Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

Comparison of Brenner V4 Contra and Adverrun XS

Reply

Old 05-16-2019, 05:12 AM
  #1  
krzy4rc
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
krzy4rc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 70
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Comparison of Brenner V4 Contra and Adverrun XS

I know this is risky and could turn into a mess, but I am really interested in try to see if anyone has direct experience with both drives and has any opinions.

With my research I have the following that seem to be true...

V4 Contra Drive Drive
Maintenance: Inject Grease every 200 flights (do not need to disassemble)
Current drawn with 22"x22/22"x20 props ~70 amps
ESC 90 amp
Soft mounted

Adverrun XS Contra Drive
Maintenance: Grease every 50 flights (disassembly required)
Current drawn with 22"x22/22"x20 props - 90-120 amps
ESC 150 amp
soft mounted.

This is mostly gathered from websites/marketing and contra threads.

Anybody have anything else or corrections based on their direct knowledge?

My goal is to select the drive for my new Alchemy. I fly intermediate, with plans to try to get to Masters in the next 2-3 years....pending my dumb thumbs!

Thanks.

Rich
Krzy4RC
krzy4rc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 05:49 AM
  #2  
krzy4rc
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
krzy4rc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 70
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Some follow-ups from some more reading...

Adverrun - Does it really require greasing - some posts indicate it may not
Adverrun - Any results with people running Jeti Mezon 90 (seems undersized)

Thanks.
krzy4rc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 06:20 AM
  #3  
flyintexan
My Feedback: (1)
 
flyintexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: tomball, TX
Posts: 1,199
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Rich,

I will be at the Ramah contest this weekend with my Adverrun and I think there will be a V4 drive there as well.

-mark
flyintexan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 07:05 AM
  #4  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 370
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by flyintexan View Post
Rich,

I will be at the Ramah contest this weekend with my Adverrun and I think there will be a V4 drive there as well.

-mark
At least one... I know folks that have both. There are pro's and con's on both, but they are subtle. Watch them both fly and talk to the pilots and get their impressions. The V4 is load sharing, the Adverrun is not. The Adverrun is quieter, but IMO the V4 is a bit more refined in power application. The Adverrun's motor hangs low, gets better cooling. My V4 motor, which is inline with the spinner, barely gets warm.

Last edited by big_G; 05-16-2019 at 07:11 AM.
big_G is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 07:14 AM
  #5  
krzy4rc
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
 
krzy4rc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 70
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thank you for the reply guys. Looking forward to chatting about them in Ramah. I will be setting my trailer to night and maybe a couple of flights and be out there all day tomorrow.

Learning about something different really gets my juices going!
krzy4rc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 07:18 AM
  #6  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 370
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I should be pulling in around 2.
big_G is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2019, 07:06 PM
  #7  
vbortone
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 646
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by big_G View Post
At least one... I know folks that have both. There are pro's and con's on both, but they are subtle. Watch them both fly and talk to the pilots and get their impressions. The V4 is load sharing, the Adverrun is not. The Adverrun is quieter, but IMO the V4 is a bit more refined in power application. The Adverrun's motor hangs low, gets better cooling. My V4 motor, which is inline with the spinner, barely gets warm.
At the Nats finals 2 years back mine V-4 passed the noise test. If I remember correct, one of the Adverruns was marginal using the same equipment in same conditions. Therefore, based on this experience the V-4 was quieter on the ground. This was before the lapped gears improvement. I know that in the air the perception is that the V-4 is not as quiet. I sincerely hope that mine gets verified again at the Nats this year.

Last edited by vbortone; 05-18-2019 at 07:08 PM.
vbortone is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 04:26 AM
  #8  
ltc
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mendon, MA
Posts: 1,064
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

IIRC, Adverrun changed to helical gears in part due to noise. I think they also sell a retrofit kit for straight cut to helical gears for early drive units. Mike at F3AUnlimited would know...
ltc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2019, 10:10 PM
  #9  
SchiBru
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eppelborn, GERMANY
Posts: 105
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hello Rich,
I've been flying the Adverrun in more than 1200 flights for 4 years now and am absolutely convinced of it.
(In the meantime is the Adverrun also the choice of the WC-Champion and conquers Japan ....)
The drive runs absolutely cold with the Kontronik; This allows training flights even at over 30 degrees outside temperature without any break (only necessary for the pilot ....)
My power consumption is with the Alchemy, battery Hacker Eco X 4600 mAh, Props Falcon 22 x20 / 22x22 in the P 19 (even in storm with wind around the 45 km / h) never over 3200 mAh and in F 19 never over 3800 mAh) and I fly "European" big and use the 8 minutes!
Once I had to extend and maintain an Adverrun after more than 500 flights (!!); the front bearing was knocked out. Otherwise only fly, fly, .... and no maintenance!
For more than a year I fly the new lapped gear-version; which has a really very pleasant noice and such an enormous power, that I have the possible max. power even throttled.
This always gives me the feeling of having enough power, even with " unflyable " wind.
A disadvantage of the rigidly "connected" two props I really could not find in practice. Since you heard at the beginning of all sorts of concerns ......
All "rumors" that I think come from people who have not flown Adverrun or represent any other interests.
As ESC, I fly light the Sinus ESC by Adam Debowski with very good results, but the Hacker Mezon 90 is also a very good choice and is always enough. (Hackers only gives the recommendation in combination with the Q 80 to take a Mezon 130 ...).
Because I am convinced, there is no alternative for me:
The Alchemy and the Adverrun are a dream combo!

best regards
Bruno Schiffler /Germany




SchiBru is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2019, 01:29 AM
  #10  
willyuk
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 53
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have alos been using Adverrun. Initially one of the early units with straight cut gears and recently I bought the upgrade kit and installed it. I could not be happier with this unt. The latest version is very quiet and has lots of power. It does not require routine mainenance but a check of the bearings and condition of the belt is good practse after a few hundred fligts. I think the main difference between it and the Brenner in terms of how it performs is that the adverrun has the props fixed in relation to each other whilst the Brenner is geared so that the props can rotate at different speeds. I expect this would make a fifference in how it feels to fly. I have never been lucky enough to try both.
willyuk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 04:49 PM
  #11  
TonyF
My Feedback: (92)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rosamond, CA
Posts: 2,089
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have only owned Contra drives. First the V.1, all the iterations through V.3 and now V.4's. I have flown the Adverun and built installations for two models using them. I haven't flown the Adverun extensively but I think enough to form an opinion.

The V.3 and V.4 with the way it transmits power flies truer through all power settings. I have seen the Adverun have minor issues through the entire power range. This, IMO is because the props are basically locked together, not allowed to run at different RPM's like the Contra. I don't think there is a way out of that, it's just the nature of the designs.

A V.4 with a 600 motor makes more power, especially with the 23" props on it. I have suggested to the Adverun owners that I fly with that they should try the 23" props but to date none have done that. I use the 650 motor on my V.4. It gives me all the power I need and while slightly heavier it runs much cooler. The 650 is barely warm after a flight.

I have seen no temp issues with the Adverun.

A soft mounted V.4 with good bearings and the new gears is quieter in the air then even the helical geared Adverun. Just my opinion from what I have seen. The Adverun is certainly not loud, but I have to give the nod in noise to the V.4.

The people running the Adverun, and the installations I have done, have required a modified mounting system to move the rear shock mounts further back. If running them in the stock location I have heard of tracking problems due to too much movement through corners.

Complete disassembly of an Adverun to replace the front bearing is a problem. The parts are shrink fit with a special Loc-Tite. It takes heat and while I wanted to take one of the ones I had apart I was unwilling to do that with a customers unit. Not sure I would even want to do it with one I owned. Since the bearings are running without lubrication, other then the sealed lube, I would think they will become an issue. The belt is an easy swap and seems to last a long time. The gear really should never wear out unless damaged.

The V.4 requires very little maintenance. I have flown 250 flights without doing anything and then when I took it apart it looked perfect. I am now going to do 350 flights without anything. I do not add grease ever to my V.4. Unless it has been assembled incorrectly the V.4 does not lose grease. So there is no need to add any. Also, too much grease is an excessive load to the system.

One advantage I see with an Adverun vs a V.4 is that the Adverun can come out of a model without system disassembly. The V.4 needs to partially come apart to remove and install it.

From what I have seen the V.4 consumes a bit more battery then an Adverun. But this has really not been proven, at least to me. Until I could fly an Adverun powered model 30-50 flights in the style I fly I won't know that for a fact. I feel that maybe I fly a little larger with a little more speed then my friends with Adveruns fly. So I can't really make a proper comparison. And since the V.4, IMO, makes more power maybe I tend to use it.

Currently a V.4 with the motor is less money then an Adverun system. Parts are readily available for the V.4, at least in the USA. Not sure on Adverun parts.

Oh, one more thing. You don't have to cut and trim a set of V.4 spinners when you get it. And you don't have to remove umpteen tiny little screws that tend to strip and get lost when changing props. And in the way I transport models in my mini van, you have to pay attention to how you mount the props with the Adverun. Since you can't put them just anywhere. But they don't spin in a wind and when you're pushing the model the props don't move. My V.4 has a habit of the props always going vertical when I'm pushing it by the tail!

Hope this helps!

Last edited by TonyF; 05-22-2019 at 05:02 PM.
TonyF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 06:28 AM
  #12  
kdunlap757
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Tony, just wondering where you get your grease for the V4? Do you use Rheolube 374A or something else? I have a Neu F3A that I want to grease and finding 374A is like trying to find rare gems. No luck. I see somebody selling 10ml for $25 and I am hoping there is a substitute or a cheaper source. Regards -Ked d. Pittsburgh
kdunlap757 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 07:53 AM
  #13  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 370
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by kdunlap757 View Post
Tony, just wondering where you get your grease for the V4? Do you use Rheolube 374A or something else? I have a Neu F3A that I want to grease and finding 374A is like trying to find rare gems. No luck. I see somebody selling 10ml for $25 and I am hoping there is a substitute or a cheaper source. Regards -Ked d. Pittsburgh
Since the Hacker in-runner has planetary gears like does the Contra, maybe this would work?... https://hackermotorusa.com/product-c...arts-2/grease/
big_G is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 10:07 AM
  #14  
TonyF
My Feedback: (92)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rosamond, CA
Posts: 2,089
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I use the grease Contra supplies. Available through F3A Unlimited.
TonyF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 01:38 PM
  #15  
rm
My Feedback: (27)
 
rm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 545
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

rm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 02:57 PM
  #16  
kdunlap757
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Thanks to all. I am having trouble getting ahold of TAI this week. So, I contacted Nye lubricants, the manufacturer, and the smallest they sell is a 2 OZ tube for $70+shipping -after you register as a vendor with them. A full tub goes for $120. If I can't get anything more reasonable, I'll buy a tub and see if anyone wants to split it.
kdunlap757 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service