OXAI no more ??
07-25-2016, 02:39 PM
#126
The Rolls of pattern planes?? I don't think so. Just pigs with very nice lip stick?, yes, I'd agree.
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
You guys are right regarding other options. In fact there is one option that flies mix free and is a good looker out of the box. It may be the best monoplane flying today. And the designer is in constant communication with the factory to improve. I doubt that CPLR or Matt, with all due respect to this royalty of pattern, discuss manufacturing issues with Oxai.
for them to be the Rolls of pattern, they need to come out of the box in pristine condition, be lightweight not barely pass the limit, and fly without mixing. Their marketing strategy tho is excellent.....
You guys are right regarding other options. In fact there is one option that flies mix free and is a good looker out of the box. It may be the best monoplane flying today. And the designer is in constant communication with the factory to improve. I doubt that CPLR or Matt, with all due respect to this royalty of pattern, discuss manufacturing issues with Oxai.
I think weight is the biggest problem. I haven't bought a plane yet that made weight out of the box. I've had to ditch much of the included hardware, including under carriage and spats and buy lighter parts to get them under 5kg. Even had to make new firewalls and landing gear mounts, because the supplied items were far too heavy. They should be providing a plane that will be under 5kg, using all the included gear.
With all the experience and resources available to them, there is no reason why they can't provide a light weight plane with light weight components.
After all, these are supposed to be top quality equipment, for top level competitors. As such, they should be built to meet all the requirements for top level competition.
07-25-2016, 05:43 PM
#127
We should also make clear Oxai produces F3A class planes, not in tended for AMA really, of course an F3A can perform any other class, but many cheaper options can not perform well on F3A properly, pretty much almost any plane can perform P's but not all can perform F's to be competitive.
And you are right Scott, there is always a choice, and probably more than ever, but this is going to the "beating the dead horse" again, like electric/YS, why getting a F18MZ, etc.....
Besides Bryan's Allure I will not know which moderately priced plane could be flown on all categories to be very competitive..... that is important for buyers getting a new plane, and the information here is really biased by personal opinion/interest lately and could easily get misdirected towards an inappropriate decision, that, to me is worst than Oxai price.
And you are right Scott, there is always a choice, and probably more than ever, but this is going to the "beating the dead horse" again, like electric/YS, why getting a F18MZ, etc.....
Besides Bryan's Allure I will not know which moderately priced plane could be flown on all categories to be very competitive..... that is important for buyers getting a new plane, and the information here is really biased by personal opinion/interest lately and could easily get misdirected towards an inappropriate decision, that, to me is worst than Oxai price.
07-25-2016, 06:24 PM
#128
We should also make clear Oxai produces F3A class planes, not in tended for AMA really, of course an F3A can perform any other class, but many cheaper options can not perform well on F3A properly, pretty much almost any plane can perform P's but not all can perform F's to be competitive.
And you are right Scott, there is always a choice, and probably more than ever, but this is going to the "beating the dead horse" again, like electric/YS, why getting a F18MZ, etc.....
Besides Bryan's Allure I will not know which moderately priced plane could be flown on all categories to be very competitive..... that is important for buyers getting a new plane, and the information here is really biased by personal opinion/interest lately and could easily get misdirected towards an inappropriate decision, that, to me is worst than Oxai price.
And you are right Scott, there is always a choice, and probably more than ever, but this is going to the "beating the dead horse" again, like electric/YS, why getting a F18MZ, etc.....
Besides Bryan's Allure I will not know which moderately priced plane could be flown on all categories to be very competitive..... that is important for buyers getting a new plane, and the information here is really biased by personal opinion/interest lately and could easily get misdirected towards an inappropriate decision, that, to me is worst than Oxai price.
07-25-2016, 06:42 PM
#129
But that depends on the equipment installed also, so there are variables not in control of manufacturers, and the planes are getting really big while maintainig the same weight, so it is also very complicated.
At the same time, I always ask for the arf weight before ordering, and Oxai has been pretty accurate on what I got, but I know the weight of all the components I use, on the other hand, if using the good stuff does not make weight, well that will be a different story, But I personally have not run into that so cannot guest what the manufacturer will do to help.
At the same time, I always ask for the arf weight before ordering, and Oxai has been pretty accurate on what I got, but I know the weight of all the components I use, on the other hand, if using the good stuff does not make weight, well that will be a different story, But I personally have not run into that so cannot guest what the manufacturer will do to help.
07-25-2016, 06:52 PM
#130
But that depends on the equipment installed also, so there are variables not in control of manufacturers, and the planes are getting really big while maintainig the same weight, so it is also very complicated.
At the same time, I always ask for the arf weight before ordering, and Oxai has been pretty accurate on what I got, but I know the weight of all the components I use, on the other hand, if using the good stuff does not make weight, well that will be a different story, But I personally have not run into that so cannot guest what the manufacturer will do to help.
At the same time, I always ask for the arf weight before ordering, and Oxai has been pretty accurate on what I got, but I know the weight of all the components I use, on the other hand, if using the good stuff does not make weight, well that will be a different story, But I personally have not run into that so cannot guest what the manufacturer will do to help.
So if someone buys cheaper products to keep the cost down, they do so at a weight penalty.
07-25-2016, 07:45 PM
#131
Senior Member
My blue printing technique for foam wings, stabs, rudder, takes time to prep, in the neighborhood of ten hours. I don't charge 1000$ extra for that service even though the result is superior to about anything flying today. But maybe I should since weights are so light yet stronger than most.
There are many ways to build superior parts and not have much extra time in at all. Canopies, chin cowls, landing gear and wheel pants, even hybrid gas/glow propellers and wheels, are a few examples.
BTW- there is nothing magical about a plane capable of F and Unknown F3A flight. There are several well conceived planes commercially available with that capability. But again, only one of them that is mix free. And its price is about half that of the Oxia planes. I don't know, maybe a couple of you are embarrassed by the fleecing.....
07-25-2016, 07:53 PM
#132
Hmmm!! ... Lighter parts (plenty strong and stiff for the job) generally have less material in them. Less material actually cost less, except The builder may or may not have more time in the parts.
My blue printing technique for foam wings, stabs, rudder, takes time to prep, in the neighborhood of ten hours. I don't charge 1000$ extra for that service even though the result is superior to about anything flying today. But maybe I should since weights are so light yet stronger than most.
There are many ways to build superior parts and not have much extra time in at all. Canopies, chin cowls, landing gear and wheel pants, even hybrid gas/glow propellers and wheels, are a few examples.
BTW- there is nothing magical about a plane capable of F and Unknown F3A flight. There are several well conceived planes commercially available with that capability. But again, only one of them that is mix free. And its price is about half that of the Oxia planes. I don't know, maybe a couple of you are embarrassed by the fleecing.....
My blue printing technique for foam wings, stabs, rudder, takes time to prep, in the neighborhood of ten hours. I don't charge 1000$ extra for that service even though the result is superior to about anything flying today. But maybe I should since weights are so light yet stronger than most.
There are many ways to build superior parts and not have much extra time in at all. Canopies, chin cowls, landing gear and wheel pants, even hybrid gas/glow propellers and wheels, are a few examples.
BTW- there is nothing magical about a plane capable of F and Unknown F3A flight. There are several well conceived planes commercially available with that capability. But again, only one of them that is mix free. And its price is about half that of the Oxia planes. I don't know, maybe a couple of you are embarrassed by the fleecing.....
07-25-2016, 11:56 PM
#133
Thread Starter
Hi,
The biggest issue weight wise, with these and some other commercial offerings, is the weight in the wings and tails.
The fuz's are now generally quite good weight wise but frequently lacking good structural integrity in the undercarriage area.
That is not to say the Fuz's cannot improve in the weight dept,, . Will be interesting to see how Rodneys fuz turns out. Among the best that I've seen here is Todd Schmitt's Mystic.
Really nice, strong/stiff and light.
As regards weight in wings and tails, well that feeds (excuse the pun) directly into the manoeuvres.
Matt and others, Ewan for eg, have shown us the way to go here.
Weight savings of between 80g and 125g for a single plug in mono wing panel. That's 200g to 300g in wings and tails per model.
Now add the benefit from those expensive weight saving parts - Getting on for 350g now.
A guy called Henry Piorun (who I don't know) replaced his Galactic wings saving over 110g/panel - 225g for both. Add Matts methodology to Henrys effort and there is a very substantial result to be had.
See;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...-2010-a-3.html Post #63
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...lactic&page=11 From post #165
The point is that these 'Rolls Royce' offerings should beat, not just match these simple one man efforts. (I say simple in the context of that what the glider guys get up to)
These RR offerings should have the best materials and good workmanship for the price.
They should also be able to employ methodologies that go far beyond those of the 'one man' efforts. A bit more F1 for me please and they can keep their RR's !!
Brian
The biggest issue weight wise, with these and some other commercial offerings, is the weight in the wings and tails.
The fuz's are now generally quite good weight wise but frequently lacking good structural integrity in the undercarriage area.
That is not to say the Fuz's cannot improve in the weight dept,, . Will be interesting to see how Rodneys fuz turns out. Among the best that I've seen here is Todd Schmitt's Mystic.
Really nice, strong/stiff and light.
As regards weight in wings and tails, well that feeds (excuse the pun) directly into the manoeuvres.
Matt and others, Ewan for eg, have shown us the way to go here.
Weight savings of between 80g and 125g for a single plug in mono wing panel. That's 200g to 300g in wings and tails per model.
Now add the benefit from those expensive weight saving parts - Getting on for 350g now.
A guy called Henry Piorun (who I don't know) replaced his Galactic wings saving over 110g/panel - 225g for both. Add Matts methodology to Henrys effort and there is a very substantial result to be had.
See;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...-2010-a-3.html Post #63
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...lactic&page=11 From post #165
The point is that these 'Rolls Royce' offerings should beat, not just match these simple one man efforts. (I say simple in the context of that what the glider guys get up to)
These RR offerings should have the best materials and good workmanship for the price.
They should also be able to employ methodologies that go far beyond those of the 'one man' efforts. A bit more F1 for me please and they can keep their RR's !!
Brian
Last edited by serious power; 07-26-2016 at 03:43 AM.
07-26-2016, 04:13 AM
#135
My Feedback: (1)
I can bring it down to 4900 myself with some effort but under that it will be very hard unless I change to less then 5000 mAh battery to save weight.
I hear some say 4500-4600 gram ready to fly F3A models would be nice but I do not know how to achieve that with 5000 mAh battery onboard.
/Bo
07-26-2016, 06:28 AM
#136
I ran the heaviest packs I had (1255g) at the Nats this year, just to get my Acuracy right up as close to 5050g as I could get :-) Derek said I was 5020g, and I was even thinking about adding another 30g just to make it heavier.
I have owned 5 Oxai models, two Axiome, a Citrin and two Acuracy's, and have not had an issue making weight with any of them using the parts from the kit. Nothing really special equipment wise, but I am careful about using overkill wiring, and don't run dual rx packs.
Expensive yep, but life's short so what the hell
I have owned 5 Oxai models, two Axiome, a Citrin and two Acuracy's, and have not had an issue making weight with any of them using the parts from the kit. Nothing really special equipment wise, but I am careful about using overkill wiring, and don't run dual rx packs.
Expensive yep, but life's short so what the hell
07-26-2016, 11:36 AM
#137
Thread Starter
At these prices;
Run a Brenner V3, carry 5800mAh/6000mAh (for F's & Unknowns) and make weight.
That is not the point though.
It is not about 'making weight'.
For optimum flight performance the wings and the tail end should be as light as possible.
The RR of commercially available models should be striving to optimise flight performance.
It is not rocket science - it's simple really - use good materials and employ good production QC !!
Brian
07-26-2016, 11:37 AM
#138
Senior Member
Brian,
That's my exact point.... "Best materials" will be an improvement but not without better technique. The one thing that you can't expect is innovation. Not every one can invent. Landing gear treatment is one area sorely lacking even though I have shown much lighter and stronger solutions in this area in various threads. Nat Penton invented an even lighter gear and installation than me, except, no pants. At 3 ounces his was 2/3rds the weight of mine, which included wheels and axles. Compare the gear weights Nat and I achieved to any other gear being used today.
Solutions are free of charge to you the modelers and to them the makers of the planes, but I accept royalties, LoL....
Bryan and I were talking recently about weighty issues. He said something that makes sense.... his designs are built by wage earners, not modelers. They don't have the luxury of pontificating over the removal of every last gram...... Well, we as modelers do, but not when some plunk down six grand for their toy plane and are not about to carve weight out. The expectation should be that weight carving has been done already
That's my exact point.... "Best materials" will be an improvement but not without better technique. The one thing that you can't expect is innovation. Not every one can invent. Landing gear treatment is one area sorely lacking even though I have shown much lighter and stronger solutions in this area in various threads. Nat Penton invented an even lighter gear and installation than me, except, no pants. At 3 ounces his was 2/3rds the weight of mine, which included wheels and axles. Compare the gear weights Nat and I achieved to any other gear being used today.
Solutions are free of charge to you the modelers and to them the makers of the planes, but I accept royalties, LoL....
Bryan and I were talking recently about weighty issues. He said something that makes sense.... his designs are built by wage earners, not modelers. They don't have the luxury of pontificating over the removal of every last gram...... Well, we as modelers do, but not when some plunk down six grand for their toy plane and are not about to carve weight out. The expectation should be that weight carving has been done already
Last edited by MTK; 07-26-2016 at 11:48 AM.
07-26-2016, 12:45 PM
#139
My four Oxai made weight with no problems, as Chad said, all of his, so 9, from my other friends in South America 3 more, 12, Spain 4 more, 16..
So 16 Oxai which easily made weight, so all this weight thing is coming from really noting but bashing.
And as I have asked except Chad, no one has paid those 6K said.
And less material = cheaper?
Wow, no further comment......
So 16 Oxai which easily made weight, so all this weight thing is coming from really noting but bashing.
And as I have asked except Chad, no one has paid those 6K said.
And less material = cheaper?
Wow, no further comment......
07-26-2016, 02:20 PM
#141
Thread Starter
Hi Matt,
As you know I'm in no way referring to Bryans stuff or the BJ offerings.
These are at a different price point and good if not very good at their respective pp's.
Bryans stuff looks great and your point re feedback to the factory is well noted, I have not had the pleasure personally - yet !!
A builders kit of his new bipe would be of great interest.
You are correct about technique - that, in part anyway, is what I meant by production QC.
Actually I think there is an opportunity in this for Bryan and others.
A deluxe version of their offerings using the slightly more exotic materials c/w tighter build controls/methods.
A $100 to $250 increase in material cost could yield a $500 to $1,000 premium as compared with a $6000 price tag.
Apereira ; My understanding from the earlier comments is that $6,000 is the new price. ($5,700 actually) Maybe you need to ask those buying the new stuff !!?? No bashing - just stating facts and expressing views re expectations/possibilities !! One would expect a radio as std,, in a Rolls Royce !??
Another fact; Oxai were happy to ditch their F3A customers a few months ago !!
There are $750, $1000, $1500 & $2000 offerings that make weight. Making weight is a very basic and fundamental requirement - more an assumption !!
Brian
As you know I'm in no way referring to Bryans stuff or the BJ offerings.
These are at a different price point and good if not very good at their respective pp's.
Bryans stuff looks great and your point re feedback to the factory is well noted, I have not had the pleasure personally - yet !!
A builders kit of his new bipe would be of great interest.
You are correct about technique - that, in part anyway, is what I meant by production QC.
Actually I think there is an opportunity in this for Bryan and others.
A deluxe version of their offerings using the slightly more exotic materials c/w tighter build controls/methods.
A $100 to $250 increase in material cost could yield a $500 to $1,000 premium as compared with a $6000 price tag.
Apereira ; My understanding from the earlier comments is that $6,000 is the new price. ($5,700 actually) Maybe you need to ask those buying the new stuff !!?? No bashing - just stating facts and expressing views re expectations/possibilities !! One would expect a radio as std,, in a Rolls Royce !??
Another fact; Oxai were happy to ditch their F3A customers a few months ago !!
There are $750, $1000, $1500 & $2000 offerings that make weight. Making weight is a very basic and fundamental requirement - more an assumption !!
Brian
Last edited by serious power; 07-26-2016 at 02:44 PM. Reason: addition
07-26-2016, 02:53 PM
#142
Hey Brian,
New price, I do not know about it, the latest model I bought was the Acuracy, and a friend got the Accent Bipe, so actually those are the latest, is there a new list price somewere?
But as I am in the Aeronautic Business I know how expensive a production line gets, it is a struggle with aircraft manufacturer's, I was for sure not happy with them closing when I was going to get an Accent, but I do respect their decision to dedicate their efforts to the full size.
I just got the wing of my Axiome+ damaged during transportation, it was insured, but I could not claim the insurance as there was not a replacement wing or plane, so not happy at all, but I will fix it, there are just four 2" holes in between ribs on the intradox, again, as you can see, I am one of those customers who does not have the support, but business wise I understand and accept the fact and their decision.
In turn it is an opportunity to finally get on a kit building as I wanted to go back to building again for a long time.
I understand, some planes are not perfect, but not all are, I do understand your point and respect it.
Cheers
New price, I do not know about it, the latest model I bought was the Acuracy, and a friend got the Accent Bipe, so actually those are the latest, is there a new list price somewere?
But as I am in the Aeronautic Business I know how expensive a production line gets, it is a struggle with aircraft manufacturer's, I was for sure not happy with them closing when I was going to get an Accent, but I do respect their decision to dedicate their efforts to the full size.
I just got the wing of my Axiome+ damaged during transportation, it was insured, but I could not claim the insurance as there was not a replacement wing or plane, so not happy at all, but I will fix it, there are just four 2" holes in between ribs on the intradox, again, as you can see, I am one of those customers who does not have the support, but business wise I understand and accept the fact and their decision.
In turn it is an opportunity to finally get on a kit building as I wanted to go back to building again for a long time.
I understand, some planes are not perfect, but not all are, I do understand your point and respect it.
Cheers
07-26-2016, 03:01 PM
#143
Thread Starter
07-26-2016, 03:39 PM
#144
For example, the new Verrari from Bryan and built by Tuny Pro, has some new materials, it is not fiberglass, it is called Terrafiber, is lighter and much more stronger, and that is an innovation.
07-26-2016, 06:32 PM
#148
My Feedback: (1)
Hi
The Verrari have retracts. Hurray!
http://www.precisionaeroproducts.com.au/81-verrari-bipe
I really like that.
/Bo
The Verrari have retracts. Hurray!
http://www.precisionaeroproducts.com.au/81-verrari-bipe
I really like that.
/Bo
Last edited by bem; 07-26-2016 at 06:36 PM.
