mwick

Dentdoc:

I think my son Brett will post some more details later on, but essentially we didn't do anything extra except the following: Small amount of lite ply to reinforce the rudder servo tray, we thought it a little to flexible and a piece of basswood under the battery tray to reinforce and provide something to run a velcro strap around.

It could even be built lighter than our setup. We are using 9150 wing servos, there are lighter servos available. I haven't yet trimmed excess length wires from the controller to battery connection, and I am using bullet connectors from the controller to motor instead of hard solder connections.

We did use the Central Hobby 1/8 carbon rod with 2mm connections for all linkage. Very lite and stiff and very fine adjustment; MK ball bearing connections and Central Hobby's 2mm ball connections all making for an extremely slop free servo setup.

dentdoc

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Mike, I have another question for all the Beryll owners! Did you use soft mounts?
Did anyone use a "Bud"mount on there hacker? ( or simular.) If so could I please get a couple pics from the front/Spinner area how you did your install! This is my second e-plane but on the first the former I used to attach to was more recessed than the former allready attached in the nose of the fuse. I'm sure it's a simple approach but I want to make sure I don't screw it up. I would love to see how you guys attached your mounts before I get near this fuse with a drill or Aeropoxy. Thanks.

bwick

Our Beryll Setup:

C50 14XL Competition Motor and ESC; 20x15 APC-e prop
TP 5300 pro-lites
Wing: 9150's
Rudder: 9155
Elevator: 9650's
TP 900mAh 2 cell LiPo on receiver
Futaba G3 Receiver
MK Hardware with the carbon rod/2mm connections (running ZERO sub-trim on all surfaces)

I don't think making weight with the heavier 5000's will be much of an issue. The airframe is extremely light as is and as long as you're a little bit weight conscious as you build the plane it will come out fine.

I'm extremely happy with the flight performance. The CG started at the recommended 175mm (back edge of battery even with former just after LG plate) and I've since moved the battery back ~2", no idea how much that has affected the location of the CG. I'm still experimenting but I think the CG will stay in this area.

I am having a few problems however and it'd be interesting if any of you are experiencing the same. As I think I heard someone else say, with the incidence from the factory the plane was running up trim. I decreased the incidence of the stab (trailing edge up) and it got rid of the uptrim but I think it led to a lot of undesirable hunting and bad tracking. I'm going to reset it to where it was and play with it a little more to see if it really made a difference. I'm also experiencing tucking to the canopy on downlines, which is normal and not so worrying. However, I'm also experiencing tucking to the canopy on uplines and am wondering if we need to go through the trouble of an adjustment on the thrustline to fix this, or if someone else has seen this and corrected it some other way. I've also felt that the plane has too much right thrust as I think some others have found. I think this will be a relatively easy fix though, with a throttle/rudder mix or with an adjustment to the thrust line.

Despite these few kinks the plane flies as beautifully as it looks. Integrated rollers are gorgeous and it rolls on rails. Snaps and spins are crisp and it draws some of the more difficult radiuses beautifully. All-in-all I love the plane.

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

Glad to hear you got the Beryll flying, I can't wait to see it.

Regarding the issues you’re encountering, I have some questions for you.

1. Does the plane tuck to the belly or pull to the canopy in knife edge flight?

2. When you watch it fly straight and level does it appear to be level (i.e. not tail low or tail high)?

3. When flying straight and level at full throttle, if you cut the throttle to idle does it rise or sink?

These will determine if you should adjust your incidence or your thrust angle. To me it sounds like you definitely need to do some trimming before adding mixes to try and correct these tendencies.

Keith B.

flyf3a

Hi

On my Beryll the following was found during initial test flights. Tucking to canopy on down lines so I increased incidence on stab. Tucks to belly on knife edge so 15% up elevator mix to rudder. Pulled to the right on full throtle when going up for stall turn and level flight, changed thrust but caused other problems so mixed left rudder to throtle curve. Only about 5% left rudder on full throttle. CG moved battery onto landing gear plate with back of battery extending about 3 cm past the back of the landing gear plate. If you look at the photos on the Oxai web site you will see they have the battery also pushed far back. Also got picture from JP Zardini of ZN Line and he also has battery in the back position. Very little down elevator required on inverted flight.

Regards
Burt

darkvader

Hi Brett,

On my first flight, I had the same feeling.
Need some up elevator trimming. The CG was by 180 mm from the leading edge.
I've corrected with Stab adjuster (put down elevator leading edge), to take off elevator up trim.
Downlines: Go to canopy
Uplines: Go also to canopy, but not much. Also some tendency to the right. I've corrected the side thrust on the motor mount.
Knife Edge: Goes to the belly, both sides. Rudder -> Elevator Point Mix (7% max).

JPZ

Heer

Forget ,,,,Forget ,,,,,,other ,,,,,,,,planes ,,,,,!!!!!!

JPZ

flyf3a

Hi

Has anybody tried a three bladed prop on the Hacker motor yet or does any one know what APC three blade prop could be used.

Regards
Burt

rgreen24

My Feedback: (6)

It seems to me that Oxai airplane all carry some up -trim. I was told by Troy Newman, when I had my pinacle, to give the wing a little more positive inceidence. This did some of the up trim away, but the plane flew so good that the slight up trim did not matter. I also had no mixes on knife edge with the pinnacle, it was an unbelieveable airplane! I am sure that the Beryl is just as good.

bwick

1. Plane tucks to belly as most do

2. Appears to be level from my eye

3. Drops (I think... haven't actually tried this, sounds like something to check out)

Thanks

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

For item #3 it should continue for 10 or 15 yards on the same heading and then start gradually loosing altitude. If you see a significant change in the line when cutting throttle then you need to adjust your up/down thrust. If the plane noses down then you need to remove some up thrust from the engine (to me this sounds likely since your up lines are pulling to the canopy). If the plane starts to rise when you decrease throttle then you need to add up thrust.

This test needs to be done prior to contemplating changing the incidence of the main wing. Fixing the engine thrust should also help the pull to the canopy on up lines but won't affect the downlines.

Pulling to the canopy during downlines can be remedied by increasing the incidence of the main wing.

Some pilots use the down elevator on low throttle mix to correct pulling to the canopy. I've tried this but didn't like the elevator changing as I reduced throttle on horizontal lines, therefore I just learned to push a little down elevator on my downlines (with my Impact, not needed by my Brio or Aries).

The following link is some trim info that may be helpful: [link=http://www.rcaerobats.net/trim_chart.htm]www.rcaerobats.net/trim_chart.htm[/link]

Keith B

Reason for Edit: I mistakenly wrote "reduce incidence" when I should have written "increase incidence" above. This has been corrected.

dentdoc

My Feedback: (3)

I have my Wings finished out. The wieght is 16.0 oz & 15.7oz. Is this in the ballpark?

flyncajun

Brett If your airplane is going to the canopy in up and down lines add pos inc. to the wings you may have to move the battery Or C/G forward
too much tail wieght is giving you your pos angle off attack. Bad news for mixing.
Adding pos to the wings will make your up trim go away and make your up and down lines straight
1/6 of up trim on a zero stab set up is usually two turns "in "on a adjster
But remember tail weight and too much pos. inc will give you the same problems,,, and almost feel like the same thing
tuck to the belly on knife especially left rudder even though it goes to the canpy in up and down lines Kinda weird HUH
if this is the case your probably tail heavy AND the wing inc is too neg
so you have to find "Exact c/g" this could take some time to fine tune for your taste
when your c/g and inc is correct all your thrust problems will go away it all works hand in hand ,,then you won`t need any mixes
when you get the pos inc right in the wing about 1/3 deg pos. you will feel a difference in the groove of the airplane it will lock on and you will know as soon as you lift off
moving the stabs do nothing But align the elevators to the stab,, the stab and elev. do the same task back there.
hope this helps ,,
Glad you got it flying
Bryan

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

Bryan,

I have a general trim question for you. On my Brio right knife-edge (using left rudder) tucks to the belly, but on the left side (right rudder) this tendency is very mild.

How does one make incidence/CG adjustments so both sides are straight?

Also, interestingly on right knife-edge (left rudder), I have a bit of adverse roll.

Keith B

mwick

Cameron:

I think your wings are heavy, I would use a 4" hole saw on the tips. This will also make it snap faster, but better be on your toes for landing.

Mike

mwick

I will weigh our wing panels tonight and post. My guess is that ours are heavier simply due to servo weight. But before you take my idea of using a hole saw, fly the plane. With the small tapered wing, this plane snaps faster than anything I've seen and abruptly stops rotation. Spin entries are extremely clean and level. We are very pleased with the flight characteristics of the plane and the weight of the total setup.

Mike

Troy Newman

LOL nice Mike,

you could use some of your Foamy hinge tape to cover the holes.

Actually these weights seem pretty light ready to fly. I'm sure some people can build them lighter but this is a painted wing right?

I assume the CF tube is about 2oz like the PBG's this makes the wing 33.7oz flying. I have an Synergy that is a one piece wing and it is 35.5oz flying with Ultracote on the wing. The Synergy is a very good snap roll plane too. I also had a Angel Shadow that got shot down it had really light wing panels and they were 15.8oz each. I see many people talk about how light they have their bits. The reality is we all like to feel good about how great of job we did and probably fudge the number down a little too.

Sombody flying one of these has to have actual weights on the Beryl, I would kill for wings like that on my Impact. 19oz out of the box and Jason won the NATS with that bad boy.

Get it flying dentdoc and tell us what you think. Inquiring minds what to know.


Allen March

bwick

I got bored so I weighed our wing panels

L: 15.5 oz
R: 15.7 oz

nanny-nanny boo-boo my wings are .5 oz's lighter

Stuart Chale

Mine are even a bit lighter at 15.49 and 15.34 ounces. (JR servos)
The wing tube is 2.01 ounces.

Stuart

flyncajun

Keith
look closely at your airplane let the surfaces talk to you
It seems that your airplane is a tad on the tail heavy side
reduce the tail weight and increase the wing inc more pos
Make darn sure the right side Elevator half is not lower than the left side <looking from the back>
If any thing, this can be mostly tweeked out Buy adding a Half turn out on the right side Elevator Half
if the wings are carrying any trim adjust your wing level. most likely if you look very close you will see a small amount of trim.
Make sure the wings are aligned with the verticle fin Perfectly and the Stab is Perfectly aligned with the Wing If So
the tail heavy condition you are having can cause a left rudder roll adverse roll coupling.
add pos to wing ,,half a turn ,,add nose weight/remove tail wieght
hope this helps let me know how it does
Bryan

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the feedback Bryan. No I just need time to get out to the field and try you ideas out.

Keith

Troy Newman

WOW 3/4oz total difference between the wings on 3 different Beryl kits. I was expecting an ounce maybe two ounce swing between two different models. Now that's appoaching thing the weight of the bugs smashed on the Leading edge.

Pretty good control of materials and manufacturing. Heck a little less sanding of primer or a little fill work can account for those changes. I like the sound of that since I may be in the market for a Zeque. Chris Moon's plane is just gorgeous.

A few years ago well 1995 or so. I still had some hair on my head and could work as a balsa wood termite. A friend and I build some Typhoon 1000's. We built 3 sets of wings from cores. All the wood was weighed and we tried like hell to keep the weight the same. In the end I had the heavy set and the light set. With everything the same as we could make them. The difference was about 1.6oz from light to heavy. These wings had retracts and were done in Money Coat. With the Beryl wings painted I'm impressed.

I suppose its time to pony up to the bar and get me a well done ship. I was thinking a Black Magic on the cheap side but it just looks a little plain compared to the lines on the Jap model. I like the looks of the Zeque and to have that level of work done for me. I think it just might be worth the price.

Allen

bwick

I think most the difference in the weights of these wings can be attributed to the servo and linkage choice. We're using light control and servo horns with carbon rod and 2mm connections. I think this makes up for some of the weight gained with our heavier servos.

Either way Oxai obviously has some incredible quality control. The fact that we're talking over less than an ounce on both wing panels combined is incredible.

darkvader

L.Wing=434gr (JR Servo NES7005)
R.Wing=427gr (JR Servo NES7005)
Wing Tube=46gr
Linkage: Steel 2,5mm diam, MK Ball Links

dentdoc

My Feedback: (3)

I noticed oxai has The NEW Beryll being advertised on there website.http://www.oxai-rc.com/main/default.aspx