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Allure by Bryan Hebert

Old 07-24-2015, 10:56 AM
  #376  
bem
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Hi,
Congratulations to the 3 pilots that took place 1-3 at the NATS F3A competition, and the designer should be very proud of his Allure design!
The comments about the Allure seems mostly positive but I'm sure it is things still to improve on the plane.
Just curious, when next production run of Allure is made (when?) is there any improvments planned that can be revealed already?
I have not read really any negative comments about Allure (or maybe I have missed them) from pilots.
But it would be interesting to hear from pilots that fly Allure what, if any, negative behaviour or design/construction the plane has.
I'm sure there are some that can be nice to know about so all cards are on the table so to speak (the positive and the negative).

/Bo
Old 07-24-2015, 11:27 PM
  #377  
Jason Arnold
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Hi Guys,

The U.S. Nationals have of course been run and won. Congratulations to AC Glenn, Dave Lockhart and Chip Hyde. Allure's 1, 2, 3 and three different power systems as well.

Photo courtesy of Jim Quinn.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:40 PM
  #378  
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Hello

Please explain me why Shulman, Jesky , Wickizer did'nt participate ?
claude
Old 07-24-2015, 11:54 PM
  #379  
Jason Arnold
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Originally Posted by papaone
Hello

Please explain me why Shulman, Jesky , Wickizer did'nt participate ?
claude
Hey Claude,

It probably has something to do with preparing for the WC next month....

Cheers,
Jason.
Old 07-25-2015, 04:31 AM
  #380  
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Originally Posted by Jason Arnold
Hi Guys,

The U.S. Nationals have of course been run and won. Congratulations to AC Glenn, Dave Lockhart and Chip Hyde. Allure's 1, 2, 3 and three different power systems as well.

Photo courtesy of Jim Quinn.

Cheers,
Jason.
Hyde flying an Hebert plane?!! I spilt my coffee all over me this morning. LOL.....
Old 07-25-2015, 04:42 AM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by bem
Hi,
Congratulations to the 3 pilots that took place 1-3 at the NATS F3A competition, and the designer should be very proud of his Allure design!
The comments about the Allure seems mostly positive but I'm sure it is things still to improve on the plane.
Just curious, when next production run of Allure is made (when?) is there any improvments planned that can be revealed already?
I have not read really any negative comments about Allure (or maybe I have missed them) from pilots.
But it would be interesting to hear from pilots that fly Allure what, if any, negative behaviour or design/construction the plane has.
I'm sure there are some that can be nice to know about so all cards are on the table so to speak (the positive and the negative).

/Bo
The airplane (and their pilots) won the 3 top spots of the US F3A Nationals. What else do you need to know? It is a well conceived and well balanced design.

Kudos to Bryan and love the name BTW. You remembered, some 14 years later.
Old 07-25-2015, 06:35 AM
  #382  
bem
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Hi MattK,
Just curious that is all. No plane is perfect, but the Allure seems very good to say the least. As with most things it is pros and cons. It is just I have not read any cons really about the Allure. If there are no cons that can be reported, by pilots or designer, well that is fine with me. As I said, I'm just curious (and maybe others as well?).

I'm sure there will be Allure planes at the World Championships 2015 in Switzerland August 6-16. It will be interesting to see how well the pilots flying Allure there will place.

Anyone know what pilots at the WC that will use an Allure?
I assume the US team member Brett Wickizer will fly an Allure?


/Bo
Old 07-25-2015, 09:19 AM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by bem
Hi MattK,
Just curious that is all. No plane is perfect, but the Allure seems very good to say the least. As with most things it is pros and cons. It is just I have not read any cons really about the Allure. If there are no cons that can be reported, by pilots or designer, well that is fine with me. As I said, I'm just curious (and maybe others as well?).

I'm sure there will be Allure planes at the World Championships 2015 in Switzerland August 6-16. It will be interesting to see how well the pilots flying Allure there will place.

Anyone know what pilots at the WC that will use an Allure?
I assume the US team member Brett Wickizer will fly an Allure?


/Bo
As I pointed out in previous posts, you must fly the Allure to really appreciate its capabilities. Most of us guys in the lower classes (i.e. Advanced and Masters) are looking for a plane that is better than the pilot. If you look historically at the FAI Finals, some of the same pilots that won this year have flown with different planes in past FAI Nationals (this is verifiable, look it up). Even Chip Hyde who has his own designs competed and placed high with an Allure. Hmmm....that should put a question in one's head!! Bryan has spent over 20+ years constantly researching and experimenting, and the Allure is the culmination of his vast experiences. At the time, I personally don't believe that there is a design better. Some may come close,
Old 07-25-2015, 05:20 PM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by bem
Hi,
Congratulations to the 3 pilots that took place 1-3 at the NATS F3A competition, and the designer should be very proud of his Allure design!
The comments about the Allure seems mostly positive but I'm sure it is things still to improve on the plane.
Just curious, when next production run of Allure is made (when?) is there any improvments planned that can be revealed already?
I have not read really any negative comments about Allure (or maybe I have missed them) from pilots.
But it would be interesting to hear from pilots that fly Allure what, if any, negative behaviour or design/construction the plane has.
I'm sure there are some that can be nice to know about so all cards are on the table so to speak (the positive and the negative).

/Bo
Hi Bo,

What specific questions might you have? As of the conclusion of the US NATs, my Allure has 365 flights on it. In the last 150 flights, I have made minimal changes to it.

I can offer the following -

Bryan personally weighs and checks alignment on every part of each plane before it is shipped to customers. When you start with that level of QAQC, you are likely to get a solid product.

I have known Bryan for 20+ years, and talked with him many a time in detail about design and trimming. Do we agree on everything? Nope. But I have flown plenty of Bryan's planes, and never found his assessment of the flight qualities to be anything less than accurate and honest. While the Allure is his most recent offering, I would suggest it is not a "new" design per se. The Allure is the most recent refinement of a proven design, and it is targeted for the current day and 2017 F3A sequences. You will not be able to ask Bryan a question about the flying qualities or behavior of the Allure that he can not answer. Should he need to refer to it, his "black book" has copious notes of all the settings he has tried and the resulting flight characteristics. Bryan knows his designs inside and out, and knows what trim settings will affect the behavior of the plane in any maneuver. I don't think that type of a resource can be found with any other offering on the market today.

Is the Allure perfect? Maybe. It depends on your definition of perfect. I installed my motor to match the nosering thrust alignment exactly and I have not changed the wing incidence (it is fixed). I have experiemented with CG, and settled on 1/8" behind the wing tube.....which is right in the middle of the recommended CG range. My plane had a little bit of elevator trim, so I adjusted the stabs to eliminate the elevator trim. I experimented with control throws, and ended up with throws very similar to what Bryan recommends. I don't use flight conditions; I use individual rates. I fly the P and F 15 sequences on a single elevator, rudder, and elevator rate. On those rates, the plane has nothing other than a small downline mix. I switch to high rate rudder for stall turns and spins. I switch to high rate aileron for snaps. I switch to high rate elevator for spins. For the more demanding KE K6 unknown maneuvers, there is the smallest bit of coupling with the rudder, so I am using a curve mix that only activates near full rudder throw. Rud>ail and Rud>ele mix percentage max values are less than 2%, and keep in mind that only a small percentage of pilots will ever be doing KE K6 maneuvers in competition.

Several other pilots have flown my Allure. The only criticism they have had is that the rudder is very sensitive, and I acknowledge that my personal preference for many years has been to fly with a sensitive rudder. I use about the same amount of rudder input as elevator input in rolling maneuvers; it is a more balanced feel for me.
Old 07-26-2015, 07:47 AM
  #385  
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Hi DaveL322,
Great to read Your comments. It is valuable to me, and others I'm sure, that want to know more about Allure.

What perhaps is unique with Allure besides if flies very good, as I understand it, is the quality control at the factory (X-treme Composite) so the plane is actually made to the designer exact specification with instructions and tools from the designer, as said by the designer in one of the videos on his website (Bryan Interviews, Part 3).
Just to know that a good design is built straight etc and You can rely on that when it arrives to a buyer is worth a lot.
I also like that it has no small top wing or any other aid like wing or stab fences. A rather clean design.
And no or few mixes needed.

Some specific questions from me:
1) Can Allure be considerad a good plane for mid to high wind conditions, lets say from 7-10 or 11 meter per sec winds (16-25 mph)?
In my country it is often windy conditions so a plane that do not struggle in higher winds would be a plus. My present plane, a Sebart MythoS Pro, is not that good to cope with harder winds. I have flown in 11 meter per sek wind in competition and it was a strugle for both me and the plane. The predecessor, Sebart Wind S Pro, flies better in hard wind I saw myself at the competition where it was wind up to 11 m/s.
What wind conditions exists mostly where You practice with Your Allure?
2) Will it be any CG problem to have rudder servo in the tail or is it only meant to use the rudder servo tray with pull-pull wires?
3) Should flying without the wheelpants have any negative influence on the flight characteristics?

/Bo

Last edited by bem; 07-26-2015 at 08:29 AM.
Old 07-26-2015, 02:15 PM
  #386  
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Hi Dave,
Congratulations on your excellent Nationals performance!
How does the Allure compare to your previous 'ride' the Europa Pro LT? I enjoyed your FM articles and was sorry to see the magazine stop publishing. What factors led you to move on from 'Yuri' to the Allure?
Thanks for your insightful comments on the Allure. I completely agree with BEM regarding the lack of aerodynamic gadgetry in the Allure design.
Regards,
Will B.
Old 07-26-2015, 04:41 PM
  #387  
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Originally Posted by bem
Hi DaveL322,
Great to read Your comments. It is valuable to me, and others I'm sure, that want to know more about Allure.

What perhaps is unique with Allure besides if flies very good, as I understand it, is the quality control at the factory (X-treme Composite) so the plane is actually made to the designer exact specification with instructions and tools from the designer, as said by the designer in one of the videos on his website (Bryan Interviews, Part 3).
Just to know that a good design is built straight etc and You can rely on that when it arrives to a buyer is worth a lot.
I also like that it has no small top wing or any other aid like wing or stab fences. A rather clean design.
And no or few mixes needed.

Some specific questions from me:
1) Can Allure be considerad a good plane for mid to high wind conditions, lets say from 7-10 or 11 meter per sec winds (16-25 mph)?
In my country it is often windy conditions so a plane that do not struggle in higher winds would be a plus. My present plane, a Sebart MythoS Pro, is not that good to cope with harder winds. I have flown in 11 meter per sek wind in competition and it was a strugle for both me and the plane. The predecessor, Sebart Wind S Pro, flies better in hard wind I saw myself at the competition where it was wind up to 11 m/s.
What wind conditions exists mostly where You practice with Your Allure?
2) Will it be any CG problem to have rudder servo in the tail or is it only meant to use the rudder servo tray with pull-pull wires?
3) Should flying without the wheelpants have any negative influence on the flight characteristics?

/Bo
Hi Bo,

My opinions of course -
1) I would say yes. The Allure is quite happy across a wide range of speeds. At the recent US NATs, I was flying the F15 sequence at about 150 meters using the full height and width of the box, and from takeoff to exiting the box, my time was about 7:40. AC Glenn was flying very fast at 175 meters, I am not sure of his time. In the northeastern US where I am from, it is often quite windy in the spring time. I fly at several different fields....some have smooth consistent winds, and others are quite turbulent. I generally increase the flight speed a bit, and shift out to 160 meters in windy conditions, and flight time is reduced 10-15 seconds. I have not found a need to change the propellers for different conditions; the 22x20front and 21.5x20 rear allow good speed in wind while allowing enough braking (Castle brake at 30%) for calm conditions.
2) For my plane, I have the V3 Contra, light 1512-2Y Neu motor, light Castle Edge 80HV esc, and 1175g ThunderPower 5000s. Earlier in this thread you can see the motor lipos are mounted close to the landing gear plate, and I have the rudder, RX, and RX lipos very close to the wingtube. If I moved the rudder servo to the rear of the plane, I would need to move the motor lipos forward about 2", and I would have room to do this in my plane.
3) I have not flown the Allure without wheelpants, but based on my experience with other planes, I would not expect any problems. I would note that I fly from grass fields that are not perfect....some are bumpy, and another is very smooth, but it is a sod farm where the grass is very thick. I was able to squeeze 2.5" Dubro super light wheels into the Allure wheelpants and have not had any issues thus far. The plane looks much better with wheelpants
Old 07-26-2015, 04:50 PM
  #388  
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Hi Will,

Thanks!

The demise of FM was unfortunate indeed....it might return however....there is still hope.

The F3A sequences progress quite rapidly, and Yuri was not designed for the demands of the F15 and F17 sequences. Yuri remains a good plane for US AMA Masters or the P sequences and while it is possible to fly the F15 sequence, it is really pushing the limits of the plane in knife edge. The Allure has substantially more fuselage volume and is designed for the knife edge demands of the F sequences and the even more difficult K6 knife edge maneuvers from the unknown catalog.
Old 07-26-2015, 05:37 PM
  #389  
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Allure X-2
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Old 07-26-2015, 05:47 PM
  #390  
Jason Arnold
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Originally Posted by Jetpilot12
Allure X-2
For some reason, I don't think Bryan would approve... :-)

Cheers,
Jason.
Old 07-27-2015, 05:15 AM
  #391  
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What to do with an extra pair of stabs? Wouldn't want them going to waste
Old 07-30-2015, 07:15 AM
  #392  
bem
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Hi,

This I must say is an extraordinary service at a reasonable cost for the Allure:

"We’re offering a new service we’re dubbing the “Designer’s Touch”. Bryan will verify alignment and fit from the factory and then apply his current, personal settings to the airplane so that you have the most up to date and perfect setup available. It will cost $300 and be available at checkout on our main website."

Source:
http://www.ckaero.net/alluresx.php
http://www.ckaero.net/blog/2015/07/2...usa-nationals/
(about five sections down on that page)
http://www.ckaero.net/blog/2015/07/3...signers-touch/

I'm rather impressed what is offered to a potential buyer:
- Obviously a very well designed and thourouly tested plane.
- Obviously fly very good, in hands of good pilots like at the NATS.
- Available for glow/YS, electric traditional single prop and electric Contra dual prop system.
- In addition to standard color scheme it is offered colors swap and custom color scheme at reasonable cost as well as base white or base yellow at reduced cost.
- Even builders kit planned Q4 2015 according to designers webpage for those that want to do more themselves on the build.
http://www.ckaero.net/blog/2015/04/2...t-coming-soon/
- And now the new service "Designer’s Touch".

All above combined is probably rather unique?

One thing I find unclear at the designers website is the cost for Custom color scheme.
It is written "Custom schemes are $500 additional" but if you select "Custom Sheme" in the drop down on the website it is shown "Allure F3A Monoplane $ TBD + $750".
And I suppose the Shopping Cart for Allure at the website is not working since there is no "Add to Cart" possibility.

Some may think the plane look great, some may think it look not so great but what counts in the end for most I'm sure is the flight characteristics.

It will be very interesting to see how well Allure can do in the hands of pilots that fly it at the World Championship soon.
If anyone know for sure what pilot(s) will fly Allure at the WC please tell us.

/Bo

Last edited by bem; 07-30-2015 at 09:39 AM.
Old 07-30-2015, 08:10 AM
  #393  
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Hi Bo,

I Just posted an update on the blog going into a little more depth on the designer's touch. In addition, I've put up a little bit about the USA/Switzerland Flag scheme Allure I am flying in the World Championships. We're offering this scheme as part of our Signature Series you can read about in the post:

Designer's Touch: http://www.ckaero.net/blog/2015/07/3...signers-touch/
USA Allure (+Details and Pricing): http://www.ckaero.net/blog/2015/07/3...s-and-pricing/

I apologize for the pricing confusion on the website we will get that taken care of. Right now most if not all of the Allures coming in have been spoken for, that's why you can't "add to cart" right now, but the prices you see underneath the drop down boxes are accurate. I would encourage you email [email protected] as he has more information on inventory. Our plan is to have a new shipment every 3 months to meet demand but it may take a little bit for production to catch up.
Old 07-31-2015, 11:25 AM
  #394  
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All,

Sorry for the issue on the pricing of the Allure. I have fixed the website now to reflect the appropriate price. I have some work to do in the database for the website to get all the different product variables added but you should now be able to select the Version + Scheme + Designer's Touch and the appropriate price should be reflected.

Brett is correct in that I took the "Add to Cart" button off when the inventory is "zero". When Bryan has inventory, he'll tell me when to make the button active again.

Scott

Last edited by smcharg; 07-31-2015 at 12:47 PM.
Old 08-18-2015, 10:52 PM
  #395  
bem
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Hi,

How did Allure and it's pilot(s) place at the WC in Switzerland?
Brett Wickizer placed 14 according to semifinal result list but was it any more pilots using Allure and what was their place?

/Bo
Old 08-18-2015, 11:29 PM
  #396  
Jason Arnold
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Hi Guys,

Some builders kits are on their way to Australia and New Zealand. They have been pre-painted by the factory which costs a little extra but is worth it IMHO. The chin cowl EP version is 80 grams heavier than the conventional EP nose version. Overall, the weights look very good to me and when coupled with foam core flying surfaces should make for a light model.


Cheers,
Jason.

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Old 08-18-2015, 11:37 PM
  #397  
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Originally Posted by bem
Hi,

How did Allure and it's pilot(s) place at the WC in Switzerland?
Brett Wickizer placed 14 according to semifinal result list but was it any more pilots using Allure and what was their place?

/Bo
Hi Bo,

I believe the third placed junior from Germany was flying an Allure. Not sure of any others apart from Brett and Joseph although Joseph didn't compete with his Allure.

Cheers,
Jason.
Old 08-19-2015, 12:44 AM
  #398  
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Originally Posted by Jason Arnold
Hi Guys,

...The chin cowl EP version is 80 grams heavier than the conventional EP nose version.
Cheers,
Jason.
Hi,
Just curious - when could a EP (Electric) chin cowl version of Allure be prefered to the non chin EP version?
Easier access to motor (and ESC) is a good reason I suppose. Maybe better option when Contra drive (like Brenner or Adverrun) is used or OS Belt drive maybe?

/Bo

Last edited by bem; 08-19-2015 at 12:50 AM.
Old 08-19-2015, 01:09 AM
  #399  
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Originally Posted by Jason Arnold
Hi Bo,

I believe the third placed junior from Germany was flying an Allure. Not sure of any others apart from Brett and Joseph although Joseph didn't compete with his Allure.

Cheers,
Jason.
Hi,
Yes I saw at f3alorenz webshop that the junior Andre Bracht from Germany (3rd place in Junior class at WC) use an Allure.
Anyone know why the US junior Joseph Szczur (1st place in Junior class) did not compete with his Allure at the WC (maybe not trained so much with it yet?)?

/Bo
Old 08-19-2015, 01:37 AM
  #400  
bem
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Hi,

Brett Wickizer did not fly his Allure in the semifinal at the WC, but instead flew his biplane at the semifinal flights.
Why?

/Bo

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