Jet20

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I love the crusader! I'd love to build one some day...so many projects, too little time, haha! I don't think I ever got to see one of yours fly, but I do remember seeing a few around. Here's my Crusader's younger brother (A-7). This one is powered with a JetFan 90mm fan on 12 cells.

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

Gee Chris,

Yes, I have seen the video. I've watched every video you have on your site more times than I can count. I've read everything on your site about the same amount of times. And I am sure I am not done yet.

Absolutely love to watch you flying your F-14.

"YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY CHRIS" No doubt about it, You are becoming one of the great ones in this RC field already.

I am in the process of re-doing my wings. I am going to have full flaps and tailerons just like you and Castel suggest.

Being I am making the whole scale flap one piece now and only having a 8 channel radio, I don't think I am going to be able to have the flaps do anything but be flaps. The one thing I am concerned about is if my radio, and I can figure it out, to make my flaps lock out when my wings are retracted. Accidentally hitting that flap switch when the wings are retracted would not be pretty.

So I am headed in this direction now. However there is a nice thing about building my own F-14. At any time I can make changes if I need too and it is just more building.

Castel

Chris is the one with all the model F-14 experience . I hope you don't feel I'm hogging your thread, just hope the little insight I have can help. I did fly my smaller F-14 a couple of years ago with a DX-8 and did have the flaps work as flaperons with wings out, the only thing is that you would loose the independent nose wheel steering (that would require 9 channels). However since you have no rudders then it should work out perfectly with 8 just as I had it!

1-Throttle
2-Left taileron
3-Right taileron
4-Nose wheel steering
5-Retracts
6-Left Flap/spoiler
7-Right Flap/spoiler
8-Wing Sweep

I created two mixes per wing surface, one for spoiler function (up) and another for flap function (down). Now to avoid the potential damage of the flaps surfaces when up or down (as spoilers or flaps) I assigned the mixes to a single three-way switch. This is to me as KISS as it gets . I just posted this in the Freewing thread but thought it could be helpful to you with the DX8:

Switch position 0: wings closed
Switch-1: wings open
Switch-2: wings open, flaps down

The same switch adjusts DR/Expo and trims for each flight mode. In this way I'm avoiding any fancy programming to lock out flaps before wing sweep, etc. The 3 position switch has flaps down and wings swept in opposite ends, I have to consciously go through wings out/flaps up so that's my safety .

Ivan

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

OK, I am getting a little confused here. Am I doing the right thing?

I am re-building the wing and making the scale size flap of a F-14 all one unit. I will be having one servo to power it in the wing.

I will be installing a servo for each side of the taileron when I get there.

I thought the plan was to have full functioning flaps and just have the tailerons fly the aircraft.

From what I understand this is the way Castel has his Freewing F-14 set up. and he has fine control and sufficient roll with the wings extended by just using the tailerons and even goes to low rate on the tailerons for retracted wings and has sufficient roll rate there too.

I also understand that Chris has flown his F-14 in this configuration also. And it also flew very well.

My plan is to use the knob on my DX8 for the travel of the wings giving me the ability to set the wings wherever I want between retracted and extended. I am hopping I can program my radio to turn off the flaps whenever I move this knob away from full extended wings.

My question now is: Am I going to want to use these full length one piece scale flaps also as a flaperons?

Please remember that I am now 72 years old. I have very limited depth perception like most people my age. Although I used to fly pattern in competition and all that sort of stuff, I do not have the eyes for it anymore and do not fly like I used to be able to do. So all I am looking for is a F-14 that will fly nice and easy and do the standard type of maneuvers I do like rolls, loops, Cuban 8's, reverse Cuban 8's, vertical 8's. And my hardest maneuver is landing due to my loss of depth perception. I actually have to stand closer to the runway to compensate for this.

This getting old is not what it is cracked up to be. They are not really the "Golden Years" It is rust.

BTW: Don't any of you out there ever think you are posting too much on this thread. I value everyone of your post and please post as much as you want. No such thing as too many post or hogging this thread I have started here.

And I value every post you make. All of you.

And I am really hopping that Chris is going to read this last post of mine and help me make sure I am still on the right path.

Castel

The idea would be to use the flaps as spoilers, only during wings out configuration, to assist the roll of the airplane. Only one flap surface side goes up, as a spoiler, while the other stays fixed. This is how I'm flying mine and how Chris will do his DCU and what we say is more scale, since the real one has spoilers. You can check this quick video I made to show the setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH1QEn0Gma0 Chris will likely chine in

70 ragtop

My Feedback: (24)

George

Here is a video of a Jetmart F-14 with no control surfaces on the wings. Also attached is a link to the RCG DCU F-14 thread, there are a few videos, pictures and other info. Pretty much same size plane as you are building, There is some info on the plane in the video, and I want to say it is around 26-28 lbs with JF-120s on 12S, but don't quote me.

I think you will be fine with bare wings for the light weight option, especially at the projected weight you are shooting for. I think if you went with full span flaps, and wanted to add more roll authority later, you could easily mix the flaps to act as flaperons ( as long as they are hinged to allow some up travel). The flaperon mix to have them only come up to act as spoilers would also be easy. The key is obviously hinging them to allow up travel, something we typically don't do when hinging flaps

Plenty of help here to sort out the mixes when the time comes




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcXlcgBEpLw http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...271956&page=15

Jet20

My Feedback: (2)

George,

I think you will be fine using tailerons only. That is certainly the simplest option and I've flown a couple F-14s that way. Having the flaperons is nice to have, but the airplane does fly well tailerons only too. Since you will have the flap surfaces, you can always add the flaperon functionality later if you find that after flying the airplane you want a little higher roll rate.

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks a lot all of you. I see i am on the right path with all your help.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to program my radio. Not very good at that, never had a aircraft that needed it. But I do have instructions.

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

HI all,

I have finished re-building the wings. I now have the full scale flaps.



That took a little doing. LOL

Because of the size on these new control surfaces and what they now will be doing I also removed the Hitec HS-645MG servos and re-placed them with Hitec HS-7955TG servos.

Probably a little over kill but nothing wrong with that. Being they are programmable I was able to reverse one of them and place them in the space I had the other servos and did not have to relocate a control horn.

So that done, I am just back to tinkering on small things until this weather changes a little more. I do not like having to use this ISO resin in cold weather.

So tell me guys, What do you think of my wings?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

They definitely look exactly like wings....

Seriously, nice job

Castel

Those turned out great!!

70 ragtop

My Feedback: (24)

Looking good!
Now I have to say it, with your skill, and since you're waiting on weather anyways, why not add spoilers.
Easy to do using a carbon, or K&S shafts, with either G-10, or ply spoiler boards. Here's a couple pictures of how YA did them on the production planes. They are nice, but too heavy. The early planes used ply spoiler boards, and were much lighter.

Anyways, I plan of doing a set of light weight wings, and a set of scale wings whenever I get around to it, and I will be going carbon and G-10. The painted one is 1/10 scale, the green one is 1/9. Hope to update the gray one for this year's flying season, but we will see. Plan to give it new wings ( with 4 scale sized spoilers, vs 3 oversized ones), new fins and stabs, and update the fuse for EDF. Originally flown with twin Dynamaxs, and OS77s

Castel

It would be really cool to add spoilers Ragtop... To keep it light though, how would you attach the ply ones securely to a torque rod?

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

Yes I could do that. Not really a problem.

But , here is my thinking:

From what I understand from Chris Wolfe, Castel, and some of you other fine modelers out there, This F-14 will fly great with their recommended set up. So what is really the point of them other than for some highly advanced scale stuff.

Now from all the other info I can get by going to other threads, here and on that other site, These finished DCU F-14's and others which are the same size as the one I am building weigh in, when ready to fly, in the neighborhood of 28 pounds.

Now I see they fly quite well at that weight. I notice that some are having to go to larger fans and batteries or using the 10 cell 90mm fans. All with short flight times.

This weight does many things. Really hard on tires, really hard on anything but nice landings. Hard on gear, etc. etc. And it makes this size F-14 fly like it is very heavy for it's size

Now I know there are a lot of you out there who are laughing at me when I tell you that my F-14 is going to come in at around 15 pounds. I will tell you that I am going to have the last laugh. I am going to show you guys ways of construction and use of materials that I will bet most of you have never even seen or thought of before.

Already you see that these wings of mine have no aluminum brackets like most. Notice the plans for this Hobby Barn F-14 call for the whole area between the first two ribs to be built up out of solid lamination of ply and have aluminum on top of that. And all of this goes between "ONLY" the first two ribs. You will notice I changed the direction of the ply, went to 1/4" aviation ply, and spanned "4" of the ply ribs and tied into the spars.



Now I believe this will be as strong or stronger than the way it showed in the plans. I can tell you this, It sure is a lot lighter.

To put spoilers in the wings would not only require the added weight of them, but also the servos and stuff to operate them.

If I am anywhere near successful with my weight projection. I expect I will have a nice flying F-14, using 90mm fans with only 6 cells.

I may be proven wrong on some of this. It won't be the first time I scratch built a aircraft and it didn't come out as good as I wanted it to.

But I have fun.

BTW: I still thank you for your suggestions and really appreciate them. Like I have said before, I love all the help and advise I can get.

So please, keep doing it. Rather I use it or not, it is still appreciated.

And that sure is some fine work you are doing there.

Air Sally

very nice work ...looks plenty strong . and I like your pinned hinges ...those are not going to come out

70 ragtop

My Feedback: (24)

Hi George
If going for ultra light weight, I agree, less is more.

15 pounds is ambitious, no doubt about it. I know on the F-14s I have owned, the scale gear, and wing swing hardware are heavy. On the Yellow planes, the wood is really heavy as well. The glass fuse and flying surfaces are very light, its the hardware that runs the weight up. Running on 6S will be huge for keeping it light.


Hi Ivan
Lots of ways to do it PM me over on RCG

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

I am not a member on RC Groups. I think it would just be more forums than I can handle. LOL

But I do read the threads there.

I know a lot of you are on both these sites.

So I am hoping one of you can steer me in the right direction.



I pulled this shot off of a thread on F-14's on RC Group.

I do know of one place where I can get carbon fiber rods and tubes.

But circled in yellow here is a shot of a end for carbon fiber tubes.

Where do I get those?

I tried to find them on the net, but I have had no luck.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Here you go
http://www.radicalrc.com/category/3mm-Pushrods-477

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Andy, But I do not feel this is it. I notice they only go up to 3mm on their caps. I do not believe I will be comfortable with only 3mm carbon fiber rods.

I believe the ones shown in this photo are larger than that.

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

George,
These Central Hobbies carbon fiber rods/connectors not quite the same as you picture. They should do the trick.

Regards,
Bart

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

I figured they had other sizes, we just pointing you in the right direction.

Central Hobbies might have something as well though if memory serves, theirs go inside the pushrod with a barb.

Castel

I think I remember that picture from FlipFlop's conversion of the swing wing mechanism to servo actuated, it seems to be working well for the new owner of that DCU F-14.

I'm sure there has to be good quality CF rods threaded couplers out there and that other modelers have ways of doing this. I can share what I have done, I use a 4-40 or 6-32 steel full threaded rod and insert it inside a suitable CF tube. In that way I can adjust the length to what I need and fix the rod inside the tube with thin CA. I cap the ends of the CF tube with a short aluminum tube sleeve so that it doesn't shred under load, fixed again with CA. This is plenty strong for me, the picture attached shows what I'm trying to describe (from ron101 in rcgroups).

Also you might want to look into these, they are linear RC servos which seem to fit our need well. I intend to look into these for my DCU F-14, they seem to have enough force for this application.

http://www.firgelli.com/RC_linear_servos_s/1853.htm

George Miller

My Feedback: (1)

I thank you all for your help.

Castel, I have talked with the tech at "Fingelli" He tells me that SM is using them on their monster F-14 to move their wings. Boy! if it will move theirs, we will have no problems. LOL

My concern was the weight of them. The one they have which has 100mm of travel only weighs 2.6 ounces. Just about the same weight of the servo I was thinking about without the CF rods and terminals.

I expect I will be going this way.

pkoury

My Feedback: (7)

I built an RC Guys Pitts biplane for a friend and included in the hardware were those rod ends. A one piece metal cap with a threaded section. The cap slips over the carbon rod, not sure of the thread size. Maybe you could contact RC Guys for more information.

fly4food18

My Feedback: (15)

Any updates? This thread makes me want to get back into RC after a 9year vacation.