kmp647

Here is info on my pattern plane.
World models groovy 50 f3a
53.5" span 536 sq in 5.5 lbs auw
Power is an Axi 4120/14 on 5s3700 xp polyquest pack WITH A 12x8 APCe prop.

I measured 1,123 watts at 59 amps. Should be good performance but I will have to watch full throttle usage and motor temps.


Kevin

Kolsso12

It will be interesting to get your opinion about how this plan is flying. I have start to assemble my Groovy 50 f3a, it will replace my Venus to next season. I will have a Plettenberg 25-16 and Aeronaut 15x10 and the older Polyquest SP 5S 4000 mAh. It gives 920 W and did have good performance on my Venus. My Groovy 50 f3a will weight 0.2 kilogram (0.4 lb) less compare to the Venus.

If you get problem to cool the motor, you are able to try without the spinner. I am flying with out spinner on my Plettenberg. Maybe it is possible to have spinner on that motor, but I have bad experience with outrunner and spinner.

Best regards
Kristian

kmp647

Kristian, first flight was today and all went well. It needs some fine tuning and trimming out. I had added 3oz of lead to the nose to get it to balance and I think I can remove 1.5oz of it. It is a very nice flying plane, smooth and accurate. I will have to work more on cooling once summer arrives, but right now its 60 degrees farenheit. The new xp cells really have some punch. I need 3-4 flights per pack to break them in, and trim out the plane.

Kevin

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Kevin,
Thinking about this airframe for the next plane. I'm currently flying a Fascination 50 from AK Models with the Axi 4120-14 on TP 4s2p 4200s.
Can you post further data on the motor runs and power system temps?
I'm considering going to a 5s pack with the next plane. I'm still on Basic pattern maneuvers and have plenty of power for those, but I can see the need for more down the road.
Thanks for any info.
Bill

kmp647

Bill, I have only 5 flights so far. Several have been very easy to break in the batteries. Motor and batteries seem fine (cool fall weather here). This plane has clearance for a 14" prop, and the best performance would be on a 14x10. As you know you can spin a 14x10 pretty well with a 4120/14 and 4s2p(650 watts ?) Once you go to 5s you have to drop the prop down.
I am using a 12x8.But I do get 1100 watts and thats what the plane really needs. The plane is a great design and flies very well, and you cant beat the large battery/radio access hatch built in. Its held by a dowel at the front and 2 screws at the back.
The best outrunner setup might be a 4120/18 6s pack and a 14x10. The heavier pack will eliminate cg problems and the 14x10 will give great performance.
with the 4120/14 and 5s
you will need short battery packs to get the cg far enough forward

If you have the typical long build tp packs it will be a problem. My packs are only 155mm long and weigh 17 oz. and are against the firewall. With a 4120/14 upfront I still need lead to balance(3oz)
Use lighter elevator and rudder servos to help prevent a cg problem too

Go for its its a great design and an easy conversion.

Kevin

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Kevin,
Great information and the picture says a lot for how to set-up the power system. I'm running a 14x7 right now. I've used a 13x10 and a 12x12 experimenting. All pull about 42amps and 500-600 watts on a full charge.

I'm surprised that you had to place the battery pack that far forward. I have the TPs in tandem inside the pipe tunnel on the Fascination. Almost right on the CG. I do have the motor on stand-offs and I use a receiver pack, mounted on the motor mount.

If I go 5cell, I think I will use 2 2000mah packs in parallel. I like the "brick" packs better than the longer style. Where did you get the 5cell PolyQuest? Hobby-Lobby has started carrying them, but only have the 4cell in the catalog.
Bill

Kolsso12

On my Venus I did have half of the battery in front of the firewall. The receiver battery and speedcontrol was also in front of the firewall. I have lighter motor than you so I will tray same solution on my Groovy.

/Kristian

kmp647

Bill , aircraft world has the polyquest packs in 5s configuration, and a new hyperion balancer that works great.
For whatever reason HL is not getting 5s packs. the hyperion 5i and 7i chargers are very good too.
I am now going to change to the 4120/18 motor to use a 14 or 15" prop, prob 14x10.

The firewall/landing gear design may make it tough to slide the batteries forward undr the motor.
Kevin

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Kevin, Thanks for the further information. I would have the same problem with the Fascination, if it didn't balance where the batts are.
Did you cut any extra cooling vents on this plane??

kmp647

Yup a nice mouth in the firewall for intake and a the normal hole in the botton of the fuse for exit.
BTW a 6s setup might be best with a 4120/18 and 15x10.
or 6s with a 4130/16(or pwr 60) and a 17x10, if you have clearance.

IMO 5s on a 4120/14 is past the motors efficiency point you have to prop down to 12x8 and turn 10k + rpms

I switched to a 4120/18 same 5s pack and a 15x10 prop, still get 1,000 watts and the plane just flies better with the bigger prop. if I had 6s packs I would go to a 14x10 and be at ~ 1,200 watts
Kevin

J Lachowski

My Feedback: (46)

Just finished assembly, ran the motor up and took some readings. Bad news is it came out heavier than I was hoping for. 6lbs-9ozs w/lipos and it balances right on the recommended CG using two Thunder Power 3S4P 5300ma Prolite narrow packs. A UBEC and smaller wheels could reduce the weight about 2 to 3 ozs. without affecting the CG. I am using no wheel pants and Dave Brown lightweight 2-3/4" wheels. Also, using Duralite 950ma Lion w/6V regulator, JR770 Rx, and JR3421SA servos and Jeti 77 Opto controller. No spinner, just spinner nut that comes with motor.

I ran the motor, Eflite 60BL, up tonight in the basement for about 30 seconds or so and was reading 50A plus and 1100 plus watts on the meter with a 15X10 APCE at full throttle. Didn't get a chance to tach it though.

kmp647

Joe , how much do your battery packs weigh? It should fly well on 1100 watts through a 15x10. Trying to figure out how your plane is 1lb heavier. I am using a small ubec, thats some of it.

FYI my plane is now 5lbs 9oz and flies well on ~ 1000 watts with a 15x10.

Kevin

J Lachowski

My Feedback: (46)

The plane basically balances on the wing tube in line with the dimensions in the instructions with the Lipos installed.

Each 3S4P pack weighs about 12 ozs.

I just doubled checked the weight of the airframe without the batteries and it weighs 5 lbs-0.1ozs. Smaller wheels and a UBEC will save about 3 more ozs. If your CG is further back, I sure would like to know what it is. I had originally hoped to be able to use the 4000ma packs which would have saved me another 6 ozs.

Guess I got a heavy airframe<g>.

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Just finished the build on my Groovy 50. AXI 4120-14, Jeti 70opto Esc, Hitec 225bb servos on all surfaces, Hitec Supreme 7 rcvr, 600mah rcvr battery. Airframe weight: 2.2 kg (4lbs, 13oz).
Airframe with batteries: 2.5kg (5lbs 8oz). Batteries: TP 4s2p 4200s, Gen II. (2 2s2p packs).
This set-up did well in a Fascination 50 pattern airframe. I don't try any 3-D and don't have unlimited vertical, but I can do the Sportsman pattern without a problem.
Bill

kmp647

Joe, my battery pack is only 16 oz(PQXP3700 5s1p) That accounts for 8oz. your 950ma lion must be around 3oz, thats 11oz heavier.Oh yeah the power 60 is heavier too by maybe 2 oz or so thats 13oz toatl

Now I do have about 2.5 oz of lead in the front and I am balanced at 135mm from the leading edge per the plans.

I would use a ubec to save 3oz if you are ok with them. Your packs must be short to get the cg right. The typical TP long build packs just make it to hard on a conversion.

Bill, thats a great power system , it will hold up well.

Kevin

kris1

Bill,

what prop are you running?

Cheers

Kris

J Lachowski

My Feedback: (46)

Finally, got out to fly the maiden flight today. NJ weather was around 40ish with a light wind. Plane flew pretty darn good. Horizontal speed was a little faster than expected, but it had the unlimited vertical I was looking for. The little fast caught me by surprise considering I was using an APCE 15X10. Lipos didn't even get warm. Guess I got the cooling right. The Eflite 60BL ran flawlessly and was very quiet.

Put back 2126mah and 2159mah into the 3S4P 5300mah TP Prolites after 7 plus minute of flying. Only flew it once. Plane does great point rolls. May have to look into shorter lighter lower capacity cells that I can put all the way forward and maintain roughly the same CG. About one inch of each pack is about an inch behind the CG already which is about as far as they will go without tearing things apart. These packs are about 8 inches long each. I think a pair of 3S2P 4200mah TP Prolites will work and save me 4 ozs.

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Kris,
Sorry for the late reply, I've had too much going on at work. I've run every thing from a 12x12 to a 14x7. I prefer an APC-E 13x10 (mid-range speed and flight seems better) and a 12x12 as a close second. I see about 40-45 amps and around 600watts on a fresh charge. I have RPM numbers in a file, but don't have that computer available right now. These numbers are from the Fascination 50, same power set-up.
I've only managed 1 flight so far on the Groovy, too windy to make any judgements.
Bill

kris1

Thanks Bill.

I have the grovy and am considering using it for electric or slap a YS 63 in it. I am using your set up in a pelikan Wildcap on 14 x 10 e and flight power 4s1p 3700. I recon on 4 1/4lbs AUW. Vertical is unlimited. and 8 mins of high powere aerobatics or 12 mins on easy stuff with more thottle control.

Cheers

Kris

Hornant

I have gone with the 5S3700 polyquest batts. Just waiting for them to turn up. AUW will be a touch under 2700grams. Power should be about 1000 to 1200 watts. I think it will be powerful.

Hornant

Has anyone had any problems with the landing gear mounting. I have just been told that two groovy 50 3a's left there gear behind on landing.....oouch

sorry no other info

Hornant

Here's the link to my first flight video....it is a great flying airplane


http://simplyhobby.com/index.php?mod...te&action=Home

BaldEagel

Hi all

Have you guys seen the new Flight Power LiPo's they are 3S1P but able to give 50amp continuous and 75amp bursts, they are maketed in the US by Duralite, being only 1P they will get over the cofg problem and reduce weight into the bargin, My 2500mAh weight is 7.5onz with leads and plugs these also have a balancing circuit plug attached. Can give you more details if you wish as I have a Medusa Analyser Pro with thrust cell and computer connection.

Mike

BaldEagel

Are we dead here

I have a 4130/16 that I was thinking of pulling out of my Graupner Extra 300L and putting in the Groovy 3A, the problem I have is the 6S2P battery I have is too long to go into the tank bay, it hits the wing tube, may have to but some of the new 3700mAh 20C batteries being offered at the moment as a 6S1P this would be lighter and capable of 74amps continuous, reduced flight times but maybe a small price to pay for the decrease in weight. Also the bigger motor may be more efficient at a lower power output therefore less power requirement so I may get duration back.

What do you think?

Mike

raineswn

My Feedback: (5)

Just got a chance to revisit this thread. I had the main gear pull out on mine. Our asphalt landing strip is only about 150 feet long and on the over run into the grass, the gear folded back. The ply plate was the usual ARF weak stuff and I saw a few spots that didn't have any glue on the joint area. I made up my own plate and added some triangle stock and epoxied it in. I've only been able to get in 3 more flights due to work, but no problems, yet.
Bill