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Hacker Mezon Opt 95 ESC commutation error

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Old 05-12-2016, 08:18 PM
  #1  
nonstoprc
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Default Hacker Mezon Opt 95 ESC commutation error

Hi,

I recently experienced commutation errors with my Master Mezon Opt 95 ESC, with a Neu F3a motor. In the air, it seems the motor does not want to spin faster when the throttle is in the high range (from 2/3 to full). The prop is Falcon 21X14.

If checked with the Jeti box after the flight, the min/max log shows other wise normal readings except the status: letter M (commutation error). The M status is recorded in the ESC for 2 flights today.

The ESC settings are as follows.

Operation mode: normal
Acceleration: 0.58sec
Brake: begin power: 32%, end power: 54%, dead time 0.1 sec, speed 0.2 sec
Fixed throttle end points: 1.2ms low, 1.9ms high

Cut off voltage / cell: 3.0
Total cut off voltage 30v
Alarm Voltage: 5.0v
Temperature: 100 degree
Max current: 95A

Motor rotation: left
frequency: 8KHZ
Timing: 4 degree
Motor poles: 4
gear ratio: 1:6.7


Any people had similar experience before? Any easy fix?
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Old 06-17-2016, 03:26 PM
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Hi Nonstoprc

Where you able to find the cause of the problem, I recently had the same problem with a Mezon 95 cutting power during spool up. I went to check the esc and gave me error code M.
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Old 06-18-2016, 03:37 AM
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These are likely two different problems. With the Q80 motors (or any large out runner) the Mezon "Acceleration" time needs to be increased from the default. If not, upon rapid throttle opening, the motor speed will lag behind the ESC and a commutation error will occur resulting in a screech and motor stopping. A time of 1.1 - 1.5 sec. works. If too high the motor will accel too slowly, too low and it will stop upon rapid throttle opening. (Slowing the throttle opening at the TX with "servo speed" adjustment will work also.)

Sometimes settings that seem OK will toggle over to not with a prop change that increases load. The heavier or bigger (pitch / dia.) prop slows the motor accel to cause the problem. Best to check the accel with the rapid throttle opening trick on the ground whenever changing props.
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Old 06-18-2016, 05:30 AM
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Thanks Earl I will try to change the acc time on the esc. From what I can tell you describe what is going on, the problem never appeared until I used the 3 blade propeller while the 2 blade never gave an issue. Another thing that happened is that the crash was with a new TP battery with a 55C discharge, a lot higher that the regular 20-25C on my other batteries.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by EHFAI View Post
These are likely two different problems. With the Q80 motors (or any large out runner) the Mezon "Acceleration" time needs to be increased from the default. If not, upon rapid throttle opening, the motor speed will lag behind the ESC and a commutation error will occur resulting in a screech and motor stopping. A time of 1.1 - 1.5 sec. works. If too high the motor will accel too slowly, too low and it will stop upon rapid throttle opening. (Slowing the throttle opening at the TX with "servo speed" adjustment will work also.)

Sometimes settings that seem OK will toggle over to not with a prop change that increases load. The heavier or bigger (pitch / dia.) prop slows the motor accel to cause the problem. Best to check the accel with the rapid throttle opening trick on the ground whenever changing props.
Hi,
I have on my Master Mezon ESC's Acceleration 0-100% 0.50 s(sec)
I use that value on 3 Mezon's:
- In a Sebart Mythos 125E with Hacker A60-7XS and Falcon 19x12 V2 Electric carbon prop (35 grams), about 600 flights.
- In a Sebart MythoS Pro with Hacker Q80-14XS and Falcon 20.5x14.5 V2 Electric carbon prop (40 grams), about 700 flights.
- In an Oxai Galactica with with Hacker Q80-14XS and Falcon 21x14 V2 Electric carbon prop (41 grams), about 150 flights.

Never experienced any problem on rapid throttle opening.
But it is good to know that one need to watch up for this potential problem.

/Bo
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by g_mkoch View Post
Thanks Earl I will try to change the acc time on the esc. From what I can tell you describe what is going on, the problem never appeared until I used the 3 blade propeller while the 2 blade never gave an issue. Another thing that happened is that the crash was with a new TP battery with a 55C discharge, a lot higher that the regular 20-25C on my other batteries.
May I ask why 55c batteries in a 2m plane?
i would expect a 55c battery to be significantly heavier than a 25c for this application
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
May I ask why 55c batteries in a 2m plane?
i would expect a 55c battery to be significantly heavier than a 25c for this application
Mostly I wanted to try them. and Weight was still reasonable at 1300g

Originally Posted by bem View Post
Hi,
I have on my Master Mezon ESC's Acceleration 0-100% 0.50 s(sec)
I use that value on 3 Mezon's:
- In a Sebart Mythos 125E with Hacker A60-7XS and Falcon 19x12 V2 Electric carbon prop (35 grams), about 600 flights.
- In a Sebart MythoS Pro with Hacker Q80-14XS and Falcon 20.5x14.5 V2 Electric carbon prop (40 grams), about 700 flights.
- In an Oxai Galactica with with Hacker Q80-14XS and Falcon 21x14 V2 Electric carbon prop (41 grams), about 150 flights.

Never experienced any problem on rapid throttle opening.
But it is good to know that one need to watch up for this potential problem.

/Bo
That is interesting to know. I did some further testing on the bench yesterday and this are my results.
I tested two types of batteries, 25C 5800mah Zippy compact and 55C 5000mah TP along with 2 different propellers, Falcon 3 Blade 19.5X13 and Falcon 2 Blade 21X13.5

With the 3 blade and Zippy compact I could get to full throttle by going slowly on the stick but if I moved the throttle quickly I received a commutation error and the motor would shut off. Increasing the acceleration to 1.5s allowed me to quickly move the stick without having the motor shut off, however this did not hold true once I changed to the TP battery and the motor would shut off.

Changing to the 2 blade prop reduced the load and allowed me to quickly accelerate the throttle with the TP battery and 1.0 sec acceleration.

One thing to notice is that the problem never presented itself until recently when summer temperatures reached 95 F.

My conclusion is that the 3 blade prop with the higher load can cause the error since the motor cannot accelerate quickly enough, slowing the acceleration time is the only solution. Ambient temperature seems to play a roll since it never happened during cooler months.

I will try to do some testing on my pletteberg Advance see what results I get.

Last edited by g_mkoch; 06-19-2016 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:58 PM
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g_mkoch and Earl and all,

Thanks for sharing the experience.

I found that increasing the timing from 4 degree to 8 for my 1513 Neu motor can eliminate the commutation error. However, the motor seems running a little bit hot with the setting.

I also found that the same problem never happens with Jeti Spin 99 ESC, even at 97 F summer temperature.

Last edited by nonstoprc; 06-19-2016 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nonstoprc View Post
g_mkoch and Earl and all,
Thanks for sharing the experience.
I found that increasing the timing from 4 degree to 8 for my 1513 Neu motor can eliminate the commutation error. However, the motor seems running a little bit hot with the setting.
I also found that the same problem never happens with Jeti Spin 99 ESC, even at 97 F summer temperature.
It is interesting how this problem of the Mezon 95 with the Q80-14XS is now solved?
I have now the same problem!
I have a Hacker Q80-14XS with a 3 blade 20X13 and a Jeti Mezon 95 opto.(2 x TopFuel LiPo ECO-X 5S/5000 mAh, 20C).
My problem is that when the throttle spools up (60-70%) - the motor cuts off and I lose power.
I checked the Jeti box and gives error "M" which according to the manual is a commutation error.
Earlier I used MasterSPIN 99 Pro OPTO and the same motor - Hacker Outrunner Q80-14XS F3A. - in this combination, no problems whatsoever! With this motor everything worked perfectly well!
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:17 AM
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Five years later !
Important for F3A:
Hacker%20Regler%20Information.pdf
Attached Files

Last edited by aero07; 01-24-2019 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:44 AM
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Google Translation

Sounds like the Mezon controllers are overrated.

eason:
1. Mezon controllers are constructed differently than e.g. Master SPIN controller. Both
MEZON's only a few power transistors are used (with the MEZON 90
only 6 pieces!), which must carry the complete power load. With the SPIN 99
For example, many smaller MosFet's are installed over a larger area
are distributed to the heat sink. The heat dissipation is thus much better, the
Regulator has better "taker qualities". A MEZON 90 is therefore not comparable to
a SPIN 99.
2. The phase currents are significantly higher than the indicated current under load
in the regulator. A controller should therefore always designed as much as possible 20% -30% stronger
his.
3. MEZON lite controllers also have a smaller, shallower heat sink
than the normal MEZON controls. To make matters worse, this smaller
Heat sink also covered all around by the shrink tube of the regulator
becomes.
4. A reduction of the regulator opening in the transmitter brings no improvement, in
On the contrary, the controller gets even hotter during operation as it has to tack permanently
and never get fully involved. - Deadly in the summer for the regulator.
Please inform your customers about these things when buying. our recommendation
for F3A use is either a master MEZON 130 as a BEC controller, or
At least one master MEZON 115Opto, better a MEZON 135Opto in the
Optocoupler version. In these stronger controllers is then the Lite version
conceivable, although not optimal. With our F3A recommendations in the hacker shop
you will find no indication of the small Master MEZON controls.
The argument for higher weight or additional costs certainly does not apply. At the
Weight difference we speak of about 10Gramm, at the cost of a few
Euro. If a regulator that is too small burns down, the damage is even more costly.
Thanks for your support. With your help, we can safely make new outages in
reduce the F3A scene.
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