jauguston

If your gyro requires a digital servo and you hook up a analog servo to it the servo will get hot quick and then die. Don't ask how I know (-:

Jim

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

Hi All :=}
Has anyone talked to crashcrash,it's been a long time since he has been on here.
Anyway, what kind of time should I be able to get using a 2200 30C 3 cell lipo using a Scorpion 2221-8 3690 kv motor with a 11 tooth pinion.
I was just doing hovering with a heavy home built traning gear and was only getting 3 minutes, so I toke it off.
I still only get 3:30 minutes and this is doing forward flight, not to fast but fast enough that it should help the air flow, but it never got warm even when hovering, also I'm using a 60amp HobbyWing OPT- ESC with a 5amp ubec.
I have the pitch at 8 degree's, it only pulled 29amps with 11 degree's and holding it down on the table and 18amps at full 8 degree at full throttle.
I would think, that I would get 7 to 8 minutes and I have tried setting the gear mash with the paper and it still don't help .

Anyone got any idea's ??????????????
Thanks
joe1

crashcrash

Something is really WRONG. I can run a stock EXI-450 with 11T pinion, 3800kv motor, 40a ESC, 2200mah 20c battery and pull 11 minuets safely, I've gotten over 14 min sometimes. Running the above, you shouldn't ever have a heat issue either. I'm no expert but I think your battery is TOAST....that sux guy.

Look at your belt tension as well....

jauguston

Something is seriously messed up. I have a 2221-8 w/12t pinion and 2200ma 25CZippy batteries. I have two EXI 450's setup the same way. I have my flight timer set for 6 1/2 minutes and generally replace about 1800ma. I have a 30a Exceed RCESC in one and a 40a Exceed RC ESC in the other. Nothing is hot after hover and gentle sport flying.

Jim

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

Hello CrashCrash :=}
I have 6 new 2200 30 C packs that I broke in according to the caring for lipo's post.
They all are from ValueHobbies and they take 1600 to 1700 mah's after I leave them sit for a couple of hours before charging again.
The only other thing I can really think of, is that these packs are very over rated.
I can not find anything wrong with the heli, I've been over it again & again.
I've even tried flying it with 10 degree's of pitch and I still get the same amount of time, which it should be less being it is drawing more amps .
I have also changed the pinion gear to 12 and 13 and I get less :={{{

jauguston

joe1,

Changing the maximum pitch available will have no real effect unless you are flying at full collective all the time and I seriously doubt you are. You only apply as much pitch as it takes to lift and fly the heli.

There is for sure something your missing. You will find it.

Jim

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

Hello Jim :=}
I don't know what it could be, I've checked and set the tail belt tension , it's got new main gear and tail main gear along with new oneway bearing and every thing else that I mention before.
The only thing that I can think of is the lipo's came from a bad batch ????? and Alex sure will not replace them because it has been to long.
I bought them early spring and checked the voltage of each cell , then stored them until late summer.
I will have to buy another pack some where, is there any place in the USA that sales the zippy packs ???

jauguston

Can you borrow a pack from someone just for a test?

You are using the same ESC and UBEC I am using in my 500 with a Scorpion 3026-1400. I get 6 1/2 minutes with a Zippy2650 25c and put back not much over 2000 ma.

Something wierd is going on - butI guess you already know that (-:

If you are out of battery after 3 1/2 minutes and your batteries are not bad something should be on the verge of smoking to consume all that energy.

Jim

crashcrash

Joe...before you blame the batteries, check to see if one of your servos are getting warm or HOT....I've had it happen where it overdraws the system. Possibility of ESC being bad, RX being bad, any number of things to check.....even the motor being bad and overdrawing. Check everything tied to that RX one by one. I think you've pretty well covered the mechanical side...I'm sure it's electrical, and possibly NOT the batteries.

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

crashcrash :
I did change the motor and esc, if you recall I had asked you if a 300 HDX-4200kv motor with a 10 tooth pinion and 40 amp esc was to small for a 450 and that I was only getting 4 minutes.
You said it would be ok, but you were getting 10 to 12 with a Align 3500kv and a 2100mah 20C pack.
So that's when I bought this set up I'm running now, I'm not really trying to blame the lipo's but it just don't make any since!!
Now I have not tried another receiver but it seems to work great, I have never had a receiver draw more power and still work but again theres always the first time.
Oh by the way, I have changed all the servo's also, because I wanted MG servo's and I've known about servo's doing that a long time ago, I have flown planes for over 20 years :=}

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

I can not borrow one, because I fly by myself now, and the club field that I use to belong too is 25 miles away and most of the time no one is there.
I use to have a list of members and their phone numbers, but I lost it 4 years ago during my moving here.

crashcrash

OK...this is gonna be a hunt and peck situation. Order a new battery (2200/20c minimal), see if that takes care of it. If NOT, you're gonna have to replace components till you find it. When I ran a 3800kv motor/40a ESC/11T pinion/2200/20c batts, I was getting 11 minuets of safe time and I could push it to 12-14min from time to time. Even if your servos are all new, don't mean they're not possibly bad...I've seen it happen and it really can be irritating. The motor, same deal, it can be new and be bad, but not bad enough not to run. There's no silver bullet to troubleshooting these helicopters, it's one component at a time. Prefrable that you have spare motor, ESC, servos, so you can test on the bench but sometimes, that's not practical because of cost. If you get the same results with different batteries...it's not battery.

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

Ok, it's back to the drawing board again, but I just did a test with my Hi-Power Stryker Plane and tested one pack.
I put a big fan blowing cool air on the motor,esc and the lipo in the plane, I then gave it throttle to get it pulling 20 amps continous and had a timer set at 6 minutes.
At 1700mah's the voltage was at 10.5 volts and the time of run was 4 minutes and 10 seconds, so that makes the heli pulling around 22 amps in a hover and a little less in forward flight.

babyhuey

What is the voltage of the packs after full charge? If it's less than 4.2 per cell your charger isn't working correctly.
I don't mean to disagree with Crash but if you have a servo pulling enough power to cut your run time in half you would probably have BEC cutouts and or a fire before you would see that run time!

crashcrash

LMAO...Huey...it's alright to disagree. I cant understand why anyone would get 4 minuets using a 2200/20c when I get 11 to 13 flying a stock EXI. It's either battery, or a component, maybe more than one component at one time.

babyhuey

You may be right but he is losing an incredible amount of power somewhere! It should be showing up as heat too!

crashcrash

Yeah....I know. When I had servos overdrawing, they got warm (hot?) but it's something you really dont suspect and dont check physically. When people tell you things on a forum, you don't really get the whole picture so it's HARD to help. His ESC may be getting very warm, and the motor too, but he thinks it's normal to get a little warm so he don't mention it. You are right, loosing that much has to translate to heat someplace unless it's just a bad battery. That's why I said to use a new battery first, then go from there. Right now, I got a bad gyro. The tail shifts from left to right to left continously through the flight. Another symtom is slow reaction on punch out and shorter flight times. I checked the rudder servo, it's good (dont chatter on a tester). I got a Dynam G48Y on order, I heard they're excellent and rate right up there with the G-401 by Futaba. I guess I'll find out Fri/Sat when it gets here. In the mean time, I'm building a Concept Models 1/4 scale Fleet 1932 biplane day by day. Wow....that kit is a BEAR. The plans are very marginal, the supplied materials for making struts stink (made my own...much stronger). This plane will run me about $600 when built. It'll turn a 22" propeller off a 50cc gasoline engine, it keeps me busy for sure. The TOUGH part is lining up the top and bottom wings to be correct....working on that part now.

babyhuey

Be sure that you let us know how that gyro works out. I'm looking at a FBL unit from HC that is supposed to be as good as a VBar but I don't know if it is worth screwing around with the computer part of the setup. Also can't make up my mind if I should put it on the Protos or the Stinger 50! LOL

jauguston

crashcrash,

I hope you are happier with your G48Y than I was. I got back into helis about two years ago after a 30 year lapse since I last flew them. Over time I ended up with two EXI 450's and a EXI 500. Being green I read the G48Y was a good inexpensive gyro so I ended up with three of them. As I was trying to relearn what I used to be pretty good at I just wasn't happy with the gyro. I bought a Quark. Unbelievable improvement!! I now have three of them driving Hitec HS 5084 MG digital servos, the one on the 500 on 6v. Quark requires a digital servo but I already had the 5084s with the G48Y's. I now also have Flymentors on all three.

Jim

joe1

My Feedback: (9)

Hello babyhuey :=}
The packs charge back up to 12.60 volts and I have a timer set for 4:00 minutes and they usually take 1700 to 1800 mah's back to full charge.
I don't have anything getting warm other then the lipo packs but just a slight warm.
I asked another member on this thread through a PM about my esc setup, but did not get a reply back.
I have a HobbyWing 60 amp opto esc that has three wires coming out going to the receiver and then a seperate UBEC that supplies power to the receiver, my question is being the ubec powers the receiver why is there a red wire from the esc going to the receiver, if I'm right that red wire is also supplying power, which makes both power sources being stepped down by the esc ????? and if so that would sure use allot of voltage/amps.
I toke the red wire out to see if I would get more time, but the weather has been bad.

crashcrash

G48Y....I've been told by a few people how great they are. I guess like anything else, you can get a bad one. I guess I'll find out but at $18 shipped, it's hard to pass it up and if it turns out as good as I've been told, I'll be happy like a pig in slop.

babyhuey

How is the flymentor to setup?

babyhuey

joe1,

Do you have your belt really tight? That is the only other place that I can think of that you could lose that much power. You can also try lubing the belt with WD40 or silicone.

crashcrash

LMAO...I brought up belt tension earlier. Other possibilities are bad bearings in the tail rotor system or on the main shaft.....I've seen that before but the heat issue related to bearings go right to the motor and ESC.

jauguston

Huey,

If you attempt to setup a Flymentor using the provided instructions I suppose it is possible to get one to work but it is unlikely. That said if you go over to helifreak.com and find the Flight Stabilization Forum there is a fellow there named Ivor. He is a fine patient English gentleman that knows Flymentors better than anyone around and the best part he is willing to walk you through the setup. Another fellow 250 is also helpful.They spent three days helping me get my first one working properly and once I understood how to do it it took about a hour to setup my second and third one. The printed instructions that come with it SUCK!! On the other hand the FM is great. You can dial in as much help as you want and if you put the sensitivity control on a slider you can change it in flight.
It will NOT fly the heli for you. I leave mine set in position mode all the time. When you get 10-15' above the groundit will automatically switch to stabilization mode and switch back to position mode again when you drop down below that height. For the best operation you need a 7 channel radio. It can be done with 6 but 7 is better. The tail gyro is about the same as one of the $20.00 gyros. I don't use it I us Quarks. Unless things have changed since i did mine you need a computer running XP for the setup software to work right. There is also now available a hand held field programmer that can do the setup as well as changingsettings at the field but it is about $45.00. When doing the setup you need to gothe first page and complete everything on that page before starting on the next page. If you jump around from page to page during setup you are scr**ed (-: The first job is to get all three cyclic servos to go up and down together with the collective control. Don't worry if the cyclic stick doesn't move things the right way at this point. You will fix that on the next page. Before you start set your transmitter mode to heli one servo and zero all the trim and sub-trim and no servos reversed. This should get you sort of started and from here ask on the helifreak Flight Stabilization Forum for more help. I will try to help also but Ivor is the real guru.

Jim