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New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

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Old 05-11-2013, 08:02 PM
  #26  
mikes68charger
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Thanks for the info


Can you post pics of how you put your lipos in this bird. With those big packs you must get good flight time


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Old 05-12-2013, 06:45 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Mike:

Sorry, I don't have the plane handy right now. I did the conversion for a friend and the plane is at his house. Basically, the batteries were mounted in front of the fan and up against the top of the fuse. My friend and I made some battery mounting plates out of 1/8" lite ply. They were "stood off" (sic) from the fuse with some 1/4" square spruce so that we could wrap a Velcro strap around the tray and the batteries. The ESC was mounted in front of the battery trays with the motor leads routed along the side of the fuse and then thru the fan "firewall" to the back of the fan. Access to install/remove the batteries was thru the cheater hole in the bottom of the fuse. I will try to get some photos of the battery install shortly.
Ed
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:03 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Thanks. Can't wate
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:19 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Gents,

I want to thank Ed (edwarda10pilot ) for stepping up and answering some of the questions in the thread. I hope everyone is doing well and putting some good flying time at the fields. I just got home last night and wanted to send a quick update on the ARSON fan progress.

We are very excited about the new design concept. The design consists of 15 separate blades instead of the old 18 blades concept, however the new design will drop inside the Byron Original fan shroud without any modifications. Currently we have two prototype units that we will be sent to Ed Valls for performance evaluation. I trust Ed will give us a no nonsense performance evaluation of the Arson fan.

I've attached a few pics of the new impeller design
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

A few more pics of the impeller with the Byron Original shroud.

Cheers
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Looks like a lot of clearance (maybe too much) between the fan and shroud?

Regards,
Bart
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:01 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets


ORIGINAL: b.bixel

Looks like a lot of clearance (maybe too much) between the fan and shroud?

Regards,
Bart
Bart:
It is just sitting in the shroud. I will mount the motor mount bracket and the motor when I get the unit.

Ed
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:08 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Ed,

Thank you again my friend. Bart to reiterate a bit more on your question the ARSON impeller is the same size as the original Byron and hurricane impeller. It was designed as a drop in replacement.

Cheers,

Joe
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:14 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: New ARSON 153mm EDF For Byron jets

Look forward to additional info on this, as I have Byron F-18 needing EDF setup so I can get it of my bench.
Roger Shook
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:25 PM
  #35  
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My G/M T-38,Tornado can use a new fans.!!
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:50 PM
  #36  
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Ed,
Those are good numbers!
Bob
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:52 PM
  #37  
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I hope this comes to fruit one of these days!! Making mold for my Byro F-18 inlets ducting, got the tailpipe ducting from Iron Bay. Will order the Jet Legend stabilizer mounts with integral servo mounts in a couple weeks when I get another check. Plane is coming together, gonna need a fan!!!
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:54 PM
  #38  
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Gentlemen,

A long overdue update on the preliminary test on the new ARSON Impeller. Please provide constructive criticism on the numbers being posted, . Ed (a10 pilot) has worked extremely hard to evaluate the impeller and we still have a lot of work ahead of us.

Disclaimer: If anyone post non productive comments and are trolling to get a reaction from other modelers don't bother posting because I will block you from the thread.



Test conducted by ED (A10 pilot)

ARSON MK 3 IMPELLER TEST
Byron Housing
Ambient temp is 44 degrees
MOTOR: Scorpion HK 5035-700Kv
CC 160 HV

12S Haiyin 5000 mAh 30-40C packs

Initial Startup:

Watts: 6555
Amps: 167.5
RPM: 16,626
Volts: 48.4

Stabilized (after about 30 seconds)

Watts: 6265
Amps: 167
RPM: 16,300
Volts: 37.4
Thrust: 17.5 lbs. (no inlet ring or tailpipe)


The tests run where logged data was at full throttle but only for about 30-45 seconds.

Will post the video shortly.

Ed if you would like to add additional information that I haven't posted please feel free to do so.

Cherie and I would like to wish each and everyone of you a very prosperous New Year.

Cheers,

Joe
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:18 PM
  #39  
edwarda10pilot
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Joe:
Thanks for posting the update.

All:
As Joe mentioned above this has been a labor of love and financed entirely by us (mostly Joe's money and a little of mine). We have been working on this for more than a year and progress has been slowed by funding, time to do drawings, some data crunching and finding the "right " machine shop that could/would help us and make parts that would fit our budget.

We are still working on the current draw and have some things in mind to lower the current but will wait to post the details until after we have a chance to test them on the bench. We have a test vehicle lined up and will do some testing when the weather gets a little better (warmer temps and lower winds). I did not post bench data but I have run this impeller up to 22K and it is absolutely smooth as can be. The impeller is designed such that the blades are removable/replaceable and are all "indexed" to a central hub. Our goal right now is to find the right KV for the impeller to try to get the best combination of current and performance. We have tried a couple of motors and the 500 KV seems to be the "right" one for the initial tests. When looking at the thrust, it may seem like it is not producing a lot of thrust in terms of the number of pounds of thrust but please remember that it puts out a TON of volume. The design of our setup allows me to change between the Arson impeller and the stock Byron 5 blade impeller by simply removing the impeller and replacing it with the next test article. This re-configurability will allow me to test fly the airplane with one impeller and then quickly change impellers and fly again. Additionally, we will have data logging as well as the eagle tree airspeed measurement system. We still have a ways to go so please be patient with us. More to come.

As Joe mentioned above, we welcome constructive input and will try to answer your questions.

Happy new year.
Ed

Last edited by edwarda10pilot; 12-31-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:45 PM
  #40  
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Any update on this project?

Thanks!
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:12 AM
  #41  
edwarda10pilot
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Originally Posted by JKEpps View Post
Any update on this project?

Thanks!
JK:

Joe and I are making slow progress. I will provide some performance info below but it is still not quite what we were hoping for and we are in the process of looking at a few changes. As has been mentioned here before, this is a "part time" effort and dependent on available time. Work has been slow as the "day jobs" are getting in the way but we are making progress. We are moving very slowly over the past few months but we will get there.


Arson 15 blade impeller on 12S
Power: 8005 watts initially/7500 stabilized
Amps: 170 initially/156 stabilized
RPM: 13,500 max
Thrust: 19 lbs. 2 oz. initially/ 18 lbs. 12 oz. stabilized
Efflux: 233 mph (no intake ring or exhaust tube)

Arson 9 blade impeller on 12S
Power:6500 watts stabilized
Amps: 159 stabilized
RPM: 14,500 max
Thrust: 16 lbs. 14 oz. stabilized
Efflux: 204 mph (no intake ring or exhaust tube

The current is a little higher than we had hoped for so we are looking a little different blade design to reduce the current draw. We have designed this rotor/impeller to be reconfigurable so that you can configure the impeller as either a 9 blade, 11 blade or 15 blade impeller. I have run the impeller in the 15 and 9 blade configuration and the spacers work very well. Simply remove some blades, insert the spacers, bolt the unit back together and you have an impeller with a different blade count.

One of the other things I have been doing is to try to design a couple of universal brackets that will allow a person to use different types of motors to be used with this impeller or with a stock Byron impeller. I have designed a couple of brackets to allow different types and size motors to bolt to the stock Byron shroud and hope to have one of the prototypes on hand shortly.

So, here is where we are. The prototype unit is running on the bench with a 500KV out runner and it runs well but we are exceeding the rated current and power for the motor. We have another motor that is rated for higher power, current and volts and we will run it as soon as I get an adapter fabricated for the unit. I have made contact with another motor manufacturer and they will custom wind an inrunner for us is we want them to. We may try one of their motors. What we are trying to do is to offer the modeling community a selection of different fan configurations and an appropriate motor for each of the impeller configurations and it just takes time to find, buy and test these different motor combinations.

If we choose to go to production with this blade design then we need to fund the molding costs and this is rather expensive. If we decide to try a different blade design then we need to have the new blade machined and tested.

I know that our progress seems about as slow as a glacier moving but we are just some modelers/hobbyist that are doing this as time and money allow. Neither Joe or I have any illusions about this being a money making endeavor. I think we would be happy if we just got our investment back out of the pieces we sell.

Thanks again to all of those that have been following this thread and we hope you continue to follow us.
Ed
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:27 PM
  #42  
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I think you should make an inlet lip for it at least, so you can run it the same as most other fan testers do, will make for better comparisons to other fans and give you a better idea of g/w and its potential thrust. From memory my 127mm fan is pushing 15.4lb thrust without an inlet lip on 12s at just over 100A, with an inlet lip its pushing 17lb at 110A. As I dont do much testing without a lip I dont have data lying around you can compare with.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:34 PM
  #43  
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Ed, thanks for the update. I'm new to EDF's and it's a fascinating area for me now. I love to build larger planes, as I was looking for larger fans. I hope you can successfully bring you solution to market.

-Jorden
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Extreme_RC View Post
I think you should make an inlet lip for it at least, so you can run it the same as most other fan testers do, will make for better comparisons to other fans and give you a better idea of g/w and its potential thrust. From memory my 127mm fan is pushing 15.4lb thrust without an inlet lip on 12s at just over 100A, with an inlet lip its pushing 17lb at 110A. As I dont do much testing without a lip I dont have data lying around you can compare with.

Question, why does an inlet ring make that much difference? What about if you're using an inlet duct? Should you still use an inlet ring, and bring the duct up to the outside diameter of the ring? Thanks!

-Jorden
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:05 PM
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The Byron Fan Has it own ring built in, as u can see in the picture. u will have to make a intake and make it sit flush with the in ring on the inside.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JKEpps View Post
Question, why does an inlet ring make that much difference? What about if you're using an inlet duct? Should you still use an inlet ring, and bring the duct up to the outside diameter of the ring? Thanks!
-Jorden
If you run a fan on the bench with a sharp edged housing lip you will have a huge amount of turbulence around the intake edge and the fan will starve of air, rpm increases as the fan is unloaded and the result is lower thrust and can be easily 30% down on smaller fans, with my 127mm fan I see around 15% drop on the bench. So most fan builders try to test with rounded lips at the front to smoothen the air out, you can hear a huge difference between a smooth inlet and a sharp one.

Inside your model its a different scenario, as your inlet ducting creates the smooth flow path to the fan, you want the ducting as clean and neat as possible right up to the fan and you want the intake lip at the entrance to the duct or ducts, IE the intakes should be rounded to obtain a smooth flow into the ducting.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by angelrcdesign View Post
The Byron Fan Has it own ring built in, as u can see in the picture. u will have to make a intake and make it sit flush with the in ring on the inside.
I can see it has a mounting lip, but doesnt look like much of a curved inlet, hard to see in the photos though and never seen a byron housing over here. If its a square lip without a smooth radius then the fan will likely not be showing you its true thrust potential. But if that is a rounded inlet then the figures quoted are not very good.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:48 PM
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The Byron fan has a 1/2" radius on the intake of the shroud.

Ed
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:42 AM
  #49  
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I was checking back here hoping to see some progress. I guess the project lost steam....

You guys really did need to use a rounded intake lip. You are kicking yourself in the shins without. Might have seen more encouraging numbers.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:38 PM
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John,

The project has been in a long hiatus, the performance of the prototype is encouraging. The last test runs we were getting an average of 21lbs at around 16k rpms, Research and Developing and testing a prototype is expensive and sometimes life tends to throw some curve balls and funds allocated for fun hobby projects have to be diverted.

I need to put the project back into priority and make time and build a Byron F-20 I have boxed in the garage, and test fly it.

Thanks again for the message.

Joe
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