OXAI no more ??
07-20-2016, 08:38 AM
#101
Senior Member
Pat, certainly........ I remember the first prop I ever molded back in the early 80's. Between the mold build and the prop casting I probably had 30 hours at least in the project excluding all of the searching for materials that worked.
Now after 3 decades of learning the right materials, release system etc., I can build, finish and balance a prop in about 20% the time the original took.... No different for them even with them cutting the kit first per Will's post. Repeatability makes you smarter, no?
07-21-2016, 06:00 AM
#102
High markup is everywhere in the world, I am surprised no one complains about Apple, as probably most people reading this own or have owned an iPhone (me included), and some probably even go out and get the new ones every time they are released.
iPhone 6s build cost ~$210, sells for $650, 300% markup and they sold around 10 million in the first weekend. Their build cost on phones has not gone up as fast as their sale price goes up, so as time passes the markup continues to increase. Even when they tried to bring in a "budget" phone in the 5C it was a failure, so that tells you the market is quite willing to pay the premium price to get the best of the best. This is absolutely no different than what Oxai is doing.
iPhone 6s build cost ~$210, sells for $650, 300% markup and they sold around 10 million in the first weekend. Their build cost on phones has not gone up as fast as their sale price goes up, so as time passes the markup continues to increase. Even when they tried to bring in a "budget" phone in the 5C it was a failure, so that tells you the market is quite willing to pay the premium price to get the best of the best. This is absolutely no different than what Oxai is doing.
07-21-2016, 09:41 PM
#104
My Feedback: (1)
Hi,
Maybe Oxai should have option to buy their planes covered with plastic film (wing and stab) and that way bring down the cost rather much since it seems the work (time) to paint their planes is a major part of the production cost?
Personally I would prefer plastic film covered wing and stab (including control surfaces and rudder). Plenty of colors to choose in for example Oracover (Ultracote in US) that should match most of the colorschemes Oxai use today. Then they can switch to Oracolor also to get more durable surface on painted parts compared to what they use today that is so fragile paint surface.
/Bo
Maybe Oxai should have option to buy their planes covered with plastic film (wing and stab) and that way bring down the cost rather much since it seems the work (time) to paint their planes is a major part of the production cost?
Personally I would prefer plastic film covered wing and stab (including control surfaces and rudder). Plenty of colors to choose in for example Oracover (Ultracote in US) that should match most of the colorschemes Oxai use today. Then they can switch to Oracolor also to get more durable surface on painted parts compared to what they use today that is so fragile paint surface.
/Bo
07-21-2016, 11:19 PM
#105
Hi,
Maybe Oxai should have option to buy their planes covered with plastic film (wing and stab) and that way bring down the cost rather much since it seems the work (time) to paint their planes is a major part of the production cost?
Personally I would prefer plastic film covered wing and stab (including control surfaces and rudder). Plenty of colors to choose in for example Oracover (Ultracote in US) that should match most of the colorschemes Oxai use today. Then they can switch to Oracolor also to get more durable surface on painted parts compared to what they use today that is so fragile paint surface.
/Bo
Maybe Oxai should have option to buy their planes covered with plastic film (wing and stab) and that way bring down the cost rather much since it seems the work (time) to paint their planes is a major part of the production cost?
Personally I would prefer plastic film covered wing and stab (including control surfaces and rudder). Plenty of colors to choose in for example Oracover (Ultracote in US) that should match most of the colorschemes Oxai use today. Then they can switch to Oracolor also to get more durable surface on painted parts compared to what they use today that is so fragile paint surface.
/Bo
07-21-2016, 11:23 PM
#106
High markup is everywhere in the world, I am surprised no one complains about Apple, as probably most people reading this own or have owned an iPhone (me included), and some probably even go out and get the new ones every time they are released.
iPhone 6s build cost ~$210, sells for $650, 300% markup and they sold around 10 million in the first weekend. Their build cost on phones has not gone up as fast as their sale price goes up, so as time passes the markup continues to increase. Even when they tried to bring in a "budget" phone in the 5C it was a failure, so that tells you the market is quite willing to pay the premium price to get the best of the best. This is absolutely no different than what Oxai is doing.
iPhone 6s build cost ~$210, sells for $650, 300% markup and they sold around 10 million in the first weekend. Their build cost on phones has not gone up as fast as their sale price goes up, so as time passes the markup continues to increase. Even when they tried to bring in a "budget" phone in the 5C it was a failure, so that tells you the market is quite willing to pay the premium price to get the best of the best. This is absolutely no different than what Oxai is doing.
07-22-2016, 04:24 PM
#111
Senior Member
Scott thanks for making the comment; it simply confirms what I've been saying......Six grand is a lot of mulla and is outrageous for a toy airplane
07-22-2016, 04:59 PM
#112
My Feedback: (1)
I have Sebart planes that is 6 years old and flown much with at an airfield with "tough" surface (grass field with sand under so You get blasts of sand on fuselage and stab when You start from the field). I have actually 5 Sebart planes and all have Oracover film on stab and wing (and some also on fuselage). When the planes arrived I spent several hours carefully iron on the plastic film so I could see it adhered to the balsa surface. I have not used an iron on any of the planes after such "treatment". It is just a matter of being careful with this and the film will not wrinkle later in sun etc (at least not for me).
And most important I get no destroyed surface on stab on film covered planes, You should have a look at my Oxai Galactika - not a pretty sight to see the stab. So for me at least a film covered stab and wing is prefered. It is also easier to repair if needed. And maybe it can be lighter then painted wing and stab? If Oxai had option to choose between painted wing and stab or film covered I would personally choose film covered.
/Bo
Last edited by bem; 07-22-2016 at 05:03 PM.
07-22-2016, 05:46 PM
#113
I love great wine. Even with my semi-annual travel to the Russian River Valley vineyards to get the best cases available I dont believe I have more than ten grand tied up in the last ten years. Hell, that's what, 1 1/2 Oxias?
Scott thanks for making the comment; it simply confirms what I've been saying......Six grand is a lot of mulla and is outrageous for a toy airplane
Scott thanks for making the comment; it simply confirms what I've been saying......Six grand is a lot of mulla and is outrageous for a toy airplane
These are not toy airplanes. They are sporting equipment and should be treated as such. And as with any sport, there is the top end equipment and the lower end. Just have to decide which end you want to go with.
07-23-2016, 10:10 PM
#115
Thread Starter
' Oxai has sold hundreds of planes, more than anyone, that to me speaks for it self..........'
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that, someplace sometime, a sheep said something like that to another sheep.
Millions bought VWs !!
Millions more will in the future - It's called marketing ! Been going on since the beginning of civilisation.
We need some 'not for profit' model suppliers
Brian
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that, someplace sometime, a sheep said something like that to another sheep.
Millions bought VWs !!
Millions more will in the future - It's called marketing ! Been going on since the beginning of civilisation.
We need some 'not for profit' model suppliers
Brian
07-23-2016, 10:15 PM
#116
' Oxai has sold hundreds of planes, more than anyone, that to me speaks for it self..........'
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that, someplace sometime, a sheep said something like that to another sheep.
Millions bought VWs !!
Millions more will in the future - It's called marketing ! Been going on since the beginning of civilisation.
We need some 'not for profit' model suppliers
Brian
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that, someplace sometime, a sheep said something like that to another sheep.
Millions bought VWs !!
Millions more will in the future - It's called marketing ! Been going on since the beginning of civilisation.
We need some 'not for profit' model suppliers
Brian
07-24-2016, 07:14 AM
#117
Senior Member
Seriously funny. I chuckle every time I re- read it.
As far as suppliers making a buck, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is a supplier fleecing the modelers, as noted in your first comment.
But Oxai is not to be fully blamed here....they are turning the biggest buck they can from modelers that allow it. And as long as there are modelers willing to pay through the nose, Oxai will continue the fleecing.....LOL....
To the couple that support Oxai's absurd pricing, I say go for it and pay through your nose. I couldn't care less. It is still bad for pattern...
07-25-2016, 12:28 AM
#119
The solution is easy really.
For those who don't want to pay that much for an Oxai, buy something else. There are alot of very good planes out there in varying price ranges.
Oxai are seen to be the Rolls Royce of patternships and have the Rolls Royce price tag. Whether they are worth the money or not, is up to you to decide.
For those who don't want to pay that much for an Oxai, buy something else. There are alot of very good planes out there in varying price ranges.
Oxai are seen to be the Rolls Royce of patternships and have the Rolls Royce price tag. Whether they are worth the money or not, is up to you to decide.
07-25-2016, 01:41 AM
#120
Thread Starter
Hi Scott,
Very true.
Oxai have a very good marketing/business strategy.
A lot of people like to have, or be seen to have, the latest and greatest. (Chads point)
Oxai tie a lot of these to their brand by aggressively seeking and doing deals with CPLR, Naruke, Matt etc.
They more or less stopped doing Own designs a few years ago.
The models 'designed' by a name do have a certain 'credibility'.
I have had a few and have worked on some for other people.
Though they have improved, a twist in a wing or something is still all to common and as Matt has said they are heavy - the 'customer' ones anyway.
As they moved from foam wings and tails - to composite - to built up, the consistency improved some.
Though in my view, at the price point, they should be better.
I think that many who pay the price are just too embarrassed to criticise their purchase publicly.
A guy here used the phrase ' A fur coat but no knickers' to describe them a few years ago. Again, they have improved some since.
Matts point re doing harm is valid.
- The OD home built stuff is disappearing as are the skills.
- Does having, or not having, the latest and greatest impact on Judge perception ?? An old marketing rule ; - ' Perception is reality !! '
On the other hand it is great that these choices are available - back to Scotts point !!
Brian
Very true.
Oxai have a very good marketing/business strategy.
A lot of people like to have, or be seen to have, the latest and greatest. (Chads point)
Oxai tie a lot of these to their brand by aggressively seeking and doing deals with CPLR, Naruke, Matt etc.
They more or less stopped doing Own designs a few years ago.
The models 'designed' by a name do have a certain 'credibility'.
I have had a few and have worked on some for other people.
Though they have improved, a twist in a wing or something is still all to common and as Matt has said they are heavy - the 'customer' ones anyway.
As they moved from foam wings and tails - to composite - to built up, the consistency improved some.
Though in my view, at the price point, they should be better.
I think that many who pay the price are just too embarrassed to criticise their purchase publicly.
A guy here used the phrase ' A fur coat but no knickers' to describe them a few years ago. Again, they have improved some since.
Matts point re doing harm is valid.
- The OD home built stuff is disappearing as are the skills.
- Does having, or not having, the latest and greatest impact on Judge perception ?? An old marketing rule ; - ' Perception is reality !! '
On the other hand it is great that these choices are available - back to Scotts point !!
Brian
07-25-2016, 03:24 AM
#121
Hi Scott,
Very true.
Oxai have a very good marketing/business strategy.
A lot of people like to have, or be seen to have, the latest and greatest. (Chads point)
Oxai tie a lot of these to their brand by aggressively seeking and doing deals with CPLR, Naruke, Matt etc.
They more or less stopped doing Own designs a few years ago.
The models 'designed' by a name do have a certain 'credibility'.
I have had a few and have worked on some for other people.
Though they have improved, a twist in a wing or something is still all to common and as Matt has said they are heavy - the 'customer' ones anyway.
As they moved from foam wings and tails - to composite - to built up, the consistency improved some.
Though in my view, at the price point, they should be better.
I think that many who pay the price are just too embarrassed to criticise their purchase publicly.
A guy here used the phrase ' A fur coat but no knickers' to describe them a few years ago. Again, they have improved some since.
Matts point re doing harm is valid.
- The OD home built stuff is disappearing as are the skills.
- Does having, or not having, the latest and greatest impact on Judge perception ?? An old marketing rule ; - ' Perception is reality !! '
On the other hand it is great that these choices are available - back to Scotts point !!
Brian
Very true.
Oxai have a very good marketing/business strategy.
A lot of people like to have, or be seen to have, the latest and greatest. (Chads point)
Oxai tie a lot of these to their brand by aggressively seeking and doing deals with CPLR, Naruke, Matt etc.
They more or less stopped doing Own designs a few years ago.
The models 'designed' by a name do have a certain 'credibility'.
I have had a few and have worked on some for other people.
Though they have improved, a twist in a wing or something is still all to common and as Matt has said they are heavy - the 'customer' ones anyway.
As they moved from foam wings and tails - to composite - to built up, the consistency improved some.
Though in my view, at the price point, they should be better.
I think that many who pay the price are just too embarrassed to criticise their purchase publicly.
A guy here used the phrase ' A fur coat but no knickers' to describe them a few years ago. Again, they have improved some since.
Matts point re doing harm is valid.
- The OD home built stuff is disappearing as are the skills.
- Does having, or not having, the latest and greatest impact on Judge perception ?? An old marketing rule ; - ' Perception is reality !! '
On the other hand it is great that these choices are available - back to Scotts point !!
Brian
07-25-2016, 06:13 AM
#123
Senior Member
The Rolls of pattern planes?? I don't think so. Just pigs with very nice lip stick?, yes, I'd agree.
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
You guys are right regarding other options. In fact there is one option that flies mix free and is a good looker out of the box. It may be the best monoplane flying today. And the designer is in constant communication with the factory to improve. I doubt that CPLR or Matt, with all due respect to this royalty of pattern, discuss manufacturing issues with Oxai.
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
You guys are right regarding other options. In fact there is one option that flies mix free and is a good looker out of the box. It may be the best monoplane flying today. And the designer is in constant communication with the factory to improve. I doubt that CPLR or Matt, with all due respect to this royalty of pattern, discuss manufacturing issues with Oxai.
07-25-2016, 11:05 AM
#124
My Feedback: (1)
The Rolls of pattern planes?? I don't think so. Just pigs with very nice lip stick?, yes, I'd agree.
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
Since I have an Oxai Galactika I can basically agree on Your words:
- come out of the box in pristine condition
Mine did not since it had a crack in the fuselage (it is reparied by me and I got a fair reduction in price from dealer so no problem really today for me)
- be lightweight not barely pass the limit
True, my Galactica is just at 5000 gram now (but I can rather easy make it at least 100 gram lighter if I start to lighten it according to my list I have made)
- fly without mixing
True, I have more mixing on my Galactika then I have on my MythoS Pro.
The goal must always be to have as few mixes as possible on F3A planes.
But I do not think it exist any completely mix free F3A planes yet - or tell me.
Personally I have tried to mention all things that is not so good on my Oxai machine, in my assembly thread here in this forum, and I do it so other people can see and evaluate quality of Oxai model. I would say I'm happy with my Oxai model in general but things can be improved for sure.
/Bo
Last edited by bem; 07-25-2016 at 11:12 AM.
07-25-2016, 11:26 AM
#125
I guess I got lucky,
My Acuracy was flawless, it look like it was made by Naruke, and I mean it since I met Naruke in the WC in Argentina(was starting then) so I know the quality first hand, so it could not be better, and the only mix I have (separate from the vertical down line) is 0.5% up ELE with LH Rudd, that , to me is almost if not 0 mix. On My Axiome and Axiome+ I do have mixes, but did not get the Galactik due to comments from my friends at the SA WC which I could not go, but their word to me was all I needed, so as Bem says, this comments are very important.
Another thing is, on the aircraft value, I had to pay every time $700 to $900 in shipping with DHL or Fedex, so even dealers needs to pay freight on special orders and still make profit.
There is always planes that will not sell, I do not know about the QQ Somenzini Oxai's but I am sure they sold only a handfull, the Amethyst is a completely different story......
My Acuracy was flawless, it look like it was made by Naruke, and I mean it since I met Naruke in the WC in Argentina(was starting then) so I know the quality first hand, so it could not be better, and the only mix I have (separate from the vertical down line) is 0.5% up ELE with LH Rudd, that , to me is almost if not 0 mix. On My Axiome and Axiome+ I do have mixes, but did not get the Galactik due to comments from my friends at the SA WC which I could not go, but their word to me was all I needed, so as Bem says, this comments are very important.
Another thing is, on the aircraft value, I had to pay every time $700 to $900 in shipping with DHL or Fedex, so even dealers needs to pay freight on special orders and still make profit.
There is always planes that will not sell, I do not know about the QQ Somenzini Oxai's but I am sure they sold only a handfull, the Amethyst is a completely different story......