Enterprise7

Hello world,
My first edf is an F-20 by Airpowernet.com.
I am pretty sure it's not a beginner model, but that is the reason I have a trainer who is going to help me with it.
Any tips? I have flown fast prop pattern planes before. I am on the level of knife edge limbo. I can do a full throttle knife edge maybe 7-10 feet off the ground in a straight line over the runway. I am guessing since it has a high wing loading, I need to approach and land sort of fast. The good thing about this plane, though, is that is has gear, so I won't rip one of the wings off because of one of the aileron control rods catching the ground.

Its top speed is supposedly somewhere around 120mph airspeed. It is only made for a 4S, but naturally, testosterone has dictated a need for a 5S1P.

Well, thanks for any responses. I will post pictures and possibly video later.

tIANci

Enterprise - that F20 looks nice, the video looks good too. Yeah some pics would be great. For me EDF planes fly a little different in that its a 'pusher' and you do not get any prop wash over the wings. They tend to want some power in turns if not it likes to lose some altitude. Other than that they fly like your average plane.

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

Enterprise, I looked at the specs for that fan and the combo set up they are selling. If you buy that fan set up, It will be very difficult to obtain that 120+ mark. Maybe going straight down in a dive..perhaps. 5s may do it. But just run way hot and pull some AMPS through that lousy motor they offer. If i could make a recommendation, I would buy the Jet from them only. I would buy a 70mm fan from JEPE.ORG with a mega 16-20-2 dyno balanced and ready to go. Then add a CC phoenix 60 esc. And some really light digi's. If you run this set up, 140mph++, EASILY on 4s with greater efficiency. 6 minutes of full throttle. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck!

DominicM

I fly my AFA F20 on Flightpower 5S3700, HET fan, Hyperion 80A OPTO ESC and HET 2W23 motor. Flies nice. Not ultra fast but good enough for me. As I've said on other forums the mylar intakes can get deformed on a high power 5S setup. You can solve the problem a bit by soaking with thin cyano. Static test to see the deformation and apply cyano accordingly. Let it dry first! I'm relatively new to EDF but this is my first medium fast EDF model. It's a good step on the way to a Jepe Pyranha which is where I am going next. My most recent video below showing the 5S setup. Before I spotted the mylar intake problem so not top power but still flew nice. Good luck. For the price it's the best EDF on the market.

( fastest pass at 3:43...can anyone use doppler to give approximate speed? )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRpn4AuwXx0

Just to add that using a ramp and a strong bungee is a MUST. Do not launch off grass or even contemplate a hand launch. If you want some proof here it is...I don't mind people learning my mistakes. All part of the learning process...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCxWwJflxj0

( Tianci will probably wet himself laughing when he sees this )

CTulanko

You can get around 110mph with the 4S setup and is keeps the bird lighter and more agile. The 2W20 motor and a good 60-80 amp ESC will do just fine.

Carl

tIANci

ditchit - there is something about you and bungee launches! Why was your plane pulling to the lwftMy worst bungee launch was with my UF Hawk, I was lazy and did not use a skid while attempting to launch on a dirt field, man, did it rip some stuff off the plane.

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

ditchit, sent you an email. I looked at the video again. that is an incorrect set up. and perhaps light cross wind? Either way , the rail launch got you in the air and thats what matters. And it looks good flying! Happy Flying!

ilsan

First flight for me today with my new AFA F-20. The flight last for 15 sec. and now its trash [:-]
I got the plane 20 meter in the air then it stalled out.
I didn’t get flying speed at all, there is more power in my wife’s hairdryer than this engine setup[&o]

So back to turbine engines for me!

tIANci

Oh man ... sorry to hear that, guess it needs more roll out and a shallower angle on lift off. I always keep my planes to about 10-15 degrees only unless its one of those Over Powered I Am Going Straight To Mars 3D planes.

ilsan

Well, I used almost 150 meter of runaway and the climbing angel was probably less than 10 degrees.
It really struggles to reach 20 meters and when I had to turn the plane back towards me it just stalled out.
The plane never got the speed needed for flying.

My setup was:

• AirPower OM480-2350Kv Out-runner Motor x 1
• AirPower AP700DF 70mm Ducted Fan Unit x 1
• AirPower 4s1p-2200-14.8V Battery x 1

It really sucks when this happens but this is a [:@] part of this hobby.
Regards Dag

CTulanko

islan,

Your power setup was way underpowered for the model...with the 4S setup you should have used a 3300rpm/v motor instead. You did not have enough thrust or battery to fly that model. Moreover, it appears their 3300rpm/v motor would most likely not hold up to the power levels of a 4S setup. That is taking into consideration that the AP fan is similar in performance to the Wemotec Minifan 480 or HET-RC 6904 fan.

I have recently stated this in another forum and will say it here. Please ask if you are new to EDF and we will try to help. There are several of us that are more than happy to help you become successful with your first EDF flights, kind of a pay it forward type deal. Some research or a simple question would have revealed to you that the AP F-20 is very similar to the HET-RC F-20, hence the power requirements would be the same. Most motors powering minifan models like these, such as the HET-RC 2W, Mega 2turn, Kontronic or Hackers are priced between $50-120. So, if you see a motor that is much cheaper, you will get what you pay for, which is most likely a power setup that cannot produce. Also note that Minifan models pull around 45 amps on a good 3S or 4S setup, which means you battery needs to be at least a 20C 2500 Lipo or larger...3300mah Lipos are the most common used in these performance models.

Another suggestion would be to purchase at minimum a wattmeter...this is an invaluable tool that can tell you immediately if your power setup is producing what it takes to fly a particular model. It's a small investment that is a must for your flightbox. islan, I hope you do not give up so quickly on EDF as they have their nitch and are very good performing aircraft and a real thrill to fly.

Carl

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

Sorry to hear about your crash. I only got bits of what you were attempting. But, from what lil I did read.... looks like a huge shortage of KV. I don't know the maker of the f-20 your flying, so not sure of the weight, ect.. but that motor is far from an EDF motor capable of the RPM needed to reach the fans efficient/productive range. Also an inrunner should be used. Its not low end torgue you need from an outrunner. Try looking into a Mega 16/20/2 run it on 4s 3300. should be in the ball park for that 70ml fan. I'm flying Jepe Jets with Mega Motors. My, Pyranha 160 MPH on 4s and the F16 180 MPH on 6s, both highly ballistic from the take off! These speeds are clocked on radar with 6-8 minute balls out flights. Would hate to see quit with your first attempted.

ilsan

Thanks for reply guys.

I bought the complete package from here: http://www.airpowernet.com/twe/produ...roducts_id=562

After what you are saying I got the wrong setup here.
I thought this was the appropriate setup for this plane after watching this video http://www.airpowernet.com/upload_im...uct/F20PRO.wmv

The motor, fan, battery and ESC are still OK after the crash. Which of them should I replace to get more power and from where can I buy it?
If you got any suggestions for a new EDF plane where I can use my 70mm setup please comment.

Maybe give the EDF a second chance

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

you need to replace the motor first. Many of trials have led me to the use of Mega Motors. Try them at megamotorusa.com. you want a 16/20/2 for that 70 mil. also, use a 60 amp. esc, ( Castle Creations Phoenix has good timing features for EDF's ) the mega WILL produce the most efficiency and handle much more than the "others" that typically just draw excesse amps and ceate more heat. dyno tests show this. for a jet try looking at rc-warbirds.com or jepe.org ... not sure you have prior high speed experience, but the jepe's are much faster than the HETS. the 2200 mah batts you have will run but not for along time. much shorter flights. 3300-3800 mah's seem to be what I see in the field and clubs on 70 mil jets. either way, let us know which route you go. glad to help out.

ilsan

I talk to mr. Dirk at Airpower today and confront him with the underpowered F-20 I got.
He said that he had sold 400 pcs of this aircraft and never got the feedback that it was underpowered.
So when I told him that I barely was able to take of on 150meter hard surface runway and stalled on climb out,
he reply with this:

We can't understand your accident reason

I reply:

It was underpowered!

He reply

Nope, It flies on the video on my site!

[:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]

What more can I say? It’s not easy to argue with person like that!

CTulanko

Islan,

I deal with foreigners all the time as they are are first level of server support; it can be difficult with a language barrier. I agree with stoneforcer on the setup though, you will need something to match the standard of a mega or HET-RC motor. Since you already have a 4S battery, you can simply purchase a second one to ge the power you need for a 4S setup; the single 4S 2500 is most likely borderline if it is 20C and will only offer a few minutes flight. A HET-RC 2W20 motor or Mega 16/20/2 as mentioned can be used with the 4S and as noted, this would require an ESC of at least 50amps or more at 4S power levels. Check out Markos at www-warbirds-rc.com for these items as he has them in stock and has great prices, as well as free shipping for everything. If you have any other questions, let us know. I have two of the HET-RC F-20's, which are most likely similar and I can assist through experience.

Best Regards,

Carl

elpipe

Hi,
I thought I would add my 2c here as I have owned two of these jets bought from Airpower. The combo that is sold by Airpower can indeed fly pushing about 350W with the setup. I have been able to fly it without landing gear and launched from a bungee. I will admit that its not the greatest performer but it does fly. You can probably get speeds up to 70 mph. I since upgraded to a HET2w-20 with a 3700mAh power pack on 4S and the difference is astounding. The jet really moves with some 700+ Watts and speeds up to 100 mph.

The combo that Airpower sells will get you in the air but the jet does not perform optimally and you will soon want to upgrade. For the price I think it is a fairly good combo but as Carl says you will feel the need to upgrade as soon as you start flying. I too had some accidents trying to get it into the air but once its up there it will fly. Dont give up on it.. do the upgrade and have fun flying.

Maurice

stoneenforcer

My Feedback: (23)

Thanks CTalanko. Hopefully, that advice is taken. elpipe, 350watts may be "flyable" for an experience pilot. however, the F-20 has a stall speed of around the 40+ mph mark. 70mph - 40 mph, leaves very little. next to nothing for a climb out and gosh forbid someone builds it a lil bit heavy. not to mention the upside down power to weight ratio which is an obvious flaw and IS a very poor " JET" performanec set up, in my opinion. I don't care what video he has posted, thats really means nothing. What you see fly and what Ilsan has flying is obviously blabablabla. This distributor/dealer, whatever they are, seem to have little knowledge when powering a jet. Maybe, they should check into the definition of jet like performance, since they seem to be confused with trainer high wing power plants. Ilsan, I greatly appreciate your feedback regarding your conversation with the manufacturer/dealer. Again, if you were to purchase a Mega 16-20-2 and say a CC Phoenix 60a esc, dont' foreget a UBEC, a new F20 would move well over 100 mph with authority. Just take off and point it straight up! Hands down the F20 gentlemen, is a high performace plane requiring a high performance set up/ power plant. 350 watts falls WWAAAYYYYY short of that. I'm not arguing and I hope I'm not sounding to harsh, but ignorance from a whoever selling that set up, you know the rest. Another MAJOR factor, with the power ratio being on the cusp, altitude plays a HUGE factor on whether or not it will fly. I noticed the geography difference with the posts above. Its actually time for me to go fly my Jepe F16. SWEEET! Later, gents and happy flying TTYL-R.