wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Brenner, as of now, I would rather not disclose what I have done until I have put a significant number of flights on my Proteus just to reinforce my findings. Hope you understand. Everette

preston blake

i don't understand

OhD

What is the difference between a V2 and a V3? I believe I have 3 V3s.

Jim

Brenner

The V1 Drive was the first Drive we made. We never sold this to anyone. It was made specifically as a protoype. The V2 Drive was the second Drive we made and the first Drive that we sold to customers. The V3 Drive was an improved version that added a second main bearing in order to increase robustness to prop strikes. The V4 Drive was a completely different design that eliminated the main bearings, and was designed to use a lighter and more powerful motor.

Most people have either V3s or V4s. Parts are no longer available for the V2.

Brenner ...

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Brenner, I stand to be corrected but, don't most of the internal moving parts of the V3 fit a V2? I had a V3 for a while and found most of the internal moving parts to be interchangeable with my V2. After running and evaluating the performance of both units I decided to sell the V3 to a flyer in Australia.

Brenner

Hey Everette,

There is a percentage of parts that are common, but the gearcase assembly is not.

Brenner ...

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Brenner, will be in touch.

bandicootf16

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

There is more to the story, I don't fly huge ( I try not to exceed 400 feet AGL), or more than 160 meters out and most importantly, I try to fly SLOW even when the wind blows (which is most of the time) here in middle Tennessee. Because my Proteus weighs just over 10 lbs I am able to routinely fly Masters with Zippy Compact 3700mah 5s x2 packs. I used to have to work hard to NOT exceed 3000mah per flight but over a period of time I learned a better way to get the job done!

bandicootf16

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

No, I slowly changed my flying style over a period of the last 3-4 years and the modification to the V2/Neu inrunner served to enhance the constant speed and improved throttle response and control. What really helped me the most was to change from my Allure and its Adverrrun outrunner back to my Proteus. IMHO, outrunners are just too power hungry and require ALOT more work/throttle management to fly with consistency. Hope that answers your question.

big_G

My first V4...Is it common to have a spinner wobble at part throttle? Only above idle and seems to be non existent at higher speeds. I am using the blue soft mounts that come with the unit. Thanks, Gary

Brenner

Hey Gary,

Generally no, your Drive shouldn't wobble too much as you spin up. However, there are a couple of things that can cause a "wobble". Some are nothing to worry about, and some are cause for concern.

It is possible that your bottom spinner slipped when you tightened up the rear prop nut causing the edge of the prop opening to get pushed out when it was pressed against the prop hub. This is generally not a problem, because the system will remain balanced due to both sides pushing out evenly. I prevent this from happening by using a disc of 1000 grit sandpaper between the rear spinner and the rear prop. This keeps the spinner from moving relative to the prop hub as the prop nut is tightened.

There is also a resonant frequency in the mounting system as the Drive rpm is increased from zero rpm that is just off of idle. As the Drive rpm goes through this resonance you might see the Drive shake slightly and then settle down. The blue isolators should have enough internal damping to snub most of this movement out, but you should still be able to see it if you look for it. This resonance is actually a good thing because once a rotordynamic system passes through its first resonant natural frequency it becomes stable. If the mounting system was too stiff this natural frequency would be much higher, and there would be a lot more destructive energy in the system as the Drive passed through this higher natural frequency, and it's likely that the system would become completely unstable. If this resonant frequency is especially noticeable, you might consider checking your prop balance.

There is a third kind of wobble that is more of a concern. This is a type of wobble that can happen after a bad prop strike. What can happen is that the prop strike causes the the collapsible Drive collet to momentarily overcome the friction in the motor shaft connection, causing the collet and the shaft to shift all to one side though all of the tolerances in the assembly. If this has happened you can tell easily by holding the rear spinner with one hand and turning the front prop with your other hand. If you feel a pulsing sensation then it is likely that this is what has happened.

The solution is pretty easy. What you do is remove the Drive from motor rotor shaft and reinstall it. This will cause the collapsible collet assemble to recenter itself. You can then confirm that the problem is fixed by checking for pulsing in the rear spinner again.

This is the only wobble that you really need to be concerned about. If you feel any pulsing in the rear spinner when you turn the front prop, my recommendation is to not fly until you have removed the Drive from the motor shaft and reinstalled it to recenter the collapsible collet.

Brenner ...

big_G

Thanks for your reply, Brenner. If I recall, it seems more like a resonance. That was my first thought. Only just above idle, then transitions thru the wobble and smooths out. I'll do the prop check as you explained. I have maybe 10 flights on it now, and it is the same as the first flight.

big_G

Brenner...update: Holding the rear spinner/prop. and rotating the front prop yields only subtle mechanical gear and motor feedback. No tight spots or binding of any kind. Anyways, I'll observe mine as well as others I see to compare.
Thanks again, Gary

Brenner

Hey Gary,

Sounds like you're good.

Brenner ...

xalm04

Well, I have retrofitted and tested the V3 with the Hacker C54 with good results. The motor is not just plug and play in the old C50 mounting, I had to move forward the rear support as the motor is shorter, and sand the front of the cowling about 4 mm. The motor has a higher KV than my old C50-14XL so I had to adjust the curve and limit the throttle. I made just 4 flights but everything looks working fine. It´s a very good update for the system and as a collateral result now my plane is 60g lighter. If some of you are planning to change it´s a good move, specially if you have C50 because you don´t have to buy the complete kit for C54 as the manifold and insert are the same, just have to change the carbon fiber mounting that has a completelly different way to attach to the motor.

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Xavier, IMHO you made a very smart move doing a motor retrofit on your V3. Just because the V3 (like the V2) is not the current version, does not mean it is not a viable option. Happy it worked out for you!

rm

My Feedback: (27)

So is the pyro 600-94 we're getting from f3a 10 or 14 pole?

Also what's the gear ratio for the v4, with the replacement gear set?

I assume the kv is 940?

Brenner

The Pyro 600-94 is a custom 10 pole motor that is wound especially for the Contra Drive by Kontronik. It has a 940 rpm/V kv.

Winding the motor as a 10 pole motor makes it possible for ESC Controllers like the Castle to keep up with the required commutation rate. The Jeti Mezon can keep up with both 10 pole motors and 14 pole motors.

ESC Controllers that will work with the Pyro 600-94 are as follows:

1/.. The Castle 80 HV
2/.. The Jeti Mezon 90, 95, 130, 135
3/.. The YGE 90 HVT Opto, 120 HVT Opto
4/.. The Kontronik Jive Pro 80+ HV, Jive Pro 120+ HV

All of these Controllers except the Castle 80 HV also work with the Pyro 600 14 pole motor.

The Castle and the Jeti require the user to specify the PWM frequency. This should always be set at the highest available frequency, 12 kHz for the Castle, and 16 kHz for the Jeti. The YGE and the Kontronik both have dynamically adjustable PWM frequencies. The YGE goes from 16 kHz to 32 kHz, and the Kontronik goes from 32 kHz to 64 kHz. The reason for specifying the fastest PWM frequency is so that there are enough on/off cycles between each motor commutation for the motor to run smoothly.

The YGE and the Kontronik Jive also both have something called a "Free Wheeling Circuit". This is a circuit that uses power FETs to short out the diodes across the power FETs that carries the motor current. This reduces the voltage drop across the motor current power FETs when they are turned off by the ESC controller. This is done to reduce power losses during part throttle operation. This can help with any setup where the throttle is ATVed back, or where throttle management is extensively used. (like in pattern ..)

The gear ratio for the V4 is 7.04:1

Brenner ...

PeterP

Hi Brenner,

Do you think the Kontronik 80+ HV is up to the task for our needs or would you go for the 120A version given the choice as I may consider one for my next ESC purchase. I have a TT which results in my Amp draw not exceeding 85A. I note the 80+ is the continuous rating ,I doubt I would go over 80A for more than 5-10 seconds during a F19 schedule.

Secondly, does the 10 pole offer any other significant benefit other than increase the ESC selection choice.

I have over 350 flights since upgrading to the new gear sets. The whole package is running superb and I couldn't be happier. The Kontronik motor appears bullet proof compared to the previous in-runner options of earlier versions. The ability to swing 23in props ticks the right boxes for me.

Thanks again for making this drive available.

Brenner

Hey Peter,

Unfortunately, I can't say yes with certainty because I haven't tried the Kontronik Jive 80 myself. I am going to be flying a Kontronik Jive 120 this year myself, and I didn't choose the Jive 80 specifically because I couldn't say for certain that it would work in my setup, and I wanted to play it safe.

It should work, especially if you use the optional heat sink, and you locate the ESC directly in the cold air coming into the nose of the plane. If I were in your shoes I would probably try it if I had the freedom of a new installation. Unfortunately, though, I can't give you a green light based on direct experience.

The 10 pole motor does have a slightly higher KV, which may, or may not, be an advantage. Other than that, it will behave the same as the 14 pole motor.

Brenner ...

PeterP

Thanks Brenner,

Did you end up purchasing the Jlog32? Interested to know how it will work with the Kontronik ESC. also

1) Does the Jive used fixed endpoints similar to the Jeti?
2) How does the "Brake" function compare to the Mezon?

Brenner

Hey Peter,

I bought the Kontronik telemetry adapter that works with the18MZ. I haven't installed my Jive yet because it's the middle of winter here in the Midwestern USA (We had -30 C temperatures here yesterday with windchill down to -40C..)

I will get it running when the weather warms up in the spring. I'll have answers then.

Brenner ...

rm

My Feedback: (27)

Jive endpoints are programmed via a jumper, use of the transmitter by moving the throttle stick through its range of motion while programming mode 1, and powering on and off of the esc. The jeti endpoints are programmed via settings made in the esc programming menu.