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GWs A10 EDf55's

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Old 04-09-2004, 07:06 PM
  #51  
dbl8ts
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Oops! Almost forgot.

I completed a new search regarding our beloved GWS A-10s and I found two links some of you may be interested in reading and movie threads you may wish to see. These are spring last year offerings, but in one video, the pilot actually takes a half step and with a gentle bowler's swing, launched his plane without a hitch - interesting landing though. Try these:

www.e-flightline.com/movie.htm
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=6

Enjoy!

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Old 04-09-2004, 08:05 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

ORIGINAL: dbl8ts

Hey A-10Flyer:

How about expanding your comments a bit more? [8D] I have been waiting to hear how your flights went with the new EDF55-300. I'm new to electric, so I do not know much about escs and the li-poly batteries. I know from your description that you have 3 wired in series, but what is the mah rating and voltage? I want to use li-polies, but there is not a comprehensive book I am aware of that assists those of us new to electrics with this information.

You appear to be well informed! Ever thought about writing that kind of book? If you or anyone else should decide to, don't use "For Dummies" [:@] anywhere in the book. We are not dumb; we are just new to the sport and trying to bring others into our hobby. We can read and understand plain language about a new and ever expanding new power source for our models.

I appreciate your posts, as well as those of others who have gone before me with the A-10. I ordered the 300H version which I should receive no later than Tuesday the 13th. Hope to hear from you before then.

dbl8ts
Hey dbl,

I appreciate the comments but trust me, I am a DUMMIE!! Really, I know very little about electrics. There are others here that know "books" more than me. Like you, I am low on the learning curve. I am using a 3S2P 2400 mah pack and so far the motors are still running. Just don't go 3S with the 50s.
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Old 04-09-2004, 09:38 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

dbl8,

Contact Hobby Lobby re the LiPol question. They're very helpful.
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Old 04-10-2004, 12:44 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

A-10 Flyr and Woody 51:

Thanks for the information. I'll give the 3S2P 2200 a chance when I receive the package. I have a mini Telemaste on the assembly board and found Hobby Lobby to be quite helpful.

I surfed another site earlier today and found streaming videos of successful GWS A-10 flights. Both were hand launched. In one video the pilot launched the thing as if launching a feather via a single step bowling release (his landing was unique also. Take note that most of this comes from online forums conducted in the spring of 2003. If you would like to check it out, visit:

www.e-flightline.com/movie.htm or
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=6

I don't remember which site it is, but there are two A-10s at one site, both with videos. Again, thanks for answering - believe me it helps.
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Old 04-10-2004, 04:13 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

it looks as all you guys have not seen what is going on with motors....
If you really want to fly... go brushless.... and it can be done with cd-rom convertions...and you gain 30% throust.... and loose 30 % weight on motors.. ok.. the ecs... is more expensive and you need two... but you will love it ...
You just have to look what Niels Polfliet from Belgium did in the thread ultra light cd-rom on steroids...
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:38 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Claus, for my dimes worth.

Although I would love to spend up big on my A-10 frankly, I'm not going to spend that sort of money or time on this kit.

I also have a couple of Alfa electrics, one flown for the 1st time a couple of weeks ago and the other for the 1st time yesterday.

Believe me, they are worth spending up on for brushless coversion, as I decided to do on my 1st one.

The 2nd, being an EDF, flew with the supplied Speed 300 and the performance was excellent. There are some issues with brushless conversion on this model (to do with the Fan Unit) that I still have to sort out, so it will stay Speed 300 powered for the time being.

I have another (The FW190 ) on order and will probably do the same for that when it comes.
The Flying Styro range of kits are also worth it.

The GWS A-10 doesn't fit into the same class in my opinion.

All I wanted when I ordered my A-10 upgrade kit , was to (finally) get a satisfactory performance increase from the model, with a mimimum of mucking around and as cheaply as possible. Hopefully I will get 12 months or so out of it. After that, I don't really care.
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:18 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Hi all,
The second one within a month period.
after reading a lot i decided to go on with Lipoly 3cells 1500ma and EDF 55 150.
Not to use weight for correct CG and to save my batteries in a future crash i build a foam slot int he noise.
Also bamboo stick added.
See attached photos.
Flight performance??
I hope it will be ready for the weekend.
BR
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Old 04-13-2004, 06:27 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

I'm from Spain.
I have my EDF55-300H kit on my hands, but I have some doubts before mounting the kit ...

I LIKE VERY MUCH your solution for the LiPoly compartment. I was asking myself how to do it, but you are the answer to my questions WELL DONE!!!

But one question: If the motors are up to 9.6v, how can you put them to work with LiPoly? 2S are underusing the motors and 3S will burn them in a few flights.
Do you know any electronic circuit that limit voltage to 9.6v? Can it be done? Anyone?

Another question I have is: You have to sand very well the nacelle-halves to reduce drag, and you have to glue the nacelle-halves (in pairs, of course). But, how can you change the motors in case they burnt? Do you have any happy solution like the battery compartment?

Thanks
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Old 04-13-2004, 09:03 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Dear A10Flyr:

Thanks for the clarification. Are you still using the Jeti with the EDF 55 set-up, or did you change to another controller? I noticed in some fall posts you exchanged with the guys at E-Flight that they were using two separate controllers in addition to some other expensive equipment. I'm like many others in that I just want to enjoy the plane, not wind up cooking and doing the dishes the rest of my life to regain the Mrs's favor. I already had to buy her a van to calm her down when I bought my bass boat and one of those big TVs when I re-entered remote control modeling four months ago. So, I don't want to burn up all my brownie points on one $83.00 model (I can get a lot more of these before reaching the amount I had to give for that oversized tube). Woody 51's comments to Clausxpf make good sense, and I agree with him 100% when it comes to the A-10 investment. I have a Telemaster 66 (.40) that has been on the building block for four years and a mini Telemaster (electric) on the building boards that is almost ready to cover. At $29.90, the Mrs. thinks she is ahead for a change, and I want to keep it that way.

Now that I have a good idea about what battery to use, I will now concentrate on the controller and how to wire the engines. (Is your wiring the same as the stock method or did you have to get creative?)

Again, I thank you for your posts. I have derived a lot of information from your trials and errors and look forward to any more information you can share. I'd say you know a whole lot about electrics. Each step you took after frying the 50s was logical and yielded success. By the way, no dummies here, just modelers doing what modelers do - trying to get um airborne and keep um there.

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Old 04-13-2004, 09:35 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

ORIGINAL: dbl8ts

Dear A10Flyr:

Thanks for the clarification. Are you still using the Jeti with the EDF 55 set-up, or did you change to another controller? I noticed in some fall posts you exchanged with the guys at E-Flight that they were using two separate controllers in addition to some other expensive equipment.

That wasn't me on e-flight. I used a Castle Creations controler

Woody 51's comments to Clausxpf make good sense, and I agree with him 100% when it comes to the A-10 investment.
Now that I have a good idea about what battery to use, I will now concentrate on the controller and how to wire the engines. (Is your wiring the same as the stock method or did you have to get creative?)

Yes my wireing IS stock.

Again, I thank you for your posts. I have derived a lot of information from your trials and errors and look forward to any more information you can share. I'd say you know a whole lot about electrics. Each step you took after frying the 50s was logical and yielded success. By the way, no dummies here, just modelers doing what modelers do - trying to get um airborne and keep um there.

Thanks. Don't forget the bamboo skewers! They work!

dbl8ts
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:50 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Hi,
With throttle management i hope to have lot of flights (if not crashed) with the stock motors.
In case of burned motor you have to find the small hole in the fan, open there a small hole for the allen key and unscrew the two allen screws. Then try to remove the impeller (it is very tight in the motor).
Two small screws and remove the motor.
Hope it helps.
I'll send photos
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Old 04-17-2004, 08:26 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Ready to fly!!!
setup:
3s1p 1500 Kokam
edf55 150
ICS400!! (hope to handle the 2 more volts from the specs)[X(]
weight 578 grams
thrust 300 grams approximately

I'll perform a test fly by tomorrow..
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Old 04-18-2004, 07:39 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Yes, finally it flies.
setup 1-2mm more movement at aileron and elevator (wrong was too sensitive)
with 80% throttle and a little trim up the plane still needs up to maintain attribute (i don't know why)
The fly time was up to 6 minutes.
The landing was too difficult.
At the end only cosmetic scratches and the landing system bended
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Old 04-19-2004, 08:24 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

sounds good, what was the wind like then?
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:16 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Hi,
Was calm, 2 to 3 mph.
I'll try again this weekend with CG 57 from 50 and better landing system.
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Old 04-20-2004, 03:27 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Hello, sorry to be a complete dunce (im new to this, and yes i have run searches) but i have a couple of question i hope you guys can help me with.
1. Is it a case of the larger the EDF motor number the larger it is, and if so do you need larger engine cover things (how technical) for large motors (i.e. 113mm)?
2. What is the difference between a brushless motor and a normal one other than double price?
3. I have a spare battery that i dont need for airsoft so will the GWS A-10 take it? It's a 8.4V 3000mah Nimh with a large conector.

Thanks!
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:23 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

ORIGINAL: markysharky

Hello, sorry to be a complete dunce (im new to this, and yes i have run searches) but i have a couple of question i hope you guys can help me with.

When it comes to new technology, no one is a dunce. I have been there, done that, and I am only a few steps past that.


1. Is it a case of the larger the EDF motor number the larger it is, and if so do you need larger engine cover things (how technical) for large motors (i.e. 113mm)?

Yes. The original configuration was an EDF-50 with a very small motor. However, the 50 represented the size of the shroud or motor housing. Thus, the EDF-55s are larger than the 50s. However, the 55s hold 150, 300, 350 and 370 class motors. Also, the nacelles (engine cover things) for the 55s are larger than the ones for the 50s.

2. What is the difference between a brushless motor and a normal one other than double price?

I cannot give you the technical specifics, but I know that the brushless generate more tork and negate the need for gearing your applications. Brushes wear out eventually and must be replaced where possible or you must buy a new motor. That is all I know about the difference, other than price, and it is as simple as I can make it.

3. I have a spare battery that i dont need for airsoft so will the GWS A-10 take it? It's a 8.4V 3000mah Nimh with a large conector.

Someone else can better answer this part of your question. I am just learning about batteries, and from what I have read, I prefer the Li-Poly approach. I do know from previous threads that the EDF-50s are power sensitive. Most modelers burn them up quickly. With those, you must follow the manufacturer's recommendation and not exceed X voltage. With the EDF-55 150s, I believe your current battery will work, provided it is not one used in model trucks/cars. A few modelers in this forum have run EDF-55 300s, 350, and 370s with 3S2P 2100-2400 mah Li-Poly batteries. So far, none have reported burning up and engine. Rather than run the full 11.1v through these motors, they use a voltmeter attached between the battery and ESC to run the engine up to the max. voltage allowed, 9.6v, and set their ATV so they do not risk burning up the motors. Again, this is what I have learned from previous threads by more knowledable electric modelers. In another forum, the CEO of GWS has endorsed using the 3S2P Li-Po set-up as long as you do not run full throttle for extended periods.

Thanks!

You are most welcome!
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Old 04-21-2004, 06:01 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

The battery you have will NOT work! It is way to big and heavy. They are sub-c cells and you need 2/3 A or AA depending on what motors you have.

A brushless motor is way more efficiant so you get more power and longer run-time. There is also no maintenance to do and no brushes to spark causing interferance.

We could help more if you told us exactly what motors , fans, esc etc that you have.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:21 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Thanks for the help people, at the moment I'm mainly speculating as i have to wait for a paycheck but i will be getting they EDF-55 version. Right so my one won't work, i take it that means the small version batteries will?
Also aren't Lipoly's the ones that are prone to randomly exploding? I know theres one type that does this but I'm not sure if it's this one?
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:41 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

ORIGINAL: markysharky

Thanks for the help people, at the moment I'm mainly speculating as i have to wait for a paycheck but i will be getting they EDF-55 version. Right so my one won't work, i take it that means the small version batteries will?
Also aren't Lipoly's the ones that are prone to randomly exploding?

In the beginning, these batteries were known to explode and/or catch fire when abused or overcharged (Lithium-Ion and Lithium Polymer alike). There is now a :fail safe" feature built into newer packs that greatly reduces the likelihood of explosion. However, these batteries should not be overcharged or charged at the wrong rate. Also, during charging, you must be near and continually monitor them. It is recommended that you remove the battery from its enclosure, and place it on a fireproof surface rather than a car fender or work bench.

Of the two battery types, the Li-Ions are notorious for exploding and catching fire. I believe the ions are no longer being sold. When weight is a factor in building a model, the Li-Pos are the best. They are lightweight and offer greater capacity, thus longer flying times with proper throttle management. I'm no expert, but this is what I have learned in the past two months of investigating Li-Po batteries and their application in electric models. I hope this helps.

dbl8ts


I know theres one type that does this but I'm not sure if it's this one?
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Old 04-24-2004, 08:25 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

One small question for the ducted fan gurus. How critical is the placement of the edf unit in the nacelle. My A-10 flies great, well it should with two brushless motors and a 2200 lipo. I installed the fans flush with the front of the nacelle instead of the original place. I did this primarily to help the CG. This way the battery balances out the plane perfectly in the original battery bay. I've heard that this decreases performance and that moving the fans back into the nacelle it would be better. So, how critical is it?
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Old 05-05-2004, 10:05 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Great Video. Does the A-10 have ailerons?
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Old 05-05-2004, 10:09 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

Do these A-10's have Rudder & Ailerons?
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Old 05-06-2004, 01:17 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

The GWS A-10s, regardless of motor, all have ailerons and elevator control. None have rudders, unless someone separated them on the twin tails and found a way to make them functional without making the bird any more tail heavy. Some removed the landing gears to lighten the plane while others are having success with balancing with the gear, but limited control after gaining speed on take-off or on landings.

I don't know what video you are referring to, but A-10Flyr has good footage of his A-10 somewhere in these forums.
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:46 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: GWs A10 EDf55's

I have read that it is a good idea to keep the exit pipe lengths short - maximum about equal to diameter. The idea is to keep up the thrust which depends on the flow rate. The losses in lengthening the exit will be greater than the gains by shortening the intake because they occur after the energy has been added by the fan.

As for how critical it is, I don't think it is easy to be precise, but I guess there is less optimisation possible with low power and electric systems than when you have the thermodynamics of a turbine or i.c. powered fan.

If you want real efficiency with a small electric motor I suppose you have to forget the aesthetics and go for a pusher prop, otherwise the best you can achieve is to keep a near straight and constant diameter tube with the fan not too far forward.

GWS figures show the efficiency of the fans (thrust per watt) is twice as great at the minimum quoted power than at the maximum their motors will stand. The minimum quoted power is probably not much use unless you just want to cruise gently or sustain a glider! Not for a jet warbird!

Has anyone got figures for the thrust and efficiency if you upgrade an EDF55 to a brushless? My guess is that the fan is probably optimised for about the power range of a 300 motor and if you are going to spend money on pushing the output then you get into an exponential price per unit of performance gained. Could be fun to try though, so don't be put off.

Jerry
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