carlrich

I wonder if an inexpensive inrunner could be used? The suggested motor is an outrunner at 3500Kv. Isn't that a bit much to spin a 66mm 3 blade fan? Is the fan too heavy for an inrunner? I wonder if something like a Waldera 3200Kv or an Art-tech 3800Kv would spin a fan just as well but at 1/2 the cost.
Unknowns:
weight of fan unit
mount arrangement / distance between holes (inrunners use mount pattern for GWS 350 gearbox)
How to mount fan to inrunner shaft. Out runner shaft diam. is 2.3mm, Inrunners both have 2.0mm shaft diam.
There must be some sort of prop adapter that comes with the fan unit.

Carl

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

I am new to electrics, but why would it not be possible to run 1 ESC at say 40-50 amp to power both motors? Is there an advantage to using two separate ESC (20 amp recommended)? Would this not be more practical to avoid an engine out situation? I am asking this to learn, since like I said this is a new experience for me. Also what would be the most practical li-po battery to use and where would be the best and economical location to purchase them?
Tommy

carlrich

Doc, yes it would be more practical and likely less expensive but everything I've read and the other two twin planes that I am building with brushless are all with two escs. As I understand it brushless motors have three wires so that info such as timing can be transmitted back to the esc and two motors would not be timed correctly by one esc. I hate to put incorrect info in a forum so I really hope someone else answers this question better than I. Maybe the best way to find out would be to call Castle Creations. They are among the best in quality and customer service. www.castlecreations.com
I spoke to them recently about a P-38 I'm setting up. Needless to say an esc is required for each motor. 4 motor plane must have 4 escs. Most people will also tell you that you must not power the receiver with two escs. The power line is the red line among the three small wires going from the esc to the receiver. You'll want a Y harness to connect both escs into the receiver but on one of the escs you will want to either pull the red wire out of the housing it is in or cut it so that both are not powering the receiver. HOWEVER, castle says that all of their escs can be put in parallel and run to the receiver without having to snip a power line. Other escs may or may not have this capability. Horizonhobby told me yesterday the eflite 20A esc was fine in parallel without snipping a line but the guy didn't sound like he knew for sure.
Now for the battery secret.
I've bought the expensive Thunder Powers and have not been unhappy with performance. I've bought Dymondmodelsports lipos and saved money but got a crappy battery with rotten performance. Then stumbled onto www.commonsenserc.com through one of the guys at our all electric club. The performance numbers they give are right on the money or conservative if anything. Their 3 cell 2100ma 15C packs perform identical to my Polyquest 2100ma 20C packs. Their best deal is a 3 cell pack at 2000 ma at 8C. It will truly put out 16Amps continuously and burst to 24A in between. Two of these packs are $42 ($21 ea). This is what I'll power this plane with.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Thanks Carl,
I was not aware of those issues, guess it is never too late to teach an old dog. Thanks for the info, I will speak with some of the people at Castle and see what else they can teach me.
Tommy

carlrich

Pbusa, can you tell me the thrust you are getting and the amp draw? Looking to try a couple of cheaper motors.

Carl

Sportflyr

My Feedback: (1)

My brother and I will be getting one. The real kicker is what E-Flite wants for those TP Li-Po's in their [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/RelatedParts.aspx?ProdID=EFL7000&Category=Completion+Guides&SubCategory=E-flite+Super+Airliner]recommended setup[/link]. They are $84.95 EACH!!! Any other manufacturers out there that make a cheaper comaparable Lipo?

In another respect, their brushless BL400 DF outrunner motors are such a steal at $109.99 for a twin pack.
$41.99 for ESC x2 isn't really that bad either.

I truly enjoy airplanes like this one that fly true to scale, especially on landings which is my favorite aspect
of airliners. I just love seeing all that weight gently touch the earth while listening to the power generated
by all that wing area in the the tip vortices. On calm days at the approach end of a runway you can hear and sometimes feel them...it's truly aerodynamics at it's best and most prodigious.

This plane will be a heck of a lot of fun and a real show stopper at the field. I'm sure keeping the
fans spooled up just enough for a soft touch down will be the real challenging (read fun) part of flying this
model.

Sportflyr

My Feedback: (1)

Oh I forgot to ask, what do you all think about a flaperon mix on this aircraft. I realize these are not full span
ailerons and that they are rather outboard on the wings. Would that possibly cause a tip-stall? And what
about mixing some rudder in with the flaperons to counteract for the inadvertant yaw generated by the downward
pointing aileron/flaperon?

The plane already seems to land realistically enough as is but for those with computer Tx's, this would really add
a whole new dimension.

Some thoughts on this would be appreciated.

carlrich

For the batteries, I'll be using www.Commonsencerc.com lipos. I have two of their 3 cell 2100mah 15 C packs and they perform true to the rating. Can honestly discharge at 30A until pack is dead and peak even higher. Around $60. They perform every bit as well as my Polyquest 3 cell 2100 20C packs. I would even try CSrc 2000mah 8C packs as they are really inexpensive. A pair of them $42! That's $21 each. I have 4 of them and can attest the 16Amp continuous is likely conservative.

Also I was thinking of running an inrunner motor on this plane. Have you seen the eflite motor? TINY. I think an inrunner could do the job easy. www.awlhobbies.com has a Walkera 3200 for $28. or an Art-tech 3800 for $35. I have one of each on gearboxes in other planes. Both capable of 18A without issue. www.raidentech has 30A esc for $23 and I use one of these with the Art-tech motor with no issues. 4 servos in that plane and it's a 3D ship.

Good luck with the plane and please let us know the Amp draw and thrust when you can.

Carl

Sportflyr

My Feedback: (1)

Carlrich,

You just made my day...Those are amazing prices!~ Thanks for the great links!

I have not been able to see the motors yet but, I will definitely consider the inrunners
you suggested and the Li-po's seem like a perfect alternative to the Airliner.
That will probably shave off about $200.00 off of the completed suggested setup
price of around $500.00 w/o Tx.

carlrich

I opened the box at the LHS (with permission) and did an inspection to make sure the inrunner would work. The out runner has a 2.3mm shaft and the inrunner has a 2mm shaft. The fan uses and eflite collet to attach to the 2.3mm shaft and can be replaced by the eflite 2mm collet part number EFL1920 for $3. This 2mm collet adapter is 1/8 inch too long but everything else is identical to the collet it is replacing. It is aluminum and an 1/8" should hack saw off easily. Sand off any jagged edges and you are in business.

I'm not sure whether to use the 3200 motor or the 3800 motor but I would think either should do the job very well.

Carl

heli143

My Feedback: (6)

I had to pick one up at the LHS after opening up the huge box.
The plane is beautiful and I look forward to getting it flying.

Jumbo747: is that foam 747 the Nikko version?
I found this on the net yesterday:

jumbo 747

no this is not nikko kit......... as this was from a co..thats closed now... hobbyflight...... well it was a pusher style........ i changed it to the 4 ducted fans cells and add servos and a 45 amp esc dueo and motors from estes. wheels and it flys great ..., ......... mine also is a boeing 747-200 ........... 48" body... 60" wings all foam.................thanks..

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

Guys,

E-flite just released a DF brushless park 400 for this thing.

AND....

You should check out www.vampowerpro.com for lipos.
They have a really hot 3cell 2250mAh lipo for around 60 bucks.
VamPowerBats rock...seriously. Great batteries. Ive been slowly converting my lipo stock over to them.

Flyfalcons

Those vampowerpro batteries look nice but the 2250 is only rated for a 12C discharge. I'm using Apex 2100 packs on my hot glider and now my 3DF F-14, and they are rated for 15C discharge and are tested for more than that. They are also 20% less expensive. I flew one in my 3DF SuperCap and it had big power compared with my (lighter) Falcon 1550.

Sportflyr

My Feedback: (1)

I really like the deals on the Apex packs, there a few online but the best one seems to be from these guys:

[link=http://www.rchover.com/inc/sdetail/48051]rchover.com[/link]

I noticed the Apex batts are 156 grams w/o connector which equals out to about 5.5 ozs. while
the recommended Thunder Power Pro Lites of the same capacity and discharge rate are 5.0 ozs.
and I believe that's w/connector.

The Tenergy 11.1 volt - 2100mAh 15C from Commonsencerc weigh in at 6.1 ozs.
I believe these are the packs that Carlrich mentioned earlier and please correct me sir
if I'm wrong.

[link=https://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=978]Tenergy Li-Po combo[/link]

Both great deals but at cost to weight savings.

From your views, how much of a loss in flight performance are we talking about, anything significant?

Flyfalcons

I have not flown the Tenergy or the E-Flight Airliner but the Apex packs are nice. The weight savings is something you would have to think about, for me a half ounce isn't a big deal. The deal at RCHover.com looks pretty good, a few bucks less than buying a pair of batteries where I normally get mine at Esprit.

mkranitz

My Feedback: (60)

Just reading the thread and wanted to comment that the E-flite product is a quality one, indeed. Guys used to inexpensive electric setups will have to re-adjust their glasses a bit when it comes to airliners. Just a different price strata given what it takes to keep the airliner shape in the air.

For a full build airliner that is built with fascinating engineering behind it (you can't destroy it, it's modular and key airframe components are bolted on with a design to separate on heavy impact, thus preventing a full destruction of your plane), check out this:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4388419]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4388419[/link]

The wings have a poly-carbonate wing coating making them virtually indestructable. Anyway, expect to pay a bit for this bird, but also expect heads to swivel at your field.

The Frontier bird in the thread above is MINE! Ian is building it for me and I'll have some video on the site when it arrives in the US.

Michael

carlrich

The weight is correct on the Tenergy packs. I get them from www.commonsenserc.com on sale for $46 each (2100mah 15C 3 cell). I also get the 8C 2000mah 3cells for $35 for two packs. What I like about these packs is that they truly will put out their C rating for the entire time they are flying. When comparing these to Polyquest 20C packs they perform identically (both 2100mah packs yet the CSrc are 15C rated). The 8C packs really put out and would likely be rated at 15C by any other maker. I say that because most of the other packs I have bought at expensive prices have not put out at the C rating suggested.

Carl

Sportflyr

My Feedback: (1)

Flyfalcons,

It's funny you mentioned Esprit models. I am located about twenty minutes away from that shop
and I had no idea...nice!

Hopefully this is the "esprit" you are talking about;

[link=http://www.espritmodel.com/]Esprit Model[/link]

He's a real nice (German I believe) fella and I saw him flying what I believe was the Stork
3m competition sailplane at the field one day. That sailplane is just absolutely incredible!!!![X(]
He could glide this thing slow for 30-40ft. about 3 feet off the ground without losing any altitude
and then power back on and go into an incredible completely vertical climb!!!! Truly
breathtaking to see such a large sailplane possess such a glide ratio and unlimited vertical like this one.

It's the only time I had met him and he informed me that he was opening his
own shop I just never knew what became of it well, I guess he was busy
with his shop.

Thanks for mentioning them Flyfalcons, guess I found my local electric flight shop now.

Flyfalcons

Yeah I went to college in Melbourne and if I knew about them I probably would have done some RC flying while there. Not sure if they were around when I was there, but it's a good shop. ZB helped me set up my Omei glider with a great power system, and now I have a blast flying it.

jumbo 747

here it is huh guys n girls we all have been looking at this nice bird airliner by E-FLITE well iam converting mine never even tryed it ......right from the box, build start i wanted 4 brushless motors and 4 fans so here it is my JUMBO 747 with the hump being made ..and will be put on to of the cab,, lo LOOK[X(][:-] 4 necells and 4 brushless motors batterys 1--[img][/img] 4200mah 11.1v and 2x 2100mah 11.1v--

OldFart1

Gotta fix the tail (and a few other fueslage items) to build a 747 out of a 777

jumbo 747

hi what is wrong with your tail >?? that you need to fix it.. as mine wont need work as the stock tail will work fine ..as far as foam breaking use kid gloves when building i reinforced the wing tips........ iam converting.. e-flite super airliner right out of the box. to 4 brushless motors 3800kv.[:-]

OldFart1

Nothing's wrong with my tail, I was just pointing out to you that to build a 747 from this kit will require more than adding 2 motors and a hump

The tail is drastically different between the 777 (what the E-Flite model actually is) and a 747. Lots of other differences too..

jumbo 747

hi i have looked at photos of the 747 and have found that thay have diffrent styles of tails so looks good i think as fas as my hump it being made,,iam no to tech on its looks JUST WANTED A 4 FAN BRUSHLESS SET IAM USEING 4 -- 20ESC AN 4 3800KV MOTORS BRUSHLESS.. AN 1 4200MAH,,,,,11.1V LIPO AND 2 --2100MAH 11.1V