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-   -   Build thread BJ Craft Prolog V2 F3A Unlimited version (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/electric-pattern-aircraft-385/11385160-build-thread-bj-craft-prolog-v2-f3a-unlimited-version.html)

GeoffreyH 07-08-2013 04:00 PM

RE: Build thread BJ Craft Prolog V2 F3A Unlimited version
 


ORIGINAL: GeoffreyH

Hello fellow sportsmen.
I just wanted to post some picture of the Prolog that I built and have about 250 flights on now.
Mike Muiler was right,this is a great flying plane and Icould not be happy that Ibought it from F3A Unlimited.

mups53 07-17-2013 07:02 PM

RE: Build thread BJ Craft Prolog V2 F3A Unlimited version
 
1 Attachment(s)
We're officially back in stock and shipping the Prolog F3AUnlimited SE version ARF's and ARC's.
Mike

Jetdesign 07-17-2013 07:04 PM

RE: Build thread BJ Craft Prolog V2 F3A Unlimited version
 
Hey Mike, let me know if one happens to, uh, fall off the truck or something. I'm coming to Chicago this weekend (Friday/Saturday). Maybe we can meet up for a hot dog.

mups53 07-17-2013 07:10 PM

RE: Build thread BJ Craft Prolog V2 F3A Unlimited version
 
Got an ARC version that feel off the truck!!!
Let me know when you are in town. I'm off on Friday but leaving early on Saturday for the Nats.

DLEVETT 02-03-2014 05:17 PM

Hi Mike,

Is F3A Unlimited going to be at the Toledo Weak Signals show in April?
Itwould be great to see one in person before buying.
I'm presently looking at getting a new pattern plane after being away from them for quite some time and am
considering getting either the Nuance or the Prolog ARC.

thx
Dave

mups53 02-04-2014 02:18 AM

Yes Dave I won't have a booth but I will have stock if it's still available. I'm very low on a few items so who knows by April. Please just remind me and we can meet up. Thanks, Mike

DLEVETT 02-04-2014 05:14 PM

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the quick reply.
Ok. sounds good. I will contact you closer to the show.

thx
Dave

mups53 02-08-2014 06:57 AM

Guys it has come to my attention that this plane while a very smooth and capable flier may require the BJ Craft Stab fence's. The plane as many know is really great but these can actually make it fly better.

http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore...roducts_id=743

If you own the F3AUnlimited Version V2 and have not gotten these let me know. I'll send you a set free of charge but only if you bought the plane from us. Otherwise they are for sale at a minimal cost and I have enough to cover everything.
Any new Prologs sold will include a set of fences again free with purchase.
The Prolog V2 is a proven performer and a Nats winner and has proven to be the most popular plane we've sold in the last 12 months at F3Aunlimited.
Package deals are available and I still have a limited supply so give me a call and lets "get er done".
Thanks for all your support. Think warm it'll be spring soon.
Mike Mueller
F3AUnlimited.com and Gator-RC Products
[email protected]
800 591 2875

martair 12-06-2014 05:03 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Hi guys

I finally finished and flew my Prolog.
Here are some pics:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052603


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052604

Installation of the wires.
I put a brace between the 2 frames over the vent opening since the bottom of the fuse was very soft and wobbly.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052605

The installation of motor, ESC and Receiver/Batterie.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052606

Close up on the Receiver/Batterie tray.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052607

After the first flight the motor was at 78 deg C. A bit too high!
Then I made the air vents between the bolts that hold the rubber mounts much bigger.
Temp. is now 58 deg C! :-)


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052608

Here you can see that this fantastic spinner "pushes" the air thru to the motor (if it has enough room to do this ;-))

Flying the Prolog was a lot of fun. Very stable, tracks perfectly!
One thing I was hearing about this model was that the rudder is very sensitive, and it was proposed to slow down the speed of the servo!?
I cannot confirm this. To me, the rudder comes rather soft and predictable.
I even increased the deflection again after the first flight.

All in all I am very happy with the model!

As I said before, I am not flying competition. Do you guys think it would be a big improvement to have the DFTS wings for this model?
Since I also have a second canopy I am playing with the idea to instal the canalizer of the episode and see what this does to the model!?
Any opinions from the experts?

Cheers, Martin

AmericanSpectre505 12-06-2014 05:55 AM

I have flown the DTFS wings on the Nuance (with the stock stabs) and they work better with two wing fences out toward the tips (each wing, similar to AJ's plane). I found, as other FAI guy's have. That without the Episode winged canopy the missing square inches in the DTFS wings, relates to a faster paced sequence and the stall speed is not forgiving ( my experience). The snaps and spins are fantastic with the DTFS wings, no doubt.

I used stab fences and made wing fences and the Nuance did much better with tracking in and out, stall speed was helped and that equated to a slower flight envelope that locked lines. The stock wings are great for the AMA classes, not so good for FAI, very daggy compared to the DTFS wings. I spent an entire summer just experimenting with my Nuance until I was very happy with it. As, Indicated above..., the stab fences will help the Prolog too. All the BJ aircraft I have flown fly very good, like anything else, time needs to be spent on fine tuning them to your liking.

Regards,

Bill Holsten
Dist-2, 2009 FAI/F3A Champion.


Originally Posted by martair (Post 11932189)
Hi guys

I finally finished and flew my Prolog.
Here are some pics:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052603


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052604

Installation of the wires.
I put a brace between the 2 frames over the vent opening since the bottom of the fuse was very soft and wobbly.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052605

The installation of motor, ESC and Receiver/Batterie.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052606

Close up on the Receiver/Batterie tray.


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052607

After the first flight the motor was at 78 deg C. A bit too high!
Then I made the air vents between the bolts that hold the rubber mounts much bigger.
Temp. is now 58 deg C! :-)


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2052608

Here you can see that this fantastic spinner "pushes" the air thru to the motor (if it has enough room to do this ;-))

Flying the Prolog was a lot of fun. Very stable, tracks perfectly!
One thing I was hearing about this model was that the rudder is very sensitive, and it was proposed to slow down the speed of the servo!?
I cannot confirm this. To me, the rudder comes rather soft and predictable.
I even increased the deflection again after the first flight.

All in all I am very happy with the model!

As I said before, I am not flying competition. Do you guys think it would be a big improvement to have the DFTS wings for this model?
Since I also have a second canopy I am playing with the idea to instal the canalizer of the episode and see what this does to the model!?
Any opinions from the experts?

Cheers, Martin


martair 12-06-2014 08:30 AM

Hi Bill

Thanks a lot for your comments...appreciate!

I do have the stab fences. Just wanted to fly the model first to see the difference.
I am trying to dial that plane in right now. Unfortunately it is a bit windy at the moment here in Dubai, which makes it
almost impossible. Unless you really see what the model is doing, and not the wind, it's pointless to mess around
with things!?

How did you mount the stab fences? Did you remove the covering or did you just glue them in place on the covering?

Interesting that you put fences even on the wings!? How did that change the performance of the Nuance?
Do you have a picture of that?

Do you think it would be worth to try and instal a canalizer?

Regards Martin

mups53 12-06-2014 08:57 AM

I had any plane I wanted to fly this last summer. I flew an F3Aunlimited version Prolog.
It's a great plane. It doesn't have any bad traits just simple straight forward light well made good looking and affordable.
Some planes come and go quickly the Prolog has stood the test of time.
Good luck with it.
We have them in stock in 4 different versions
http://www.f3aunlimited.com/bj-craft...pecial-edition
http://www.f3aunlimited.com/bj-craft...ompetition-arf
Act now and I'll add free shipping.
Done in ARC or Contra retro fitted.
Mike
Mike Mueller

Dave Harmon 12-06-2014 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by martair (Post 11932269)
Hi Bill

Thanks a lot for your comments...appreciate!

I do have the stab fences. Just wanted to fly the model first to see the difference.
I am trying to dial that plane in right now. Unfortunately it is a bit windy at the moment here in Dubai, which makes it
almost impossible. Unless you really see what the model is doing, and not the wind, it's pointless to mess around
with things!?

How did you mount the stab fences? Did you remove the covering or did you just glue them in place on the covering?

Interesting that you put fences even on the wings!? How did that change the performance of the Nuance?
Do you have a picture of that?

Do you think it would be worth to try and instal a canalizer?

Regards Martin

Hi Martin.....

I use RC/56 Canopy glue which is Fletching glue (holds feathers on arrows) to glue on the fences.
it is removable and clear drying and not brittle...does not damage or mar the covering.
I've done 3 airplanes this way with the BJ Craft Fences...the airplanes were a Prolog, Nuance and a Gaudius....the fences help a lot.
Use the template that comes with the fences from F3A/Unlimited to install the fences pointing straight ahead.

mups53 12-06-2014 09:19 AM

I use the same thing Dave. It's bullet proof. Mike

AmericanSpectre505 12-06-2014 09:56 AM

Hey Martin,




Yeah.., I don't bother trimming in the wind either, CG I will, no mixing or wing adjustments. The stab fences can be mounted right over the covering with silicone (shoe goo.,RC56, I used a household sink/tub silicone that dries clear, be modest with the glue), and with a bit of heat from the heat gun you can carefully pull them off. Don't worry, they won't come off in the Dubai heat either.


Since, you are not flying competition with the Prolog, just experiment with it. I would try the Episode canopy, just remember the Episode has a taller Vertical stab. The Prolog and Nuance have a shorter one, so adding the canalizer may prove to cause more issues with tracking. However, you will probably be able to do some insane KE loops, LOL.


The one thing I did not do is save the pictures of my plane to my PC before I nuked my phone clean. The Nuance is currently getting a new refreshing look (new color scheme) and a change in covering. I have removed everything from the plane at this time. The wing fences are a half inch tall all the way around (top and bottom, they end at the trailing edge of wing) and I think the finial spacing was about 5 inches apart. I put the first one squared with the leading edge of the wing, just in front of the wing tip before it sweeps back on the DTFS wings. I ended up at 5 inches from that one with the second, inboard on the wing. Make them to big and it gets very draggy and affects the snaps. I also tried two stab fences on each side, one slightly smaller than the ones you can purchase from F3AU, didn't notice much of a difference with the stock wings at all. The DTFS wings with the wing fences and two stab fences were good, removed the second set and it seemed better, so I removed them permanently. It's all about how you fly and how you want a plane to feel to you.


The size I settled on proved to be the most effective with the least amount of compromise. Still snaps great, stops better, seemed to help with low speed tracking, landings were slower and more predictable (air channeled through the fences). My Nuance with the DTFS wings had a bad problem of just stalling without warning on landing, especially, if you side slipped it in the wind landing, calm days were even worse. Fairly fast landing plane with the DTFS wings or you had to work the throttle quite a bit landing. I have only flown a prolog, once and it flies very similar to the Nuance with the Nuance canopy. I believe the Prolog has a slightly different wing than the stock Nuance wing, maybe Mike can clarify that one?

Like this: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...7&d=1417883237



I essentially stopped flying for three years, due to travel for my job. When I can back the air frame's I had flown in 2008/2009 were not agile enough for the new K-6 FAI/F3A maneuvers. After struggling a bit with my setup. I flew one contest with the stock wings and spent the rest of the season experimenting, to learn the newer style air frames (didn't fly another contest). Never be afraid to experiment with in reason, it's an educational process. I will be back next season, my Nuance will be my back up, until I can afford another new air frame like the one I currently have.


BTW: I made my wing fences out of 8mm depron to experiment with first, attached them with Foamy hinge tape (tough to get off). When I got to the size I wanted. I glued carbon fiber to both side's, really strong and nice and light (really thin balsa sheeting will work too), apply silicon.


Good luck,


Bill



Originally Posted by martair (Post 11932269)
Hi Bill

Thanks a lot for your comments...appreciate!

I do have the stab fences. Just wanted to fly the model first to see the difference.
I am trying to dial that plane in right now. Unfortunately it is a bit windy at the moment here in Dubai, which makes it
almost impossible. Unless you really see what the model is doing, and not the wind, it's pointless to mess around
with things!?

How did you mount the stab fences? Did you remove the covering or did you just glue them in place on the covering?

Interesting that you put fences even on the wings!? How did that change the performance of the Nuance?
Do you have a picture of that?

Do you think it would be worth to try and instal a canalizer?

Regards Martin


nosram 02-01-2015 02:40 PM

I hope this thread is still alive.........?

I am just finishing up my Prolog, and about to mount the battery tray.

I would appreciate a heads-up as to where the CG should be?

BJ Craft suggest 260mm from the canopy rear corner, and Chris in this build thread suggests 285mm as a starting point.

Where have you guys finished up with your CG?

Thanks in advance,
Nick Marson

mups53 02-02-2015 05:37 AM

Hi Nick try the back edge of the wing tube. That's where I had mine.
The Prolog is still a very viable and popular seller. It's one of the best planes BJ Craft has ever produced. We still have them in stock ready for shipping.
Thanks and all the best. Mike Mueller

nosram 02-02-2015 07:08 AM

Hi Mike.

It sounds like you went closer to the 285mm that Chris stated. BJ's 260mm is way off the back of the tube, hence my question.

Thank you again Mike,
Nick Marson

mups53 02-02-2015 03:51 PM

Yes good that you asked. It'd fly okay at BJ's suggestion I just prefer it being a little more forward. I really think you will like the plane Nick.
Mike

Smooth Pilot 02-02-2015 08:25 PM

Stepping up your game a little are you Nick? I may have to put the Vanquish up and concentrate more on using the Episode to try and catch up with you now. LOL

Sheldon

nosram 02-03-2015 08:47 PM

Hi Sheldon,
I hope so, the Vanquish didn't float..........:rolleyes: Besides I need to do something to try and beat you guys.

Mike,
Did you install the fences on the elevator? I don't recall seeing any at the Cajun Nats last year.........
Thanks,
Nick

mups53 02-04-2015 06:53 AM

Hi Nick the stab fences are a good idea but not on the elevators. Just the horizontal stab part that is stationary.
Mike

nosram 02-04-2015 01:20 PM

Thank Mike,
My bad, I meant what you said...............

nosram 02-16-2015 09:26 AM

Mike,

Thank you very much for all of your help. I maidened the Prolog yesterday, with your C.G recommendation. I'm using the new Himax 6330PRO motor on 20.5x14.
The plane is fantastic, extremely smooth. Inverted 45° is pretty good, maybe can move CG back a hair. No left rudder coupling, about -1.0% mix needed with right rudder. The vertical downline is also just about spot on.
The new Himax is smoother and more powerful that the previous one, downloading the CC log I saw just over 3000 watts!!
Thank you once again Mike,

Nick Marson

mups53 02-18-2015 03:08 AM

Good news Nick
I just love the Prolog for so many reasons. It's an easy airplane to trim and very straight forward. There are few planes that are better for Masters on down.
3000 watts seems a little high although it is not hurting anything. I would dial it down on the throttle curve a tad Nick. You might also want to consider adding a Tech-Aero Throttle Tech at sometime.
The Himax 210Pro never fails to perform. It's got it all at an affordable price.
Now it's time to enjoy the plane. You'll find little things here and there that make it better. At least you have a good start.
All the best, Mike


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