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A10 dissapointment

Old 09-03-2003, 02:04 PM
  #1  
rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

Well I flew my A-10 the other day and I have some questions for you fellows. First of all I bought two 7.2 volt 400 milliamp packs for it. This is my first foray into electric of any kind. I was highly disappointed with the flight duration, and I think that it is due to the battery pack. The thing just plain ran out of juice in about a minute and a half. The flight characteristic were about what I had expected from the small motors. My question is can I get larger battery packs that will fit into the same space as the ones that I bought? The pack that I bought fits just right in the compartment. The cells look like they are 1/2A size. If I can do better with the packs can anyone put me on to a site that sells these packs.
Thanks
Rich
Old 09-03-2003, 02:39 PM
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cwat212
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Default A10 dissapointment

Is it a GWS A-10?

If you want to stay with a 6 cell 7.2v pack then get a pack with a higher MAH rating.

You can try a 7 cell (8.4volts) or 8 cell (9.6volts) pack and you should see increased performance. Just make sure your ESC can handle the extra amps.

I have bought packs from www.allerc.com I am very happy with the packs and the service was great.

Check their packs - All the pack dimensions are listed and you can get one close to the size of the ones you have now.

I use the 9.6 v 650mah Nimh in my GWS Zero. Awesome. They are 2/3 AA.

Hope this helps a little.
Old 09-03-2003, 03:01 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

cwat,
Yes it is a GWS A-10. From what I gather from some of the other posts if you go over 8 volts you will burn out the motors. They are really small. I will go to the site that you recomended and check it out .
Rich
Old 09-03-2003, 03:09 PM
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cwat212
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Default A10 dissapointment

how does it fly on 7.2 volts? I am about to buy this kit.
Old 09-03-2003, 03:19 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

This is my first electric, and I would be no judge of it's performace. I can tell you this though, I coulden't get it more than about ten or twelve feet in the air. I could not get enough air speed to build up to get it to go up very far. speed wise I would guess that it went about twenty MPH if that
Old 09-03-2003, 03:22 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

Oh i went to the site that ou recomended and all that I saw was a 300 milliamp pack in the 7.2 volt range.
Old 09-03-2003, 03:24 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

I am on afternon turn and have to get going to work( now there is a four letter word). Will be back on tonight after work.
Old 09-03-2003, 05:39 PM
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rdeis
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Default A10 dissapointment

I don't have one, but most reports say its very underpowered at 7.2V. All-up weight appears to be critical to flight performance, so you might try Li-Poly batteries.

Most reports that I've seen who were happy with it had 8 or 9 cells. heat-sinks on the motors, and frequently lubricated the shaft.

GWS is planning to release an updated kit with larger motors, but hasn't given a release date.

Here are some tips:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...=&goto=newpost]
Old 09-03-2003, 06:17 PM
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skyhawknut
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Default A10 dissapointment

It flies ok on the GWS 6 cell 600 nicad. For slightly better preformance the GWS 7 cell 720 nimh pack is good, But I made a 7 cell nicad pack from N700AAC cells and it goes real good for a parkflier jet, weighs 17.5 oz with the 7 cell. Nicads give a little more punch.
The problem with going over 8.4 volts is the GWS packs have a fairly high internal resistance (I.R.) and when they recommend a certain voltage - they are using their packs. So when guys put some other cell in there that has a lower ir they burn out the motors and say "What happened, I was in the recommended voltage?" LIke I said - the best is the 7 cell nicad.
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Old 09-04-2003, 04:09 AM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

skyhawk,
Where can I get my hands on these GWS cells? Do you have a site you can put me onto to get these packs?
Old 09-05-2003, 07:15 PM
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akeyzoo
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Default My A10 Solution

RPAT. I am no expert, and have limited experience, but have found a solution that works great for me. First of all, this is what I have tried:

7.2V 350 mAh Battery (nicd) - Could climb once, descended and could't get more that 10 feet off the ground again. Eeks.

7.2V 600 mAh Battery (nicd) - Slightly better performance than above, but flight time of about 5 minutes before she became dangerously unfly-able. The bird stall easily, speed is your friend.

9.6v 720 mAh Batter (nimh) - Good performance, ran at 80% throttle after takeoff due to my concern over high voltage. Plane flew better....but I wasn't totally impressed...

7.2V 2100mAh Thuner Power LiPoly - WOW, great performance. Flies for over 20 minutes before I chicken out and land (ESC set too low, dont want to overdrain pack). I did some measurements and found something weird!!! My current draw is MORE with the LiPoly at 7.2V than my nimh at 9.6V!!! (7.75A MAX)


Sooo, I now love and impress folks with my A10 on LiPoly. I couldn't see myself going back. Combine the huge storage for long flights with lighter weight, and the plane is now happy.

I know this wasn't a cheap solution, but it is what works for me. BTW, my A10 has no wheels and I threw on a relatively heavy coat of paint. I mean honestly, I didn't buy the plane for anything other than looks!!!

Chris
Old 09-06-2003, 04:59 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

Chris,
The whole set up if you ask me was set more for looks that performance. The motors are so punny that it is almost sad. I did read that they are going to come out with larger motors for it. I hope that we can retro fit them to the ones that we bought. I also did not mount the gear, and when the thing ran out of juice I had to bring it down and tore off one of the wing tips. not bad it just tore off the drooped edge.
Where did you get your Lipollys at? if you got them off of the net please give me the site that I can go to.
Thanks
Rich
Old 09-06-2003, 06:33 PM
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akeyzoo
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Default A10 dissapointment

RPAT,
Got my batteries and charger from aeromicro.com. Perry there can hook you up. They have a retail store that I went to, but I know most of his business is mail order.

FWIW, I have spoken with people that have put bigger motors on with little gain. Perry actually has one with 01 brushless motors in it, and one of his other customers have tried the 5 blade motor. Little increase.

FWIW, I just broke mine in half....gotta get out the epoxy. Was landing and gave too much elevator, man she is pitch sensitive....anyways, stalled at 3 feet off the deck and when I came down I broke the fuselage off right in front of the bamboo...


CYA, Chris.
Old 09-06-2003, 08:36 PM
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rpat
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Default A10 dissapointment

Chris,
I think that the thing is pitch sensitive also. I only halfheartedly balanced mine so may be the thing really needs to be balanced right. I just got that balancing machine from Great Planes. I helped a new guy out at the field the other day and he had one with him, it is a nice piece of equipment, so before I do fly it again I am going to make sure that it balances.
Rich
Old 09-06-2003, 11:00 PM
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skyhawknut
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Default A10 dissapointment

Make sure you balance it at the AFT edge of the recommended range!
Old 09-06-2003, 11:06 PM
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Default A10 dissapointment

http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/serv...tResultCount=9

Try this for the battery. It will fly at 15.5 oz at sea level with the 7.2 volt 600 pack. Even better is the 8.4 volt 720 nimh pack. Whatever you use, balance at the back of the recommended range!
Old 09-06-2003, 11:13 PM
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Default A10 dissapointment

http://www.batterystation.com/nicads.htm

But like I said - the best setup I used was 7 cell 700 mah nicad. Try the above link and look for N700AAC. They will build you a pack for 5 bucks extra and i think a jst connector installed is 3 bucks. Good service from these guys. My all up weight with the 7 cell nicad is 17.5 oz and it flies like it's on rails. Original motors have 20 6 min flights and they are still going. I would go with lipolys but my funds won't allow a new charger and the cost of cells. Besides there are still too many horror stories for my own comfort! Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Old 09-08-2003, 03:23 PM
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BillPTC
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Default RE: My A10 Solution

What was the configuation of the Lipoly batteries??. Have you burned up the motor or is it still going strong.??
Bill
Old 09-09-2003, 04:54 PM
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akeyzoo
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

2S1P Thunder Power 2100 mAh. Works great, motors still going strong. This solution was much better than even 8 cell 720 mAh nimh (which is 2.2V higher).

BTW, motors should last longer with LiPoly than with 7 cell, which is higher voltage. These things Kick-@$$. I am totally hooked on lipoly. Flew my moth on a etech 1200 2s1p pack I just bouth. Flew for 45 minutes and only used 30 percent of the pack!!!!!!!

Chris
Old 09-10-2003, 08:48 AM
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BillPTC
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

Thanks for the quick input. Talked to another and they use the 2s1p (1200) for the A-10 with good results. Additionally they also used the 2S2P pack (2400mAh!) pack for extended times on the A-10 and for the GWS Corsair with the 350 motor and 10x8 prop. Thanking about 2s1p for A-10 and then double up for the corsair.
If I used the 2S1P Thunder Power 2100 mAh also on the corsair would this be the same as the 2s2p 2400. Trying to get the most out of and the less expense and still do the job. I am totally new to these batteries.
Bill
Old 09-10-2003, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

I have been flying my A10 for quite some time with 7 cell 700mAh Nimh pack and doing the recommended oiling of the motors. It is no speed demon and does not do crosswind landings well. I wouldn't hold my breath on the new EDF 55 fans from GWS. They will come for sure but probably later than sooner. BTW I have two micro fans and speed 300's waiting for my EDF 50's to quit. Must be good luck charms, the EDF 50's are doing great with 20 plus flights on them.
Old 09-10-2003, 12:53 PM
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akeyzoo
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

Bill,
Re li-poly packs.

I am surprised that someone is running the 2s1p 1200 mAh packs in the A-10. That bird pulls almost 8A, which exceeds the specs for discharge of that pack (7.2A MAX). With the money people spend on li-poly packs, seems "less than prudent" to push them that hard.

FWIW I have two li-poly packs, the TP 2100 2s1p and an e-tech 2s1p 1200. I run the 1200 in my TIGER MOTH!!!!! I would never think of running it in the A10 for fear of seriously affecting it's longevity. My Crazy Max pulls about 7.5A, so I only run the 2100 in it as well.....

Chris
Old 09-10-2003, 07:08 PM
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rpat
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

Oh by the way ....how do you guys oil the bearings on this bird? can you take the fans off to do it or do you use a special tool to get around the back of the fans. if they do come off how is that done?
Rich
Old 09-11-2003, 08:16 AM
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BillPTC
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

Chris;
I did not realize that bird pulled those Amps. May need to get a meter if I stay with small electrics. Looked at specs and it said 3.4 amp x 2 for 6.8amps. I am using a GWS 300 ESC which is 8amp continuous. I better watch it.
What is the average size poly pack for a speed 400 motor. Do you use a 400 6 v or a 400 7.2v motor.
Bill
Old 09-26-2003, 12:48 AM
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Default RE: A10 dissapointment

I gotta add my 2 cents worth to this thread. I have a GWS A10 which has gone thru 4 "stock" motors on 7 1100ma nicads. The brushes were the failure on all 4 motors. I went the High dollar route and put in the Astro Flight 010 brushless/WeMoTec fan combinations ($150 each from Astro Flight). These install with very little modification since the WeMoTec fan unit is the same size as the GWS unit. I flew initially with the same 1100ma NiCd packs and was somewhat disapointed with performance (flying weight is now 23 oz). These motors are 1" dia compared to the approx 3/8" dia of the GWS motors and upon reflection I realized I needed to add a fairing tube on the back of the motor to hold a constant cross section (actually slightly tapering down) thru the nacelle. Smooth flow is essential in ducted fans! I was amazed at the increase in performance with that mod only. I can now do loops from a slight dive and 2 rolls before things get sloppy due to loss of airspeed. Aerobatic flight time is 8 minutes at full throttle! These motors can handle up to 9 cells but I'm concerned with weight. The LIPoly batteries mentioned in this thread really sound interesting. On 7 cell NiCd's I'm pulling just over 10 amps static. What size and weight LiPoly cells would be required for this set up?

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