md2b1dy

http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
The above is a link to the T Hawk.
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Produ...ductID=HBZ5500
This is the link to the Firebird II ST
I am considering both these planes as a begginner, they look very similar. I am looking for opinions from folks who may have actually flown one or the other. I am brand new to R/C and want my best chance at success.
I am also open to other suggestions but at the moment have fairly limited $$. I need something RTF (including remote) for 150 or less.
I realize the last statement really opens this up, but I have really searched these threads and haven't found the exact answers I am looking for.
Thanks in advance for everyones comments/suggestions.
Ron
This is an updated original post. I got my names and models confused, I meant to say the Firebird II ST, not the outlaw.

jatoo

I haven't flown or even seen the T-Hawk except for on the web page you have the link for there. I have flown the firebird outlaw.
The firebird outlaw has no control surfaces and completely relies on the two motors. This makes any aerobatics impossible, except for maybe a swoops or something like that. but nothing like a loop or tails slide. However it is extremely easy to fly and you would are very likely to be succesful with it, as long as you stay out of wind. The T hawk has elevator and rudder control, so you should be able to to things like loops, stall turns etc. And the elevator would also be helpful in getting out of sticky situations. I havn't flown it but I'm assuming it would be a bit harder to fly. But it is a beginner plane and as long as you fly without wind in an open space you should be just fine. You may also want to consider other planes from the hobbyzone range such as Firebird commander, or aerobird. the aerobird is harder to fly. It is my frst plane, and I had trouble getting the hang of flying (had to get a whole new body in the process). The aerobird along with all the hobbyzone planes have their radio gear on a circuit board which means that replacement radio gear is impossible and you'll need a whole new fueselage.

Some flying tips I have from my learning experience:
Fly with NO wind the first time you fly, there is usually little wind early in the morning.
Fly upwind of yourself.
Keep the sun behind you as much as possible
Even if you are flying above grass (as long as it's not too thick) leave your landing gear on, it can soften a crash or bad landing.
Fly where there is enough space.
Birds can hurt
Aways keep a cool head - it is the only thing that will get you out of a sticky situation

goofup

Read this:

[link=http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/Newbies.html]My Advice To Newbies[/link]

shams42

My Feedback: (1)

If you are looking to fly R/C, it seems like your choice might be between the Aerobird and the T Hawk. I personally wouldn't bother with the Firebird II. You can get the Aeorbird Challenger from rcboyz.com for $115 and probably a little cheaper elsewhere. I am pretty happy with my aerobird, but this T-Hawk sounds pretty cool also. The aerobird is a lot more responsive in "pro" mode. If you do get the t-hawk, definitely spring for the better radio. You want proportional throttle control.

Good luck, and you really can't go wrong with either plane. I'm off to fly my aerobird!

Matt

sargentw

Hey Goofup,

Your Newbie advice is great. I agree with everything, except if you had to have a starter plane for under $200 I'd go with the Sky Scooter Pro II with Servo city upgrades. I have all 3, the Moth, Stik, and Scooter. The Stik was hard for me and the self taught route because I didn't grasp COG concepts and kept shearing off props.

BTW: I was out last weekend flying slow sticks with 3 other people. One of them had a hacker brushless and Lipoly pack on his stick. Man you should have seen that stick fly. You can be an expert flyer like the guy I was flying with and you will still fly your stick, especially with it kicked up a notch.

I used to be excited and run for my aerobird too. I had such a bad experience overall that I sold my Aerobird(s) and including a gazillion parts.



Tad

Pimpwerx

My Feedback: (1)

I'll second the T-Hawk. Got one, love it. Been flying two days, beginner. First day was windy and crashed a couple of times. Could have kept going, but thought better of the wind. Second day was almost perfect. Quite stable, a good bit of fun, and cheap and sturdy. Can't go wrong with that combo. I'm not scouring the web for mod suggestions. Oh yeah, definitely get the proportional throttle. PEACE.

sargentw

Pimpwerx,

Congrats! You are flying in just 2 days and things are perfect. It took me 2 months to get to ok. You are very lucky.

New flyers must beware there are many "shills" lurking around the forum. They are often store owners and manufacturers reps that post replies praising planes that are absolute junk. They also operate under several different accounts.

My advice is to pay attention to flyers that have actually experienced different types of planes and provide specifics about their experiences. Maybe visit their websites. If experts have provided formal reviews in magazines and other media send them an email and get an insight on the product they are reviewing.

Tad

Pimpwerx

My Feedback: (1)

sargentw: Yeah, I'm lucky, but I also did a lot of research. Was originally gonna get an ARC Ready2, but went with a park flyer b/c they're so cheap. All the warnings people gave me for the gas trainer carried over. If people hadn't reinforced the degree of difficulty, I might not have been as mentally prepared for it. I think that's what helped me. That and I'm one of those GenXers that's been raised on a steady diet of video games, computers and RC cars. So if nothing else, the reflexes are still keen. Of course, flying the T-Hawk is a walk in the park, b/c it's slow, small and stable. With a gas trainer, I might very well be in tears now.

I agree with watching out for shills. Some people are just trying to sell you their wares. Always good to do the research and read multiple views on things. This forum is one of the best sources on the web for that. Giving the search utility a real workout. PEACE.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

As noted above, the T-Hawk is matched to the Aerobird, not to any of the Firebirds. The T and the Aerobird are both 3 channel planes.

I have an original Aerobird with 100+ flights and love it. The new Challenger is even better. We have 3 aerobirds and 3 Aerobird Challengers in our club. All fly great and all have survived many crashes caused by new pilots. Once you are skilled, the Aerobird Challenger is an amazing plane. Plus you have all the X-port options.

We have two T-Hawks in the club. Also a great first plane. Main drawback is that you can't get parts at the local hobby store. A big plus is that you can upgrade to a standard 72 mhz radio which the Aerobird can not normally do.

Both are good planes, but be sure to get the proportional throttle if you get the t-hawk.

Also, both planes can thermal pretty well. We are an electric and glider club and the T and the "birds" are often thermaled with the gliders, but be careful. They get pretty small pretty fast. We lost one recently because the pilot got it so high he lost sight of it.

You will enjoy either plane.

BTW, I also like the Sky Scooter Pro II. We have one of these in the club. I feel it is harder to fly for a new flyer, but it is more aerobatic, once you get the hang of it. It is not a good thermaling plane.

I would recommend the Aerobird Challenger due to low price, lots of features for the X-port and availablity of accesories at the local hobby store.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Plane Locators

I have been flying since March and have now approach 200 flights. However,
during my self training I learned how hard it can be to find a plane that has
landed in the woods, tall grass and other places where you can't see it. On
my second flight, I lost my Aerobird when a huge gust of wind carried it over
deep woods and I was too inexperienced to deal with it. Even though I was
certain I knew where it went down, after 8 hours of searching, I could not
find it. I bought another Aerobird and fly it often.

When I moved on to sailplanes in July, I started flying a Great Planes Spirit
2 Meter. Again, during my early learning phase, I got into trouble and it
went down into heavy woods and brush in a very hard to search area. I went
into the woods about fifty feet, trying to decide how to proceed when I heard
Beep Beep Beep. The plane was about 200 feet away in heavy tree growth. I
could not see it, but I could hear it. I had the plane located and out in 10
minutes. Believe me, where it had landed I likely would not have found it.

The difference was a little device you put in the plane that gets attached to
the receiver. If you turn off the transmitter, the thing starts beeping
loudly and you can hear it from quite a distance.

This is what I use in my Spirit Sailplane and my Electrajet park flyer. It is
called a Digi-Alarm
http://www.foamfly.com/customer/prod...&page=1&XCARTS

It hooks to any channel or it can share a channel with one of your servos. It
has the connector to pass through to the servo. This will work in any plane
with a 72 MHZ receiver. I have also tried the Hobbico Air Alert. It works
fine, but this is the one I recommend to everyone.

Low Voltage Watch

In addition to helping me find the plane, the Digi Alarm also monitors my
battery pack voltage and sounds an alarm if the pack voltage gets below a safe
level. This is especially valuable on my glider. If I catch a good thermal,
I could be in the air for over an hour, so a pack that tested good on the
ground could run low during the flight. The digi-alarm would warn me during
the flight.

Channel Conflict Test!

As a test to make sure no one is flying on my channel I turn on the receiver
only. If the device does not go into lost plane mode then someone else is on
my frequency. I may have just saved my plane, or someone else's.

Here is a review of another Emergency Locator Beacon that illustrates its
value (this site is somewhat unreliable)
http://webhome.idirect.com/~arrowmfg...s/elb-revi.htm


For 27mHZ planes like the Aerobird, Firebirds, e-Gull, etc

My Aerobird does not have a conventional receiver. The electronics and servos
are one integrated circuit board. There is no place to connect one of the
above locators. On the Aerobird I use a key ringer. www.keyringer.com One of
these goes on the plane and one stays in my pocket. If I am looking for the
plane, I click the one in my hand and the one on the plane
answers. It has an effective range of between 50 and 150 feet depending on
conditions. I have attached a photo so you can see how I mount it. It does
not seem to hurt the plane's performance. I use it mainly when it is windy
now, but I used to put it on for every flight.


Every plane I ever own will have some kind of locator and/or a battery monitor
from now on. Of course I could move it from plane to plane, but at $15-30 they are
cheap enough I can put one in every plane and forget it!

For really long range finds, measured in miles, there is the Walston system.
The plane unit is about $150 while the tracking unit is hundreds of dollars.
This is especially appropriate for purchase by sailplane clubs, where a
sailplane can cost $2000. A $150 transmitter is worth the cost.
http://www.texastimers.com/helpful_h.../wal_cover.htm

Many new pilots don't know about these devices. Perhaps you could include a
report in one of your columns, or consider this a letter to the editor and
include it in the letters section.

Procrastinator

My Feedback: (1)

aeajr
Here is a pictue of my buddies Great Planes Spirit 2 Meter.
I tried to get the Digi-Alarm, but I think they are out, because it won't let me put it into my cart.
Have you bought allot of stuff from this FOAM site?
[img][/img]

My batteries are charging, and soon, I shall be up there... AGAIN!
Check out our cool site at
http://groups.msn.com/HobbyzoneRCPla...Clubunofficial
Big Thanks form the Procrastinator

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Ouch!

That actually appears to be a Great Planes Spectra, judging from the motor and the monokote colors.

Looks like it can be fixed.

I purchased the digi alarm from the foam fly site, but that is all. If you can't get it there, try searching on digi alarm or digi-alarm. I seem to recall California Sailplanes had it also, but at a higher price.

sargentw

I heard they they were going to open a Scooter Crash web site, but no one had any bad news to report.

The SSP2 will fly circles around the Aerobird. The SSP2 uses much higher quality upgradeable components than the Aerobird for almost the same price.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I don't think I would argue with your points. The SSP2 is more aerobatic for sure. Won't fly as long on a charge and doesn't glide well, but many people would not care about that.

The use of standard components is a plus for the Scooter.

sargentw

I get about 15+ minutes on a 1600mah battery with moderate throttle management. I haven't checked the SSP2 flight time with my new Electrifly C20 ESC or a larger APC prop.

My Scooter seems to glide well if trimmed out properly and the COG is set just right. The Scooter responds to head winds and ridge lift and can turn fast enough to stay in them. Last August I hit some powerful noon thermals and the Scooter definitely went up & up. The SSP2 is not a sailplane for sure, but will respond to updrafts.

The SSP2 kinda flies like a Zagi. If you learn and get good using a Scooter, which is easy to do, your on to high speed Combat wings next.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the info on the Scooter. I will pass it along to my friend.

Always learning new things.

sargentw

And thank you for providing tons and tons of great flying tips and repair ideas!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I learn so much on these forums, I feel it is my responsibilty to help others in the same way that I have been helped.

If I do some research and learn something useful, I share it.

You are doing the same, I see.

cato47

Well, I've learned a bunch from this thread and others already. Like, "You would think I'd know better". I'm a high power rocketry guy and did lots of research brfore I started moving into bigger rockets and higher Cert levels. So what do I do when it came to R/C planes? I got caught up in the glitz and bought 3 Aerobird Challengers (me and the two boys) for Christmas. I guess that's newbie mistake #1. Now I do some research and figure we need a trainer before crash the more expensive planes. I got to this thresd because I thought the Firebird II ST would be a good trainer. Do to the layout, it "should" have similar flight characteristics (?). So that's my confession. With the follow on question: What's a good trainer specifically for the Aerobirds?

Cato47 (newbie to R/C)

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

No trainer needed. The Aerobird is an outstanding first plane for learning to fly. I started in March and that I what I used.

Ask away!

I have tons of info, tips and tricks, etc for the aerobird.