side of the LE tube. This allows some clearance between the fuse sides and the stab root so that you can tack glue the center tube in place. It also allows you to press the halves right up to the fuse and they clamp things in place so you can get a nice square fit. The spacers are removed after you get the center tube tacked in place.


Then I stuck the top wing on and checked things over. So far so good.

shannah

My Feedback: (5)

By the way, I like the new forum style. It is great to be able to put pics inline with text.

g_mkoch

Looks nice, one question though, the spacers are only to allow room to glue the center tube or do they have any other purpose?

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

They're only there until you tack glue the center tube. I guess I don't follow why you wouldn't just put the center tube in the fuse without all of the messing with the stabs. You can easily center everything without the stabs. I supposed you want the stabs there to verify everything is square, but I can't see much room to adjust it if it's wrong. Mind you, I don't have mine yet so hopefully Steve has more info here.

shannah

My Feedback: (5)

They are only there for tacking the center tube in place. I found it pretty useful in making sure everything was square before gluing in the tube. They allow you to press the stabs up all the way to the fuse and help to clamp things it place so the stab won't flop around. It gets pretty frustrating trying to hold the stab in place while you try to measure. Also, I wanted to verify things were lined up on the stab in addition to the tube when it was mounted and checked against the wing. These disks help in that alignment process. I did make a minor adjustment to my stab tube, I had to clean up some paint flash on the fuse holes and had to true it up just a hair so having a bunch of floating parts is tough when making a final alignment.