bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,

When using Wixey WR300 Type 1 angle meter (incidence meter) it does not display same angle if it is turned 180 degrees on a flat surface.

Example:


Here I have my Wixey WR300 Type 1 and it measure minus 0.6 degrees on the table (the arrow pointing down mean minus value, negative angle).



I turn same Wixey WR300 Type 1 that was used in above photo 180 degrees on the table on same spot. It show minus 0,2 degrees. In my opinion it should show minus 0.6 degrees also in that situation.

I do not get this.

Maybe it is this way the Wixey WR300 Type 1 works?

If You have a Wixey WR300 Type 1 - does it work the same way for You as above for me?

/Bo

flyncajun

Bo

If you dropped it, the metal case is warped, so the bottom is rocking and changing the value. If it moves at all on the base you can never measure the same value... replace it....

Bryan

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Bryan,

No I have never dropped my Wixey's (I have 3).
No the buttom is fine, it is not rocking.

I have three Wixey WR300 Type 1 that I bought from
http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/wixey-d...etic-base.html
Mine has not backlight LCD (that the cheaper and less axccurate Type 2 has) and it has the specification for Type 1, Resolution 0.1 degrees, Accuracy +/- 0.1 degrees as can bee seen on that hompage in above link. There is no marking on my Wixey's that say "WR300 Type 1" (I do not know if it should be that).

All my three Wixey WR300 (I assume Type 1) show same "problem" when I turn them 180 degrees on flat surface.
Maybe all three of them is defect then?
My nr 3 Wixey display 0.4 degrees difference compared to nr 1 and nr 2, so nr 3 is not used.

I have fund that my Wixey's do not look same as is shown on Wixey' homepage:

On Wixey homepage WR300 Type 1 is shown like this: (notice two magnets and black sides with black top-buttom)



My Mixey's: (notice silver metal on sides and top-buttom, and three magnets)



I have also a Xicoy CG & Angle meter with angle sensors and Ultimate Jets orange plastic holder for angle sensor.
http://www.xicoy.com/catalog/product...roducts_id=375
http://www.ultimate-jets.net/collect...-sensor-mounts

I use these adhesive squares to hold the angle sensor in the case and on measured surface:
http://www.prittworld.ca/en/consumer...ulti-tack.html
On my unit:



I have compared my Wixey's against:
a) "Xicoy CG & Angle meter" and
b) Hangar 9 Angle Pro digital inclinometer
http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...?ProdID=HAN193


Both a) and b) test gave different values compared to Wixley.
Exampe of measurments I made today:

a) Wixey and Xicoy:

From left:


From right (Xicoy display flickered between 89.8 and 89.9):


This show the problem that my Wixey can not display same degrees from left side and right side on the vertical metal bar, from left 91.5 degrees and from right 91.2 degrees.
It also show difference compared to Xicoy, about 1.7 degrees on left and 1.4 degrees on right side.


b) Wixey and Angle Pro:


From left:



From right:


This show for Wixey itself same angle values as a) above and on Angle Pro itself it is 0.2 degrees difference on right and left side. Wixey compared to Angle Pro on left side it is 0.7 degrees difference (91.5 - 90.8) and 0.6 degrees difference on right (91.2 - 90.6).

In both tests a) and b) the meters was set to zero on same spot on the table.
The metal bar I use is straight and I have measured it flat on a table and get same angles on it on center, 1/4, 3/4 and on the ends both with a Wixey angle meter and Xicoy angle meter.

Bryan, did You test TLL-90S (0.001° resolution, 0.005° accuracy)?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331536106382...ht_1830wt_1031


Until I have sorted out the Wixey problem I can not make any reliable incidence or motor trust measurments on my Oxai Galactika.
And I do not know if I can rely on Xicoy angle meter either (yet).

Comments?


/Bo

JerMilosek

Bo,

I too have noticed this inconsistency when the device is rotated. Its also present in my Hangar 9 devices, I have 2.

I also use a Smart Tool Level and its instructions contain a calibration method, see:


http://smarttoollevels.com/content/d...nual_93969.pdf


Are all 3 of your Wixey devices consistent with each other when placed on the same surface?


J e r

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi J e r,

So You measure wing and stab incidence, and motor down trust angle, with Your "SmartTool" angle device?
That calibration feature was nice on that device. I suppose it is rather heavy making it less suitable to measure stab incidence? How much does it weight?

I have three Wixey WR300 Type 1.
Two of them show same angle values in general, the nr 3 Wixey show 0.4 degrees difference compared to the other two so I do not use nr 3.

When I turn nr 1 and nr 2 Wixey the same way on a flat surface 180 degrees, just turn it, it is 0.4 degrees difference on both efter I have turned it 180 degrees.
So they show same difference in that situation.

For example when I measured on the table in my #1 post above both measured 0.6 degrees sitting flat on same spot on the table. Then I just turned them 180 degrees and both display 0.2 degrees. That is the problem on both nr 1 and nr 2 Wixey (nr 3 behave same if I place it on same spot, so it is not same angle value if I turn it 180 degees, but as I said it is another problem with nr 3 Wixey so I do not use it because of that).

If the TLL-90S was not so expensive I might get one to compare with (but then I can not know for sure it display correct, I probably need to buy two of them so I can compare them against each other). It is rather light, 182.5g / 6.4oz. My Wixey's weight 124 grams each.

/Bo

JerMilosek

Bo,

The Smart Tool is too heavy for R/C measurements but you can detach the instrument from the metal base. I use it in conjunction with a Pittsburgh Laser level purchased for $55 USD from Harbor Freight for home projects. The 48 inch complete unit weighs 1360 g.

If you know anyone in the construction or machine shop industry you might contact them and try to calibrate your Wixeys against their Smart Tool, there's also a cellphone app that enables it to be used as an inclinometer. I do not know of its accuracy.

I think we can still use these devices to set both stab sides to the same incidence for instance we just can't say its 0 degrees but we can say both sides are equal. My problem is getting repeatability. I think its due to the "Vee" brackets at each end of the bar.


J e r

SAB

Bo,

Is the 180 degree table test not just showing the table has a slope - you see a 0.4 degree difference so the table therefore has a 0.2 degree slope. Imagine the table had a very obvious slope of say 10 degrees, you put your wixey on & zero it, it shows 0 degrees, now rotate it 180 degrees & it will show a reading of 20 degrees.
On the thrust test, I think this is a linearity issue with the Wixey - you see a 0.3 degree difference or put another way +/- 0.15 degrees, not meeting the +/- 0.1 degree spec but not that far off either. The Wixey uses a pendulum & encoder mechanism. Your test uses different parts of the encoder (+90 & -90 degrees from centre) and I assume this is where the difference is coming from. Having said this the Wixey is Much better than the Robart analog meters !

Steve

Alex Voicu

I quickly checked my Wixey against the TLL-90S by measuring a few angles. Usually there's around 0.1 degrees difference between them or less, but in some cases this goes up to 0.2 degrees or even slightly more.

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Steve / SAB,

The slope is the same so it should not matter what way You turn a Wixey? The only difference will be plus (or minus) value when You measure from one side, then when You turn it 180 degrees it will show minus (or plus) value for angle.

Here is another test:

I set the Wixey to zero on this spot:


I measure with Wixey, display facing towards me:



I turn the Wixey 180 degrees so backside is facing me, and I have to see from other side what value it display:



I do the same prodecure with Hangar 8 Angle Pro, first set it to zero on same spot, then measure same angle with display facing towards me:


I turn Angle Pro 180 degrees, and I have to check from other side what the display show:



I test with Xicoy angle meter, the same way, first set zero on the same spot, then measure the angle:



I turn the Xicoy sensor 180 degrees and check what value the display show:



As You can see in the test the only angle meter of the three above that show same value, 14.5 degrees, regardless if I turn it 180 degrees is Xicoy angle meter sensor.
Wixey show worst difference in the test, difference is 0,7 degrees. Hangar 9 Angle Pro show a difference of 0.6 degrees in the test.

The test result should speak for itself.

An angle is an angle and it should not matter if you have the meter turned 180 degrees?

Alex Voicu:
Do TLL-90S show same angle in a similar test as above?

/Bo

SAB

Bo,

I believe the difference you see is because the Wixey only measures a relative angle (relative to what you set the zero as) whilst the Xicoy can measure an absolute angle (absolute to the earth). So the 14.8 degrees you measure is relative to to the table as measured in your 1st picture. The 14.1 degrees in the 3rd picture is, I assume, relative to the same "zero" The Xicoy on the other hand, if I read the instructions correctly, is relative to to an absolute zero (the earth) and so should give the same 2 readings rotated 180 degrees apart.
What would your measurements be with the wixey if you zero the meter on the table in the same orientation as the measurement - should be the same within 0.1 degree.

Steve

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Steve,
That would explain the difference. Thanks.
What is important when measure wing and stab incidence then with a Wixey is to not turn it when measure the opposite wing and stab. The display will not be so easy to read where it is facing towards the fuselage, but if one have a mirror or take a photo with the mobile it can be seen, if measure close to the wing and stab root.

Or Another way to solve it:
Zero the Wixey on the reference point You use, with the LCD towards You, then measure left wing and stab incidence (assuming You have set correct reference, datum line, before that). Then before You measure incidence on right wing and stab You go to same point as before and zero the Wixey but now with the LCD display facing the other side (so You turned it 180 degrees compared to before). Then go to right wing and stab measuring with Wixey and the LCD display is facing towards You so You can read it easily.
That should work and give correct angles - right?

I will test as You suggested Steve in Your last last sentence in Your #10 post above and come back with result.


/Bo

SAB

Bo,

Yes, do not turn the wixey when measuring the opposite wing or stab is the way to do it.

Steve

Alex Voicu

There might be a very small angle between the base of the casing and the sensor installed inside which influences the angle reading when the meter is rotated 180 degrees, but this doesn't mean the angle meter is faulty.
If you keep the meter facing the same direction all the readings should be good, and only the accuracy of the sensor comes into play.

If you turn the meter by 180 degrees, you will get a reading difference equal to twice the angle between the sensor inside and the base of the casing.

I will check the TLL-90S later this evening.

Stuart Chale

What Steve said should be your answer. To easily test you can 0 the meter while holding it at 5 degrees. measure something at about 10 degrees. One way should say 5 and the other should say 15.
Does the Wixey have a calibration procedure?
Here is another one on Ebay, only $70 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DXL360S-GYRO...3D331691513915

Any one try this one?

Alex Voicu

I checked and TLL-90S does the same thing when turned by 180 degrees.

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi sc204,
To the best of my knowledge a Wixey WR300 Type 1 can not be calibrated. At least it is not described in the instructions that came with the unit.

Nice find about the DXL360S Digital Protractor Inclinometer Dual Axis Level Box. Light, 120 grams, that is good. It say it has magnets in the corners. Not super expensive.

/Bo

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Alex,
Then TLL-90S has that advantage, great. It eliminate the possibility for user to forget the "180 degree rule" that one has to watch out for with a Wixey.
TLL-90S has better specification regarding accuracy also,
Are You satisfied with Your TLL-90S?

/Bo

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,
OK, I tested now with my two Wixey's that works.

It is as You said guys - if I zero it on a specific spot and have the Wixey LCD towards me and then measure an angle, then go back to same spot with LCD facing from me (turned 180 degrees) and zet zero and then measure same angle with LCD facing from me the Wixey show same angle in both situations. I repeated it with both my Wixey's.

Live and learn. This is valuable information to know for me. I could not have figured out this myself I think, at least it would have taken much longer time before I would have found out what I know now and one must watch out for (the 180 degree rotation procedure) with a Wixey WR300 Type 1.

/Bo

Alex Voicu

Sorry Bo, i think my message was confusing. I meant the TLL does the same thing as the Wixey (indicates a different value when turned 180 degrees). I think it's normal, the angle meter measures the angle to vertical the whole time; if you zero the meter on an angled surface it simply means the angle of that surface is subtracted from the following measurements. That's why you will get a different mesurement when you measure the same angle with the meter facing the opposite direction.

Yes i am very happy with the TLL-90S. I was able to get consistent measurements with it down to 1/100 degrees. As expected, the last digit (indicating 1/1000 degree) does wander a bit and you have to wait a little to get a stable reading.

It's a bit pricey though, so the new version of the DXL360 may be a good compromise regarding price/ accuracy. When i bought the TLL they only had the first version with 0.1 degrees precision and i wanted something more accurate.

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Alex,
OK, it is clear now how TLL-90S behave, thanks for clarification.

DXL360S seems on paper to be a digital angle meter that would suite our purpose to measure wing and stab incidences, and motor trust angle. Who will be the first to try one?

/Bo

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I use the Wixey WR365. It has two angle readings. One permanent setting that is preset relative to the earth and the other can be zeroed so there is no real need to set the datum to dead level.
So far it has read zero and zero when turned 180 degrees.

Jason Arnold

Hi Bem,

I just tried my Wixey WR300 and upon rotating 180 degrees it still reads the same on a flat surface. On a sloped surface, the error seen was 0.1 degrees. That is acceptable to me.

When making measurements on a model, I deliberately have the meter and clamps all facing the same way. This reduces the chance of error. Seeing over the fin can sometimes be a challenge on the stabs but it is workable. The WR365 has an advantage here with its tilt screen...

If, you've not already done it, try removing th batteries from your Wixey and repeat the tests. Also, it the batteries are getting low results could be questionable.

I also have the WR365 which can be calibrated. Found this out after dropping it.... I like the WR300 better though as it seems more repeatable. Both are good though and have their pros and cons.

Cheers,
Jason.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I've had no issues with 365 not being repeatable.

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Jason,
What You wrote is exactly what is important to do when using Wixey WR300 Type 1 (and with the clamp-bar).
I have made arrows on my Robart clamp-bar so I'm reminded that they must point forward both on right and left wing/stab incidence measurments.

/Bo

Anthony-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

Another reason to always measure the same way is I have found the clamps are not always symmetrical. Mine has about 1/32" difference front to back because the v-blocks are not exactly even.