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  1. #476
    lc_eiras's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Hello,
    Just finished the modification on my Wind, I will try it next weekend.
    After one year of flying I had to change the rudder original hinges for Grupner (similar to Robart). I think I use to much tension on the rudder wires, but if not the servo can not find the center. Any one experience this (Futaba BLS servo)
    The aileron and elevator original hinges, are ok…..
    Regards
    Luis



  2. #477
    RC_Pattern_Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    A quick question.... are the wing fences parallel to the centerline of the fuse or perpendicular to the hinge line for the aileron?

    Thanks

    Chuck
    Mark Hunt Designs

  3. #478
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Parallel to the centerline of the fuse. I am going to fly mine today again as we have some wind. When I initially flew mine it was bumpy air and I didn't like them at all. The last time I tried them it was calm and it flew nice, but after a long conversation with someone I trust I am not sure it will perform well in the wind. I have hear Seba removes them on windy days, so I am anxious to see the results.

    Arch
    Team Futaba, Aero-Model / Hacker, Tech Aero Designs, F3A Unlimited, Team BJ Craft, Thunder Power RC, Castle Creations

  4. #479
    RC_Pattern_Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Thanks Arch.

    Chuck
    Mark Hunt Designs

  5. #480

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    just replaced all the hinges in mine with robart . Seems like the original are to soft of a plastic.

    Gary

  6. #481
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro


    ORIGINAL: grcourtney

    just replaced all the hinges in mine with robart . Seems like the original are to soft of a plastic.

    Gary
    Almost 800 flights on my number 1 bird and not a single issue with a hinge. I wouldn't use them on glow, but I don't think they are an issue on electric. You just have to ensure you get enough glue on them when installing them,

    Arch
    Team Futaba, Aero-Model / Hacker, Tech Aero Designs, F3A Unlimited, Team BJ Craft, Thunder Power RC, Castle Creations

  7. #482
    lc_eiras's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Hi Arch,

    Can I ask were did you get this information (Parallel to the centerline of the fuse....), I asked the constructor of the fances :
    Need some help to install the fences in the main wing
    The fences are installed parallel to the fuselage or 90 degrees with the aileron line?
    Picture 2)



    Hereplied to get the datum from the aileron line.
    Can you help me with this.
    Thank you,
    Best Regards
    Luis

  8. #483

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    @Arch:

    The supplied hinges are crap and this has NOTHING to do with the amount of glue used. Out of the box more than half of them already had backlash, so that's before even glueing them in. In this thread, more than a dozen of people reported issues with the hinges.

    I don't think the plastic is too soft, but they have backlash, or at least, a large part of them has. Besides that, the construction of hinges is poor, one has to add extra support for them not to be sloppy.

    Now I can believe you had the luck of getting a good batch of hinges, but to say they are ok and if not it's the amount of glue used, is bullocks, with all due respect

    Please people; do yourself a favor and throw the hinges away as far as you can, and replace them by quality hinges (ie the robart ones) and support those well up to the hinge point, ie by using wood sides or carbon tube inserts. Both are demonstrated and discussed in this thread already.

  9. #484

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Regarding roll stability and wingfences:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_fence

    The WindS has slightly swept wings, which means the LE of the wing is swept backwards at a pretty high angle. Resulting of this is a lateral airflow over the wing, which at the tips might even be greater than the normal airflow, resulting in reduced lift at the tips and roll instability.

    The WindS is roll-instable if you build it according to specs with the CG at the specced point. Other than Arch, every other WindS pilot I ever spoke to (about 5) confirmed this. This is what the wingfences are there for.

    @Arch: possibly yours is more stable because of a higher weight? mine weigs in at around 4600 grams AUW including drive battery. Or possibly you fly it at a pretty high speed? What engine/prop are you using?

  10. #485

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro


    ORIGINAL: hezik

    @Arch:

    The supplied hinges are crap and this has NOTHING to do with the amount of glue used. Out of the box more than half of them already had backlash, so that's before even glueing them in. In this thread, more than a dozen of people reported issues with the hinges.

    I don't think the plastic is too soft, but they have backlash, or at least, a large part of them has. Besides that, the construction of hinges is poor, one has to add extra support for them not to be sloppy.

    Now I can believe you had the luck of getting a good batch of hinges, but to say they are ok and if not it's the amount of glue used, is bullocks, with all due respect

    Please people; do yourself a favor and throw the hinges away as far as you can, and replace them by quality hinges (ie the robart ones) and support those well up to the hinge point, ie by using wood sides or carbon tube inserts. Both are demonstrated and discussed in this thread already.
    Maybe some of the newer kits have better hinges or something but I have to agree that most of the owners I have spoken to say the hinges are really sloppy and have a lot of play. I bought my plane second hand and really was looking for any excuse not to redo the hinges but they had about 1 - 2mm play on pretty much every hinge. It was very painful getting them out but I had to do it to get slop free controls. I would seriously tell guys to replace the hinges that come with the kit with 3mm robart hinges.

  11. #486
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    How do the Robart hinges hold up? Do they get sloopy as well? I have just glued the ailerons and the elevators on my Wind S Pro. I replaced the supplied hinges with Robart and glued them with 30 min epoxy. The result is really good. Hope I can say the same after one season of flying.

    The quality for the Wind S Pro is better than expected. I have the “Base” white/red and will do my own colour scheme.

    Henning

  12. #487

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    So far, for me, they are doing fine after approx 150 flights with them. The issue is not that much the development of backlash during usage, but the fact that most of the supplied hinges already have backlash before you even glue them in.

  13. #488

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    I would very much like an explanation of what Hezik means by roll-instable. I have flown my Wind S Pro more than 600 flights (P11, F11 and P13). During 32 years of competing in F3A ( best result 6:th place at a EC) I have never flown a model more stable than the Wind S. It is extremely good in windy and turbulent conditions. At several competitions the judges have commented on the stability of my model compared to other types of models. My setup is nothing out of the ordinary. The CG is at the back of the recomended range. Rollrespons is smooth and predictable with very precise stops. It rolls straight as an arrow (no pun intended) with minimum compensation.

    Regards Anders Johansson
    Sweden

  14. #489

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    I'm not sure if you want to call it roll instability but mine has wing rock in turbulent weather more so than my E-motion plane. My CG is fwd of their recommended by 5mm. I will say that I have a very slow flying style but could not get it to lock in. While trying a few things I soon realised the model locks in well with a bit more power. I have got used to the extra speed and have changed my style fractionally but I had terrible wing rock when trying to fly fractionally slower. It even became difficult to time a pull or push into the vertical as it would abruptly move off line when the wing would rock. Maybe we need to accept that different setups and styles will have different results. I'm absolutely loving my Wind S and got a 5th in F3A at our first 2012 comp in South Africa this weekend

  15. #490

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    by 'roll instability' I mean it has the tendency to make small uncontrolled rolling movements. This is clearly demonstrated in this flight, especially the second half when the wind starts to pick up a bit:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC_Nw...u0wEZNGdVvqgos

    Please note that I'm not CPLR or even pretend to come close to that, but I'm a reasonable pilot and I'm capable of seeing flaws in an airplane. I love my WindS, sure I do, but it does have a weakness and that's the fact that it's not 100% stable, or 'locked in' around the roll axis. After having flown for 2 years with the WindS 110, I switched to the WindS Pro 2m last year. Flew roughly 1300~1400 flights on the 110 and roughly 300 flights on the 2m version. Have tried CG's from very far forward do reasonably aft. Although this does influence the roll stability, it never got 'truly stable' like the 110 was. The 110 has less sweep and lower wingloading and is more stable. I do have a rather slow flying style, and winds over here are always at least 'moderate'.

    Please note I'm talking about a WindS without the wingfences mounted.

    Sebart has a reason why he's always flying it with fences, why the CFK wings and stabs are changed and also why the new seba bird has a different wing.

    Lastly, I agree with the above said:
    "Maybe we need to accept that different setups and styles will have different results"

    Factor in this is mostly speed and selected CG. If you have a more uptempo flying style and use a reasonably forward CG, you will have less issues, probably.

    As far as rolling goes, the WindS is a fine plane. It rolls very axial, stops are immediate and crisp. It's not what it does when you're actually steering a roll which is the issue. It's what it does when you're NOT steering a roll


  16. #491
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Fair enough. I personally haven't noticed that. I have actually noticed it becoming less stable in yaw with the fences in windy conditions. After much discussion with people I trust, and also some PhD's that I work with, the plane doesn't have enough sweep for fences to work properly. Fences are beneficial on airplanes with large sweeps to do exactly what they were designed to do. On the Wind the wing sweep is actually very minimal as the trailing edge sweeps, but not a great deal. The issue with yaw stability is the fact the fences are actually in front of the center of pressure of the aircraft. I really like how the plane feels with only the tail fences. It locked in much better in turbulant conditions what with the fences. Also, my fences are parallel with the inboard aileron hinge line, which I checked is perpendicular to the wing tube, which means they are parallel to the center line of the fuse. I plan to keep playing with the fences, but so far I've been happier without them. I do tend to fly a larger/faster style, and my plane is around 10# 12oz, so it is heavier. I think one issue we have today is that we need to get the plane similar in weight to the designers ideas. Light airplanes are great, if you have a smaller wing, but if you have a larger wing like the Wind, then the plane is definitely more stable at a higher wing loading to some degree. You can get pattern planes too light. At least in my opinion,

    Arch
    Team Futaba, Aero-Model / Hacker, Tech Aero Designs, F3A Unlimited, Team BJ Craft, Thunder Power RC, Castle Creations

  17. #492

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    I totally agree with you. Besides fences, I'm going to add weight to my plane. Not lead ofcourse, but battery capacity.

    When dealing with sweep and the airflow introduced by that, it's the sweep of the LE of the wing which is the factor. You can imagine if wind hits the wing dead-on, most wind will be split between upper and lower wingsurface, but some wind will 'blow down the LE'.. the more sweep you have, the bigger this influence gets. This will cause an uneven lift-distribution, in which lift deminishes the further away from the fuse you get.

    The original goal of wingfences, was to break this airflow, thus creating a more even lift-distribution over the entire wing.

    Example of lift distribution on a swept wing with or without fences:



    Anyways, it's all a matter of feeling, opinion, flying style and so on. It appears some pilots seem to have issues with the roll-stability of this plane, and some don't. All love it

  18. #493
    rcpattern's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    A local club member took this photo and I thought it was a nice shot, so I thought I would share.

    Approaching 1000 flights on this plane and still loving it,

    Arch
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  19. #494
    lc_eiras's Avatar
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Finally I had the opportunity to test the Wind, 6 flights with the wing modifications (wing fences and wing tips).
    In one word, UAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    What a great plane……...
    It tracks better and it rolls better, just start the 2012 training


  20. #495

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    great job on fitting the fences , you should try the tail plane fences , these really throw the anchor out on the down lines!!.

    regards
    steve underwood

  21. #496

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    tail fence,with lightening holes.

    rgds
    steve u
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  22. #497

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    All, I would like to hear your comments on the preferred Wind S incidence measurements found and if severe downthrust was introduced with good results by anyone?

    Regards
    Danie
    Note to Self - The object of the game is to make the thing return in one piece!

  23. #498
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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro


    ORIGINAL: nofuss

    All, I would like to hear your comments on the preferred Wind S incidence measurements found and if severe downthrust was introduced with good results by anyone?

    Regards
    Danie

    I started out by setting the wing at 0* and then setting the stab at +0.5*. I did not like it like this and wound up with setting the wing at 0* and the stab at +0.1*. I had to file the stab adjuster hole to get the stab to go anyless than about +0.3*. I have 2* low throttle to down elevator mix and just a very slight amount of left rudder to up elevator mix.I think it is about 2-3*. Flies really, really well with this setup. Oh yes, my CG is at 195mm aft of the wing leading edge. Spinner backplate is even with the nose ring as molded. I did not add any more downthrust or right thrust.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    MJ
    Never left one up there yet.......

  24. #499

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Maidened my Wind S pro on 4/21/12 in a 10 to 15 kt crosswind. Nice and stable. Color scheme easy to see even with gray overcast sky.

    Steve
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  25. #500

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    RE: Sebart Wind S Pro

    Nice Steve ! Well done !


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