cptsnoopy

I tried my brothers trex-600 today and had trouble with the tail not holding well enough to fly. The problem turned out to be one of the outer tail blade grip bearings (8x3x3mm) It was coming apart from the force of the blade pulling outward. That caused the pitch system to get very hard to move and the gyro/servo just could not overcome it. I replaced both outer tail blade grip bearings with the main blade grip bearing from a trex-450xl (8x4x3mm). This means that you get a stronger bearing in the tail blade grip but the 3mm allen screw that holds it on threads 1mm less into the tail hub. I checked to see if that was a problem and it appears that there is plenty of threads going into the tail hub. Somewhere around 6 to 8mm worth.
I would recommend that everyone keep an eye on the tail grip bearings and watch for failure.

MadDogRC

PICS/VIDS OR BAN!!![>:] WE THE GENERAL PUBLIC DEMAND TO SEE THE HELICOPTER IN FLIGHT AS WE ALL WANT TO BUY ONE!!! haha

seriously that thing is gonna rock!!!!

cptsnoopy

I would have been happy to post a video of my brothers while I tried to maiden it but it looked like I did not know how to fly...

actually, I did not have the video camera that day as I came straight from the airport to my brothers house to try it out...

credence, how are those batteries coming along? After the attempts at flying my brothers, I am thinking I will go with 6 2100's since these are the 16C batts and we ran out of juice pretty quickly.

credence

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Just got my order in, should be here next week some time. Been busy lately preparing for the launch of our website!

cptsnoopy

Hi credence,

I got to try the trex again tonight after dark so I did not get to do much more than hover and small pop-ups. The tail control was normal and snappy after fixing the bearing. The Trex feels light with only 4 11.1v 2100mah batts in it and it responded well in the short pop-ups. I am not using gov mode on the esc. I think I set the curve at 95-85-95 and the pitch is at +10/-10 or just a tad over that. I plan on adding two more of the 11.1v 2100mah batteries to get 8+ minute flight times if the motor can pull the extra weight. For now we are running a headspeed of approx 1850 under hover load (because we don't have the new blade grips yet). I did not hear any bogging when popping up but it was such short duration that we will need to test it in more extended loads to be sure. Bottom line is that you're gonna love it!

credence

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I'm aiming for about 8 minutes flight time. I don't plan on cranking the headspeed either untill I can get some aluminum grips. Not that i'd want to push my luck with the wood aerotech blades anyways. They should be a bit more efficent than carbon blades though, so hopefully that will help reduce the motors workload.
I've got two 4400 mAh 3S2P 12-18C packs coming. They may be a bit toasty after the flight but I think they'll hold up. I don't think they helicopter will draw more than 50A in hover.

I don't have any plans on using the governor either (atleast initially).

Glad to hear that yours is flying atleast! I'm getting depressed looking at mine sitting on the shelf!

MadDogRC

whats gov mode? or what modes are there and what do they do? also whats a good transmitter setup for the pitch and all? is +/-10 good for the balde pitch? and could you guys try out a couple of throttle curves to see which is the best so that i wont need to spend hours settiong up my transmitter and accidently screwing sumthing up because i set the wrong setting.

thanks guys and we cant wait to see ur first flights. it dont matter if u cant fly, we just luv watching crashes!




hope you dont crash ur new heli

cptsnoopy

It is a mode that you can select on some electronic speed controllers that will maintain a constant rpm even though the air load on the rotor blades is changing all the time.
The align controller has both the standard fixed throttle mode and governor mode, you can select which one you want to use. It has been reported that the align gov mode does not give as high a headspeed as the fixed throttle mode so most people that I have read about are not using the gov mode. if you don't use the gov mode then you will need to set a throttle curve for your helicoptor. This means that as you increase pitch on the rotor blades, you increase your throttle to keep the rpm constant.

I don't know what a good setup is yet until we get to fly on a nice calm day with good daylight. That way we can test the throttle/pitch curves to see if they best meet our needs for the kind of flying we are doing. So far I have heard that +/-10 degrees is about the maximum that the motor can handle without serious bogging. If you have better batteries or a better motor you may be able to increase the pitch but don't exceed +/-13 as I have heard that any more than that is a waste. (I don't know that for a fact though) When I do figure out a good throttle/pitch curve I will post it but since I am using different batteries than most folks are using, my curves may end up a little different.

I wish I could have video'd tonights flight but it was too dark for filming. (at least with my camera)




me too!

MadDogRC

and wot did snoopy mean by 95-85-95 ?

cptsnoopy

Using a digital transmitter you have settings you can adjust and normally they are in % of travel. for some transmitters 0% is as far one way as you can go and 100% is as far the other way from center that you can go with 50% being the middle. My JR8103 is like that. When I get a new heli or power system in an older heli setup to run for the first time I set the transmitter to show what % of output travel it is telling the throttle to hold. Then I have someone else use an optic tachometer and while I slowly spin the blades faster and faster they tell me how fast the blades are spinning. When I get to the desired rotor blade speed, I look at the transmitter to see what % throttle travel on the transmitter is giving me the desired speed of the rotor blades. I remember that number and then shut down and unplug the batteries from the heli. Then I set the transmitter throttle curve to give me the desired speed by setting the % throttle travel as the low point (at the 1/2 throttle stick position) and I set a curve that goes from that point to a higher %throttle travel point as the near the ends of the stick travel because there will be an increase of blade pitch commanded also and the motor will need more power to compensate for the higher blade load.

on my 8103 I have 5 positions I can set. Low, 2, 3, 4, high these represent positions from idle through max throttle. I also have three flight mode settings that can use different throttle settings for each. these are call (on the JR8103) norm, st1, st2 I start flying in norm mode, this lets me have the motor stopped for plugging and unplugging the batteries before and after flight. my modes st1 and st2 are set the same. They have max desired throttle at the low positsion and the high position and a slightly lower desired throttle setting in the middle, hence the name, throttle curve.
so, for example my normal throttle curve for takeoff, landing and being able to stop the motor/rotor blades is.
norm: 0%, 2: 85% 3: 85%, 4: inh, high: 95%. you could use this setting all day long if you did not plan on doing acro or inverted flight.

for acro or inverted it is nice to be able to utilize your negative pitch that is available. to do this you need the motor producing the same power/pitch values as you did for normal flight with positive pitch. so my st1 and st2 flight mode settings are:
low: 95%, 2: inh, 3: 85%, 4: inh, high: 95%. now, if you go upside down during a manuever and you want to support the heli while inverted you just lower the throttle stick to what would normally be idle and the transmitter will output a command to increase power on the motor to keep the blades spinning at the correct speed.

All of the above settings are matched to rotor blade pitch changing along with the throttle changes. that is another similar setting in the transmitter called pitch curve.

If your transmitter has "exponential" capabilities then they should be turned on for the settings that I show. This allows a smoother transition between the setting points low, 2, 3, 4, and high for each flight mode.

MadDogRC

hi,
is the trex 600 setup as a:

90 degrees CCPM swash plate type?

or a

120 degrees CCPM swash plate type?

i just cant get the heli on the reflex xtr sim to work with the 3 servos swashplate. all the happens is that when i apply throttle the heli goes rolls forward when throttle is applied.

credence

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120 degree.

iceman101

Overdosed - Set your TX to Normal/non-CCPM mixing. XTR does not work with CCPM mixing or with the TX set to PCM transmision.


BTW: Where did you get a T-rex 600 model for XTR?

ICE

credence

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I'd love to see one for AFPD

MadDogRC

got any vids or pics of it in the air?

credence

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I've hit a snag . I've got my batteries now but my tail servo needs replacement (it was old anyways). I've got a new S9254 on the way.

I promise i'll try to get the vids up as soon as I can get this thing into the air. Cptsnoopy has managed to get his into the air, maybe bug him for some videos..

MadDogRC

Just a question, would having faster cyclic servos be better? arent your cyclic servos like 0.17s/60 degrees? would a 0.14s/60 degrees be better?

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Depends on your flying style I guess. If you're into snappy movements then yes, faster servos will give you quicker overall response. I'm not a hard 3D flyer by any stretch of the imagination so extremely quick cyclic servos is of no big concern to me. More just into basic, clean sport aerobatics with enough snap to get me out of hairy situations.
At anyrate, since the BEC provides 6V, my cyclic response will be 14 ms, not 17 with the servos I chose.

Just remember that not all servos (like the S9254 on the tail) like 6 volts. That's why Align provides you with a 5.1 volt regulator that you attach inline with the tail servo to keep from toasting it.

cptsnoopy

Ok, I managed to find a moment and get some video posted. I also have a screen shot of the DPR100 data but I am not sure if it is the same flight. It is from the same helicoptor configuration though. This is my brother flying his Trex-600.

[link=http://media.putfile.com/Trex-600-001]Trex-600_001[/link] (putfile.com)

credence

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Nice video Charlie! Thanks for that . Looking at your graph it looks like your voltage remained consistent almost all the way through even after 7 minutes of flight. Looks like you only dipped to about 21 volts. Those batteries sound like they're taking it well. I'm thinking my 4400 mah not be enough to use safely. I may connect another two 2200 mAh packs in parralel. I see even in mild flying you peaked 65 amps. I've read of others hitting nearly 80 in quick climbs and toasting the ESC!. Sounds like the rex could really benefit from higher voltage to get the amp draw down.

Well, i'll find out soon enough!

cptsnoopy

The only sad part is now that it is flying good, I get to watch... I don't want to be the guy flying if it's time has come up!

credence

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Finally got this baby airborne! I gotta say, i'm completely blown away by this helicopter. The sound and the power on a measely 6 cells is incredible. It's incredibly smooth in it's movement. So far it's tracking PERFECTLY. With the two 4400 mAh packs the balance is excellent requiring almost 0 trim. I finished dialing in the tail on my first pack, which is holding extremely well now. None of the problems that you've thus far encountered Charlie, though i'm gonna keep my eyes open for them. Even the voltage regulator is working fine . Once my packs are charged i'm going to adjust the tracking (which looks to be pretty darn close too). Will have to attach my tach to the bird and check out the headspeeds. I'm just using the suggested 70% at mid they said in the manual to start. The batteries were only mildly warm after the flight, so that's a good sign so far. Granted, I was only hovering. We'll see how they do after a few circuits.

Once i've got this thing trimmed out, i'll try to get a video for you guys aslong as the camera is willing to cooperate .

Just curious, what pitch range are you using? I noticed the T-rex has a huge pitch range if you don't limit it (I think it was near 14 or 15 degrees?!). I put it a -10 +10. Just a bit over what they suggest in the manual since i've seen most guys seem to suggest this over +9 and -9.

So far i'm impossibly happy with this thing. Gonna need to get a headbutton for it on my next trip to the hobby shop though .

MadDogRC

all these lipos and amp draw stuff and all is sounding really complicated to me. i dont know if i should get this heli or not and also i cant afford to buy another lipo pack. maybe i should just go with the 1:5 23cc truck in the shop but i just really like this heli.

cptsnoopy

Hi Daniel,

I am glad to see that you got it in the air! It is a kick in the pants for sure.

I was using +10/-10 with 6s-2p but I increased it to +12/-12 with the 6s-3p setup. We are running 100/81/100 for the throttle curve. That maintains about 1800-1850rpm. If we ever get our new blade grips, I am considering increasing the midpoint to 89% and that should hold closer to 2000rpm but I won't know for sure until I tach it at the higher %. I am also glad to hear that all items in the kit are working well. We probably just got the only two bad parts in the lot... Now, if I did not already have a ton of Raptor 50 parts...

mavdriver

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excellent report guys , I`m getting close to buying the 600