tIANci

You guys need to live nearer to China like me ... hehehehehee ...

huison2005

Hey tIANci , just upload my 110 in youtube ......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp7TsTfgNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehAYQJ0gmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF0vCPPbtfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STLjfbdC3sQ

mikehannah

Hi9
Okay I have a few daft question.

1) To me having to use up trim is wrong because the amount of force from the trim will vary with the planes air speed and will there fore need to be constantly adjusted to keep the plane trimmed for straight and level flight. Relying on up trim is a fudge not a fix.

2) As they all have this problem why wasn't it fixed in the flight testing ( eg wing or stab incidence adjusted) . One of the reason I bought the Wind ( which is not cheap) was that it is supposed to be an out of the box ready to go, minimum trimming solution to my need for a pattern plane. Needing to have up trim just plain annoys the T*Ts off me. If i had built this plane it would be telling me I had got it wrong somewhere.

3) I would have thought by pure physics ( eg force vector analysis) that you have down thrust on the engine trying to pull the nose down pivoting round the cg and we have up trim on the tail producing a downwards acting force on the tail. So we have two forces acting to counteract each other.(simplistically speaking) so if you reduce the down thrust you can reduce the amount of downwards acting force( eg up trim) at the tail.

Or is my thinking entirely wrong??

Mike

hezik

Nope.. it doesn't. Trimming up is exactly the same as setting incidence, by trimming you give the stab an incidence.

I'm not convinced it is wrong the way it is now. The plane was built for zero-gravity flying with 0 incidence. If that's your cup of tea, then it'll be perfect right out of the box. It _is_ a cheap airframe, relatively spoken. Name me one other airframe which ended up in the WK top 5, and is sold as 110 sized version for a pricetag around 440 euro's. There are none.

Overall I think the CG as mentioned in the manual is wrong, to far forward. With a more aft CG, the need for up trim is smaller and, if you fly zero gravity, even non-existant. I think the correct CG would be somewhere around 20cm.

To you: don't worry about the up trim. It's the same as giving incidence to the stab. It's not speed-dependant and once you got the right trim, you won't notice it.

This plane DOES fly very good out-of-the-box. It has it's limitations, but overall it's just a damn good plane

Biggest limitation is the acceleration on downlines.

tIANci

Hezik ... that was a good call. My CG is about 195+mm, almost. I like it just a slight bit nose heavy. The acceleration on downlines is very pronounced. Will an ESC with brake settings make much difference?

JB ... I am almost there!!! How is your new baby?

Jeff Boyd 2

Yes Wilson . . you are a LEGEND ! !

The new baby is fine . . breast feeding it at the moment

I think ESC / Motor braking is another great benefit of electric power. It is probably less necessary on some of the glow/hybrid designs. The bulky fuses, thick wing sections and thick TE's tend to create reasonable drag and slow the plane on downlines, it seems.

I can tell you one thing for sure, the Wind S Pro has a thin fuse . . much thinner than the Integral (but almost as deep), thin wing section and thin TE's. So I think ESC/motor braking is necessary. If it were glow, I am sure it would accelerate dramatically on downlines . . but it is an EP design ONLY.

Cheers, JB

tIANci

JB ... this one is for you ... 10K!!! Heheheheehehe .... Legend in my own mind?

I wish I could get the 2M version of the WindS ... I really wish. Well, if I nail a project in March next year I will spoil myself and go buy the Ms Wind Pro! Who cares if I compete or not, she look pretty and as long as she can tumble and prop hang its okay! Hahahahahaa ... Then I will go visit you and see Henry again. You can fly my plane of course. Hehehehee ...

J-P

My Feedback: (1)

10.000 POSTS when you have nothing to say ....... that's a true performance

tIANci

JP ... its a mere hobby its meant to be fun. Idle talk can be fun. Try it some time ...

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Huison thanks for the vids! There also is a new one on Youtube of the Wind 110 with the suggested Hacker motor and 10S:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulHmaHHhQds

I have spent a couple of days watching every video on this plane possible. I think that for pattern, 10S is definitely the way to go. The plane looks incredibly light on 8S - probably a lot of fun, but for precision tracking through maneuvers the extra power and weight seem to be a welcome addition. It is also nice that the 10S Scorpion motor is lighter than the Hacker so the extra weight really is minimized.

I'm really curious if people have gone through any proper trimming routines and what the outcome was - I have found every plane I've flown so far to need some kind of adjustment - thrust angle, incidence...something.

Not to draw a comparison to the Venus again, but I noticed the Venus has 0 degree incidence on the wings and stab, but only 1.5 degrees of down thrust (although I think I added 1/2 degree). I don't recall the Venus needing much up elevator when properly balanced.

I can not wait for this airplane, I'm getting antsy!

...and close to 4000 posts in a year and a half has to be worth something!

tIANci

Joe ... you not received yours yet? So which motor will it be? The Hacker or the Scorpion? Huison informed me that he used a data logger and the average amps pulled was about 45A only with a XOAR 18x10. Not bad ya ...

Jeff Boyd 2

Wilson . . CONGRATULATIONS ! ! . . RCU should give you a new keyboard for your efforts ! . . I am sure you have worn yours out now.

Cheers, JB

hezik

If the downthrust isn't correct your aircraft wil pitch up or down when transitioning from foll throttle to idle and back. The WindS (at least, mine) doesn't. So the downthrust is correct.

I have trimmed mine according to trimcharts.

ESC braking should help with acceleration on downlines, but with the SebArt setup (Hacker Master Basic 90/Hacker A50-16L) it simply doesn't. The master basic is exactly the same ESC as the Spin 99 OPTO (hardwarewise) but has different firmware with very limitid brake settings which simply don't cut it.

The 8s setup flies just fine. Only on days with wind above 5bft, will you need more power.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I pre-ordered mine from Esprit. Hoping to have it beginning December. I liked the idea of the Hacker on 10S, but since I'm on a limited budget I'm going to use Zippy batteries and thus want the Scorpion to save some weight.

I never heard of a bft of wind, but the translator said 5bft is close to 18mph, which is pretty common for flying in Vermont. I also hear that it gets quite windy at Nats and I really hope to end up there with this plane over the next couple of years.

I've been talking to product development at Castle Creations. I'm thinking of going with the Phoenix ICE HV when it comes out for data logging, but I want to find out how much control there is over the breaking. I'm assuming there is a bit of control, but just want to be sure.

huison2005

gaRCfield , glad to hear that you preorder one ... , well , 10s setup is good for pattern flying ..... i have some data to update here.
with E-logger :

Full thorttle WOT about 2600watts , 65amp with Xoar 18x10wood-E prop
Fot the vertical up line max amp draw is 45amp and used 1700Watts
Fly p-09 for 9min and land 2200 to 2400mah used (i use 4900 mah Rhino5sx2packs)

So ther are still planty of reserved power for it . . . .

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

AWESOME!!! I can't wait!

Huison (or Tianci), can you give some more detail as to how you supported the rear of the motor? I was strongly advised to make sure the motor is supported at both fore and aft locations.

I am TOTALLY psyched for some nice, long flight times with 5000mah

2Sunny

Wilson,

10,000 posts!

[sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif][sm=wink_smile.gif]




I'm still workin' on the plan, but I hope you're thinkin' about what to do with a couple Yankee's on vacation.


JP

tIANci

Garfield ... I followed that Huison told me, put a big wheel collar or fabricate one onto the shaft first as a spacer, DO NOT secure, then slide the bearing, it will then sit on the wooden bracket. If the collar is not thick enough then use some extra washers. Mine half sits and there is no issue. I may machine a new collar for her, just to be on the safe side. That helps support it in place.

JP ... Its 10K posts because I spend too much time on the net! Anyways, don't wonder, just come, that is all you need to do. Before you come over, lose about 15 lbs first for each week's stay, I assure you, you will gain weight. Malaysia is worth 10-14 days. KL itself about 4-5 max. So work the plan ok. Enjoy this pic ... claypot fresh water prawns, steamed fish (this fish tastes like cod a bit) and pork with steamed buns. Lovely I tell you! Worth dying for!!!

tIANci

gaRCfield ... here are some pics ...

huison2005

Garfield , have some pic for the scorpion motor .......

paphman

My Feedback: (3)

tIANci / huison,

Do you think if there will be any problems for not installing the rear support for the motor?

paphman

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I found another motor that fits. The diameter is considerably smaller (about 1/2") than the Scorpion 4035, and weighs considerably less (about 4oz).

[link=http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm1500.html]Neu Motors 1500 series[/link], specifically the [link=http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/1500/1515/1515-2y.html]1515-2Y[/link].

Model RPM/Volt Weight (oz) Length (in) Rm (Ohms) Io@10v Max RPM Continuous Watts Surge Watts Max Voltage Apps Price
1515/2Y 1,100 12.00/12.7 2.7 0.019 1.1 60K 1,250 watts 2,500 watts 54 volts F3A 120size $249.00

I unfortunately don't know crap about these things! Probably will still get the Scorpion just 'cause I understand the numbers[&:]

tIANci

Joe ... Nue has a motorcalc that you can use. Select the motor, number of cells, gear box ... key in the prop and you get the results. From the Seb website you can see to use an inrunner takes a lot of work. Everyone says the Nue motors are great stuff but is the amount of work worth it? I am lousy at such things so I went with the Scorpion, its a retro fit.

Paphman ...only thing hard about installation is the area is tight, no biggie. The rear support is an easy thing, slide in the bracket and attach with the 4 wood screws.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

The Neu 1917 is a direct fit. Exact same (25mm, 3M or 4M) mounting holes as the Scorpion, same case diameter (1.96in), and is .2 inches longer, so should fit the rear support perfectly.

http://www.neumotors.com/Site/1900_series.html

tIANci

Joe ... I have not used a Nue but is the 1900 series not an inrunner? Inrunners and outrunners behave differently.