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If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

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its your responsibility to know what you're doing
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All money should be returned in the event this happens
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parts should be replace at the cost of shipping
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parts replaced for free, no shipping cost
8.33%
free repairs for up to a months time, shipping not included
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product fully returnable for full refund
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If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

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Old 10-19-2003, 07:14 PM
  #1  
RC-Captain
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Default If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

In my oppinion , using the hyper- fly helicopter I purchased as an example, I feel first of all ,if all of the information about the product or plane is not provided before purchasing ; such as difficulty in flying , wind condtions and so forth, and you are able to produce a condition or give a reason why you wrecked , which was'nt evident in the add or description which made you decide to by it , then the manufacturer should immediatly refund you the parts that were damaged in the wreck....
I beleive this will then make manufacturers give extreme details on the operation of there product.... ie. I didnt know the hyper-fly flew like an airplane, before I bought it, and they also sent me the video after I wrecked several times , Tower Hobbies a well know hobby company refused to give me anything to satisfy these problems I encountered .... I was really shocked and never bought anything from them again , except a glider kit, which never left the ground. When I bought the sky-vector from Americas Hobby Shop and could not fly it until the rep. tweek the plane , he gave me free wings and props because I told him,"I didnt see anywhere in the instruction to do what he did to tweek the plane . NOW THATS SERVICE ! Im just curious on how you guys and gals feel ...
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:03 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

First of all your questions are waaaaaay to perspective
if all of the information about the product or plane is not provided before purchasing
by who?? the maker? the importer? the shop? the guy that sells it??

such as difficulty in flying
dificulty for who?? how can anyone know what your experiance is.
wind condtions
again to subjective what is easy for one is way to hard for another, is the wind steady? gusting? changing direction??

then the manufacturer should immediatly refund you the parts that were damaged in the wreck....
Crap AND BS if you flew it in conditions that were beyond your capabilities WHY should anyone pay for your mistakes?

Tower Hobbies a well know hobby company refused to give me anything to satisfy these problems I encountered .... I was really shocked and never bought anything from them again , except a glider kit, which never left the ground. When I bought the sky-vector from Americas Hobby Shop and could not fly it until the rep. tweek the plane , he gave me free wings and props because I told him,"I didnt see anywhere in the instruction to do what he did to tweek the plane .
this lot is just drivel, you bought a chopper, plane, car, pair of shoes, ball point pen, etc, etc that was way beyond your capabilities and/or knowledge and you expect some one else to pick up the cost????

NOW THATS SERVICE
thats NOT service thats some poor schmuck busting his ass because his boss has some wingger on the phone that has no idea what he's doing


as usual these days people (you) wont take resposibility for the desicions and mistakes they make, all they (you) want is some one else to blame.
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Well said, Woodsy!
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:47 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

I can pretty much guess , woodsy , you are an experienced flyer so you dont give a rotten egg what happens to the newbes out here. If you took the time to read the poll you would notice I wrote quote : if all of the information about the product or plane is not provided before purchasing ; such as difficulty in flying , wind condtions and so forth, and you are able to produce a condition or give a reason why you wrecked , which was'nt evident in the add or description which made you decide to by it , then the manufacturer should immediatly refund you the parts that were damaged in the wreck.... , Now to my uderstanding this just *plane* english , fell free to ask me to interpret this if needed. also i wrote quote :I didnt know the hyper-fly flew like an airplane, before I bought it, and they also sent me the video after I wrecked several times: in my oppinion if a plane needs a video to show you how to fly it then it should be in the FREAKING BOX ! when I purchase it ......once again feel free to ask for me to interpret this ..............good day ........ and goofup i can see why you picked such a name , it explains everything,...........
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Old 10-20-2003, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

also to answer your question about seller vs manufacture responsibilty, it was just the way I worded because I have dealt with both ......America Hobby manufactures Megatech, Tower Hobbies sell different products from various manyfacturers, so who ever sells the product I feel assumes the responsibility.......via cotract or agreement

SOMTHING TO THINK ABOUT :

If you by a car and know how to drive but when you take it off the after purchasing it and cant stop at a red light because you went over 50 mph within the first 1000 miles and the seller neglected to tell you , I guess you would "say that is your fault, you should have had more knowledge about that particular car before purchasing it........:
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Old 10-20-2003, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

ORIGINAL: RC-FIEND
SOMTHING TO THINK ABOUT :

If you by a car and know how to drive but when you take it off the after purchasing it and cant stop at a red light because you went over 50 mph within the first 1000 miles and the seller neglected to tell you , I guess you would "say that is your fault, you should have had more knowledge about that particular car before purchasing it........:
Now take a 16 year old driver. This driver is of the nervous type of driver, but they do know how to drive.
Say they go out and buy a Corvette, or some such high performance car.
If that driver crashes the car, is it the manufacturers or the dealership's fault?

The key to our hobby is to do research on what you're thinking about buying. There is ample information online on most any model that's available.

Jason
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Hello, I just wanted to know what the tech did to fix your sky vector, I have done everything imaginable and it will not fly, it just goes straight to the ground in about 10 feet of travel, I have flown glo for over ten years and cant figure this piece of junk out, I bought it for my son and he is very dissappointed.

any help would be greatly appreciated.


Weskel
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

The whole issue is moot. Taking that HyperFly as the example, you yourself have videotaped proof that the helicopter flies. All the company has to do is point to that video and say, "See? It flies just fine. You must've done something wrong. You didn't follow the instructions. You don't have adequate skill to fly the airplane." They're the experts.

No company would ever agree to operate under the terms you propose anyway, so we wouldn't have ANYTHING to fly. This stuff about flying expertise requirements and weather conditions is purely subjective, too. Not a bit of it would hold up in court:

"For expert pilots only." How many people can objectively rate their own piloting skills? Well, I think I'm an expert since I only crashed my trainer twice last week.

"Experienced builders only." Hey, I put my Superstar EP RTF together. That was an experience, so I must be an experienced builder!

"Fly in calm or light winds only." Who carries a portable anemometer? What's "too windy?" I don't think it's too windy, the flag is only sticking straight out...
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Old 10-20-2003, 04:03 PM
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Default Nope

Do I want to pay for your learning mistakes every time I buy an airplane? Absolutely not. If you can't fly, take up golf or practice on a sim.

If "the manufacturer" is responsible when you "learn by crashing," that means they pass the cost on to me. Unacceptable.

You don't "get an airplane to fly" except by learning to fly it, including learning to set it up so it's flyable.
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Old 10-20-2003, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

i've been flying about 18months so I'm not a particularly experiance flier.

when i lay down my hard earned $$ for anything i do some research which is MUCH easier now we have the Net than it used to be flicking through mags.

If you rely on what some one selling you ANYTHING says, 9 out of 10 times you'll end up in tears, most sales people just want to get your money in there pocket (i know sad but true), especialy in a sales area like RC where for every 200 people who buy something probably 1 sticks with it as a repeat customer.

and if i buy a car that can only do 50 in the first 1000 miles i MAKE it MY business to know, i dont rely on some sales schmuck, there is no way i would trust any one with my families life let alone a car salesman
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

All points well taken , and appreciated , good and bad , but first the important thing , Hi Weskel , the best info I can give you on getting the sky vector to fly is to make sure you have the push rods set on beginning notches, then bending and shapping the push rods make sure the back elevators are a little bit less than parallel to the ground , meaning flap upward as if you are trying to gain height , then, into wind without motor on, take five swift steps and toss it , the vector should glide to the ground smoothly , if it turns , the elevators are not even. one ,more thing to understand is the main wing is shaped to give you lift according to how fast you go, so although they say toss it full throttle this is'nt, recommended from my experience, good luck.

now to answer the poll replies , I agree all research should be performed carefully before buying any plane. but............................................... ............................ Matt Kirsch I beleive I told you the tape came after I have flown the hyper-fly
and ............................. Jason Beach if a 16 year old kid crashes a car whether he knows how to drive or not then of course he is responsible , but if the crash was caused do to him not breaking in the clutch for 100 miles or so and the manufacturer neglected to tell him then the manufact. should definitly be responsible. You cant sell shoes without a sole and, because the purchasher didnt look at the bottom of the shoes , turn around and say you should have checked this before you left........shoes in the word itself means everything included , shoe string , sole, heel ,tounge, etc. So in my oppinion trainer airplane means give me all the information on the plane because Im inexperienced !

Mr Mike Ledbetter ...... what you are saying is just pathetic and the reason I use such strong words beacause if no one buys the planes, do to manufacturer defects or seller information neglect , the prices would hit the ROOF ! thats just good old supply and demand .......so with your theory you lose both ways ,so why not take the way you will benefit...... .>:-)

last but not least

Woodsy if cant depend on a sells person selling you somthing then you may as well be phsychic ! because I would say just about 99% of the things we buy we depend on someone giving us informations on the products that are puchased , so why not stand and make you get all of the info..... thats my only point , with this poll , thank you gentlmen for taking time to answer......
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Old 10-20-2003, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Yea, we need labels like this:

Warning: not for use by persons under 15.5 or over 76.3 years of age.
Difficulty Level: 23 out of 100.
Must be assembled according to included directions.
About 4.53 hours assembly required.
Warning: see bottom of box for tools required for assembly.
15 Study Hours of radio-controlled planes required.
Warning: video included is by professional pilot- your results may vary.
Must be flown by pilots with at least 14.5 hours of 3-channel flight time.
All batteries must be fully charged for proper operation.
Plane will not fly if batteries are depleted.
Do not fly in winds over 5.87 mph.
Do not fly above 100 feet or within 200 feet of any object above ground level.
Do not land in excess of 5 degrees of horizontal.
Will not fly correctly if CG is not per the manufacturer's instructions.
Warning: this plane may break if crashed.
Repairs are the responsibility of the pilot.
Warning: this plane may need trimming in order to fly correctly.
Warning: keep away from water.
Do not fly when raining, snowing, sleeting, lightning, hailing, or during other adverse weather conditions.
Do not fly in tempatures below 32 degrees or above 104 degrees.
Do not fly at night.
Proper operation is the responsibility of the pilot.
Warning: wings may break if subjected to excessive G-forces.
Warning: since final assembly is pilot responsibility, the manufacturer cannot guarantee flight.
Warning: plane may become uncontrollable due to excessive radio range, interference, or pilot error.
Warning: this plane will not hover, do 3D, go vertical, fly faster than 20.7 mph, slower than 4.3 mph, or do torque rolls. See instructions for designed flight specifications.
Warning: using different motors, batteries, gearing, props, etc. may adversly affect flight.
Warning: use non-recommended glues at your own risk.
Warning: plane may not always land right side up.
Warning: all crashes are considered pilot error.
Warning: plane may crash and break even if flown in recommended conditons by experienced pilots.
Warning: this plane will stall at slower speeds without warning.
Warning: flight times, motor and battery life, etc. may vary.
Warning: plane may not fly how you think it will.

Get real.

You wrecked it when you "produced a condition" which "wasn't evident in the ad or description" and now you expect the manfacturer to pay? You bought a hyper-fly and didn't even know how it flies first???

Who needs to stand up and make sure they get all the info?
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Old 10-20-2003, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

goof-ball or goofup you just stepped into DEEP WATER !
I have the exact add that tricked me into purchasing the hyperfly

Quote: Kyosho HyperFly 2 Channel Electric Helicopter

Have a heli up and running in just 4-6 hours ? Its not a pipe dream- its a HyperFly . Factory-built sections ensure rapid progress; a super-simple design enables it to climb,turn,loop-even hover into a head wind-using 2 channels where most other helis require 5 ! That means easier operation and less equipment expense. The HyperFly arrives with an installed AP29 motorand a 13.5-monute HyperFly Video full of tips for flight. Requires a 2-channel radio w/2 standard, micro or mini servos; HyperFly 7.2v or 8.4v ,1000 mAh NiCd battery pack and AC/DC Auto Charger. : UNQUOTE.........

now once again I didnt receive the video before I FLEW IT ! They argued me down about sending it.......also JUST WHERE THE HELL DOES IT SAY IT FLIES LIKE A FREAKING AIRPLANE !, also why even false advertise ,and compare this to a regular heli , This is why I deserve the free parts I destroyed when I first flew it........... and one more thing how do you research a rc craft without anyone to give you honest information........

P.S. they no longer sell this peice of chyt....and you wonder why ?
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Old 10-20-2003, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

First you say this is on the box
and a 13.5-monute HyperFly Video full of tips for flight
then you say
now once again I didnt receive the video before I FLEW IT
So my question is WHY didn't you ring the shop and get the video first???

also how could you expect a "helicopter" with no tail rotor to fly like a helicopter WITH a tail rotor??

especialy when the sales guff says "Achieves forward flight or hovering in a headwind without a tail rotor - by using air moving over a simple tail plate to stabilize the tail. "

it also says "Lifts off with a hand launch - lands like an airplane." et-al it flies like an aeroplane.

i entered "kyosho hyperfly" on a search engine and got 95 hits with heaps of information
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Old 10-20-2003, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

I didn't step into anything.... you did.

Deceptive advertising? Sure.

But the bottom line is I bet you ignored or never even read their instructions on how to fly this "helicopter". (Just what was the "condition" that caused the crash anyway?) If you had, you would've known what to expect before you let go of it.
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Old 10-20-2003, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

come on goof up if you remotely no anything about RC you know they give minimum information or instructons on how to fly or drive what ever Rc vehicle you purchase...


and woodsy I give up with you know so much, and its so easy, why did you even join the forums if everything is in plain freaking english ,,,,, right at this you are contridicting yourself , your saying,,,,,, LMAO , before you by any thing do research , well tell to the people who got hooked on smoking , and the people who switch to aspertame to avoid sugar and now both products causes cancer , please be reasonable with this topic , if you flow glow plane I hope you did some deep deep deep deep research on whether or not glow causes cancer or any other defects , because you will be the guy repeating exactly what im saying fighting for mis information....
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Old 10-20-2003, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

i entered "kyosho hyperfly" on a search engine and got 95 hits with heaps of information ,,,,,,,,,one of woodsy's quote

hey dude ,WOODSY, go to this link

http://www.kyosho.com/discontinued/kyoe0225.html

and tell me what kind of hits I need when the plane is discontiued after one year of purchase ,,,,,lmao
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Old 10-21-2003, 06:02 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

One more time:
1- How did the instructions say to fly it?
2- How did you try and fly it?
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Old 10-21-2003, 06:51 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Dont give up on me you posted a question/opinion/poll on an open forum and just because you dont seem to get the answer you want you start pointing the blame at me

(quote)please be reasonable with this topic , if you flow glow plane I hope you did some deep deep deep deep research on whether or not glow causes cancer or any other defects(quote)

actualy no not a lot of research but a bit, the castor in the fuel is Ok the methanol is not so good and the Nitro methane can be absorbed throught the skin and is bloody dangerous to your health, CA glues are also VERY nasty as is MEK and especialy MEKP when fiberglassing.

but hen the prob is dangerous to fingers as well...

the diferance is i accept the risk and cost and dont try to blame some one else.
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Old 10-21-2003, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

it depends if the plane is known to fly by the manufacturer and it doesnt fly for the owner cause of bad parts than yeah the parts should be replaced at no cost but if the plane is unknown to fly (highly unlikely) than its the buyers responsibilty

Gaz
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Old 10-21-2003, 08:47 AM
  #21  
Matt Kirsch
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Guys, I'm entertained, but as the moderator of this forum, I'm obligated to remind you to keep things civil and on topic. I don't wanna pull the plug, but I will if it gets too nasty, ok?

FIEND, my friend, I understand you did not receive the video until after the fact, but that still doesn't mean Kyosho can't point to the video and say, "Hey, this is a perfectly flyable machine." They designed it, you didn't. Don't you think the designers expertise might carry more weight than your emotional argument with a judge?

Manufacturer's product liability can only extend so far, else manufacturers won't manufacture anything. The problem with R/C is that it's very easy to prove that the customer misused the product, and nearly impossible that it's a design defect or heinous lack of information that caused the problem. There are too many variables involved, most of them subjective, based on one's perception and opinion, as I stated before.

Maybe they discontinued the HyperFly within a year of when you purchased it, but that doesn't mean anything. The HyperFly has been around for several years. My brother bought one when he was still in high school, almost 10 years ago. You could still buy them on Tower's website last year. For two morons that didn't have a lick of flying skill between them, we thought it flew pretty good. We could keep it up for 20-30 seconds at a time before the pilot would lose orientation, or the wind would take it too far down range. We'd break stuff, but we had fun.

Where was the Firebird XL back then???
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Old 10-21-2003, 10:25 AM
  #22  
Jason Beach
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

RC-FIEND, you do raise a few good points, but I still think it comes down to proper research. You said you did a search on the Hyperfly. Did you by chance do the search here on RCU? Here's what I got when I put Hyperfly into a search.
After reading through less than half of what the search brought up, it was mentioned numerous times that it doesn't fly like a heli, plus it generally doesn't fly well on the recomended battery pack and needs more cells.
With the information available online, there's no reason to buy a model without knowing anything about it unless it's either brand new, or unknown to the modeling world.

Jason
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Old 10-21-2003, 12:06 PM
  #23  
Scar
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Hey, RC-Fiend!

Where's your hobby shop? I want to buy ALL my stuff from YOU!!!!

(I'm gonna love that customer service policy you endorsed!)

Good luck,
Dave Olson
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Old 10-21-2003, 06:04 PM
  #24  
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Default RE: If you by an electric plane ,and cant get it to fly , should the manufacturer be responsible ?

Woodsy I didnt give up on you , I just know when to stop trying to convince some one of my veiw points....

Gazza: it seems like you are the only one who knows how to read between the lies,,,,,,oh I mean lines ....lol. thanks

Matt k. forgive me for using such a harsh analogy to prove my point , and in the future I will not use such words again to prove my points.

Mr beach : thanks for noticing the good points, and yes there was enough info. available before I bought the HyperFly, but only if I new about RC forums before I bought the plane/heli /car/boat/ufo,,,,,lol, then I would be 800 some odd dollars richer !

Last but not least , Scar: dude if I owned a hobby it would be ran with HONESTY and INTEGRITY,,,,, there would not be any questions to ask after you have purchased a plane or any other RC craft from me......and I would try my best to have personal trainers available, free of charge, upon purchasing any craft from my shop.....

so ill let you guys respond one more time then Im pulling the poll......thanks for you honest oppinions , I greatly appreciate them....
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Old 10-21-2003, 06:11 PM
  #25  
Mike Ledbetter
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Default RE: Mr. RC-Fiend

Mr Mike Ledbetter ...... what you are saying is just pathetic and the reason I use such strong words beacause if no one buys the planes, do to manufacturer defects or seller information neglect , the prices would hit the ROOF ! thats just good old supply and demand .......so with your theory you lose both ways ,so why not take the way you will benefit...... .>:-)
Umm, I'm not sure what you said or what you meant, but people who can fly ARE buying the planes and the prices do not include teaching you how not to turn a $300 helicopter into smoking rubble. That is "pathetic" only to you, and only because of your expectations that you would be flying like an angel on your first try. Good luck in this or your next hobby. Sorry for the "seller information neglect;" try getting a set of golf clubs with a guarantee that you'll make par on your first outing.

Regards to all.
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